Red Sox (Crochet) vs Yankees (Yarbrough): 6/7/25, 7:35pm

[mvp 78]

15 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

You keep glossing over the word "maybe."

As a SP'er in '25- both with 7 GS:

Priester: 2.83 & .695 OPS Against

Dobbins: 4.21 & .765 OPSA 

I think "Maybe" is legit.

 

Priester isn’t a starter anymore. He comes in after an opener so those stats no longer count maybe?

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Priester isn’t a starter anymore. He comes in after an opener so those stats no longer count maybe?

Yeah, his last 2 outings were piggybacks.  But he pitched a total of 11 innings in them.  Over his last 6 outings he's pitched 32.1 and given up 9 ER.

[Bellhorn04]

Breslow has traded away starting pitchers 2 years in a row.  I think trading starting pitchers is a dubious proposition, full stop.  

[Old Red]

19 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, his last 2 outings were piggybacks.  But he pitched a total of 11 innings in them.  Over his last 6 outings he's pitched 32.1 and given up 9 ER.

Priester has pitched in 11 games this year, and only under 5 innings twice. 4.1, and 4.0. How many Red Sox pitchers outside of Cro Man can say that? 

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Priester has pitched in 11 games this year, and only under 5 innings twice. 4.1, and 4.0. How many Red Sox pitchers outside of Cro Man can say that? 

He'd be second on the Red Sox in innings pitched.

Our rotation after Crochet has brutal numbers.

Not seeing much magic from the Breslow & Bailey pitching lab right now.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

He'd be second on the Red Sox in innings pitched.

Our rotation after Crochet has brutal numbers.

Not seeing much magic from the Breslow & Bailey pitching lab right now.

Yea that trade didn’t make much sense.

[notin]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Priester has pitched in 11 games this year, and only under 5 innings twice. 4.1, and 4.0. How many Red Sox pitchers outside of Cro Man can say that? 

If Priester was here, Cora would never let that happen…

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, his last 2 outings were piggybacks.  But he pitched a total of 11 innings in them.  Over his last 6 outings he's pitched 32.1 and given up 9 ER.

He struggles vs LHB so now comes in after an opener. His k/bb rate is terrible.

[mvp 78]

57 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Yea that trade didn’t make much sense.

Wrong. For the pick, plus the prospects, it’s an overwhelming value.

[notin]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Breslow has traded away starting pitchers 2 years in a row.  I think trading starting pitchers is a dubious proposition, full stop.  

While I was vocally opposed to this trade from Day One, I think this is a silly overreaction. Largely it seems as though these criticisms come from a place impatience. And maybe frustration that the pitcher worked out at all?  The kid the Sox got might never work out, but that’s not the only possibility there either.  And remember, trades are not about ripping the other team off; they are supposed to benefit both sides.
 

Sale is one thing, but I remember some folks being upset about dealing Kason Gabbard over Jon Lester. I think in time we will see more about Quinn Priester.  He might be a tough loss, but he also might be a Fungibles long reliever outperforming expectations solely due to beneficial usage.  Or he might just suck next year…

[mvp 78]

The trade was Priester for 33rd pick, Yophery and Holobetz (last year 5th rounder).

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Wrong. For the pick, plus the prospects, it’s an overwhelming value.

It’s not wrong if you only care about what’s happening now, and right now the Red Sox are having trouble with starters being able to go 5 innings. Picks, and suspects wouldn’t help right now. As Cora would ask right?

[notin]

33 minutes ago, Old Red said:

It’s not wrong if you only care about what’s happening now, and right now the Red Sox are having trouble with starters being able to go 5 innings. Picks, and suspects wouldn’t help right now. As Cora would ask right?

The job of the front office is to care about more than whats happening now….

[Bellhorn04]

49 minutes ago, notin said:

While I was vocally opposed to this trade from Day One, I think this is a silly overreaction. Largely it seems as though these criticisms come from a place impatience. And maybe frustration that the pitcher worked out at all?  The kid the Sox got might never work out, but that’s not the only possibility there either.  And remember, trades are not about ripping the other team off; they are supposed to benefit both sides.
 

Sale is one thing, but I remember some folks being upset about dealing Kason Gabbard over Jon Lester. I think in time we will see more about Quinn Priester.  He might be a tough loss, but he also might be a Fungibles long reliever outperforming expectations solely due to beneficial usage.  Or he might just suck next year…

So you were opposed but I'm silly and overreacting.  Yeah, that makes perfect sense.  🙄

I think trading MLB ready starting pitchers is a bad idea period, unless maybe you're the Pirates or the Marlins and you can't afford to keep them.

Because there's no such thing as a surplus of them.

 

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

The job of the front office is to care about more than whats happening now….

That’s why the Red Sox are heading into their 4th year in a row of not making the postseason. Got it.🤭🙈

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

That’s why the Red Sox are heading into their 4th year in a row of not making the postseason. Got it.🤭🙈

Yeah, it's not a great time to be telling us how the Red Sox are doing things the right way.

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

He struggles vs LHB so now comes in after an opener. His k/bb rate is terrible.

As a strategic question, how does coming in in the 4th inning help the struggles vs. lefties?

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, it's not a great time to be telling us how the Red Sox are doing things the right way.

Not unless you like the status quo.

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Not unless you like the status quo.

Yeah, I can't get enough fire sale talk in May and June of every year.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, I can't get enough fire sale talk in May and June of every year.

Actually it’s started later this year. It wasn’t that long ago it started before the season even started.

[notin]

27 minutes ago, Old Red said:

That’s why the Red Sox are heading into their 4th year in a row of not making the postseason. Got it.🤭🙈

It did help us keep Campbell, Anthony and Mayer.  

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Breslow has traded away starting pitchers 2 years in a row.  I think trading starting pitchers is a dubious proposition, full stop.  

Okay, but he also traded for Crochet & Fitts, as well as some far away pitching prospects.

[notin]

20 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

As a strategic question, how does coming in in the 4th inning help the struggles vs. lefties?

It doesn’t, but it does give him more exposure to the weaker parts of the lineup.  The whole purpose of the opener strategy is to use a good reliever against the opposing better hitters rather than wait and use them against whoever is due up next…

[Bellhorn04]

11 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Okay, but he also traded for Crochet & Fitts, as well as some far away pitching prospects.

I agree.  I still don't like trading away starters.  Priester would be second on our team in innings pitched right now.  That does not please me.  

This wouldn't be such a topic if it wasn't for the fact that the rest of our rotation, outside Crochet, has been bad, injured or both.  

Maybe Bailey is the real problem.

I don't know.  But something's wrong about the way they're doing things.  We're into a fourth year of abject failure.

[Old Red]

15 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Okay, but he also traded for Crochet & Fitts, as well as some far away pitching prospects.

He also signed Gio, and traded away Sale last year like the Red Sox had all kinds of pitching depth, which is the main point here. Priester wouldn’t have been a team savior, but someone who can actually pitch five innings would be like gold around here these days.

[Maxbialystock]

1 hour ago, notin said:

While I was vocally opposed to this trade from Day One, I think this is a silly overreaction. Largely it seems as though these criticisms come from a place impatience. And maybe frustration that the pitcher worked out at all?  The kid the Sox got might never work out, but that’s not the only possibility there either.  And remember, trades are not about ripping the other team off; they are supposed to benefit both sides.
 

Sale is one thing, but I remember some folks being upset about dealing Kason Gabbard over Jon Lester. I think in time we will see more about Quinn Priester.  He might be a tough loss, but he also might be a Fungibles long reliever outperforming expectations solely due to beneficial usage.  Or he might just suck next year…

Right off the top of my old bald head, I'd say dumping Sale and picking up Giolito are the primary reasons why the Sox didn't make the postseason last year and probably won't this year. 

I've heard all the explanations and excuses, but the fact is that the Braves made Breslow look like an idiot, especially paying Sale's salary when he played for the Braves last season.  Sale is doing pretty well this season--better than anyone on the Sox not named Crochet--but is probably not in the Cy Young hunt.  

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Right off the top of my old bald head, I'd say dumping Sale and picking up Giolito are the primary reasons why the Sox didn't make the postseason last year and probably won't this year. 

I've heard all the explanations and excuses, but the fact is that the Braves made Breslow look like an idiot, especially paying Sale's salary when he played for the Braves last season.  Sale is doing pretty well this season--better than anyone on the Sox not named Crochet--but is probably not in the Cy Young hunt.  

Right again Max!👍👍👍

[notin]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

So you were opposed but I'm silly and overreacting.  Yeah, that makes perfect sense.  🙄

I think trading MLB ready starting pitchers is a bad idea period, unless maybe you're the Pirates or the Marlins and you can't afford to keep them.

Because there's no such thing as a surplus of them.

 

I had some faith in Priester at the time.  I didn’t question the entire practice of trading SP simply because the Sox dealt a pitcher with a 5.16 ERA as a starter for a prospect with some promise.

Not to mention Priester isnt even starting in Milwaukee, plus Pitt -a team that cannot afford to retain good SP - did deal him for Nick Yorke long before arbitration became an issue.  And Theres the whole question about the Sox coaching staff.  If they really are the source of problems, wouldn’t Priester suffer from those as well?  And of course the defense behind him.

Priester seems pretty Fungibles to me right now.  I can wait and see how Yophery does before I call this deal into question…

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I agree.  I still don't like trading away starters.  Priester would be second on our team in innings pitched right now.  That does not please me.  

This wouldn't be such a topic if it wasn't for the fact that the rest of our rotation, outside Crochet, has been bad, injured or both.  

Maybe Bailey is the real problem.

I don't know.  But something's wrong about the way they're doing things.  We're into a fourth year of abject failure.

In hindsight the Priester trade looks not so good, as of now, but he has been doing worse, of late, and we got two good prospects, one a pitcher plus the 33rd pick in the draft for a guy that was one of about okay, decent or having some promise 10-11 SP'ers we had on our depth chart before his trade.

In general, I agree: trading any promising pitcher is not a good idea. When the top name we got back is an OF'er, it looks even more suspect. I will say, I will not be surprised in 2-3 years, if we look back and call this trade "genius."

I'm as pissed as everyone about the 4 years and 6 out of 7, too. Even 2021 was no feather in top management's cap. The signings before that season mostly sucked. We only won on the remnants of the 2018 team and a confluence of better health, peaking vets and career or near career years by several players. (I won't mention Cora's role. Ooops, I just did!)

Personally, this past winter was the first one in many years, where I felt we did a good job filling almost all of the major flaws in our roster. The one I think we fell short of was the closer role, and I was wrong on that. I would feel I'd be contradictory, if I now bashed management for doing what I felt was right. I'm not saying what they did was right, and sometimes good moves just don't work out. I thought Buehler was an overpay, but he was a better gamble than guys like Kluber, Richards and Martin Perez were. The Bregman deal broke the stretch of mizerness. His injury was unfortunate, but not a "wrong move."

The remnants of the 2024 signings: Gio and Hendriks bit us in the ass, and that's on Brez & Co., but we did start the season with the best ML ready SP'er depth I've seen the Sox have, perhaps in the 50+ years of my Sox fandom.

Crochet, Houck, Buehler, Bello, Crawford, Giolito (Sandoval in August?)

Fitts, Dobbins, Criswell, Whitlock, Winckowski, Newcomb

Granted, not all these guys were household names, but these are 13 pitchers after the Priester trade. Okay, throw out Newcomb, Whitlock (pen) and Wink (Pen & doghouse,) and we still have 10 guys for 5 slots. 

I can't blame Brez for Houck sucking. (I'm not sure Bailey is to blame, either, and I guess Brez hired Bailey, so...) Brez is to blame for Gio & Buehler, yes, although both did hold some level of promise. Crawford's injury is not on Brez, but I do think he planned well on having the depth needed to cover 1-2 rotation injuries, at any given time.

Ultimately, the GM gets the blame for a team failing, and Brez is no different. For right or wrong, the team he built is failing. He's made a lot of changes in just 2 years, so in many ways this is "his team," already. Bloom's curse is still present, but Brez was handed a top farm system to use as he wished, and he was also recently handed a budget Bloom never saw, and even DD was denied in 2019.

I am far from the "clean house" claims some are making. We tried that 2 years ago (except for keeping Cora.) Maybe, last nights win will be the spark we need, but I think I've thought or said that a dozen times, already this year.

We have some very serious flaws with no easy in system fixes on the horizon, except for MAYBE Bregman's return and a possible boost from Sandoval (or even Crawford or Houck,) but I'm dead tired of these type of hopes we've seen dashed year-after-year.

The waiting is certainly the hardest part.

[moonslav59]

27 minutes ago, Old Red said:

He also signed Gio, and traded away Sale last year like the Red Sox had all kinds of pitching depth, which is the main point here. Priester wouldn’t have been a team savior, but someone who can actually pitch five innings would be like gold around here these days.

Wow, I forgot he did that. Thanks for reminding me.

Remind me of the poster who said the worst part of the Sale deal was the money included.