Red Sox (Bello) vs Brewers (Peralta): 5/28/25, 1:10pm

[mvp 78]

17 minutes ago, Jasonbay44 said:

Literally the exact opposite.

If you get an excellent jump for a ball that a normal third basemen doesn’t get to and bounce throw to first and 1B doesn’t pick it. That’s a throwing error. Devers has no range and makes throwing errors 

Right, probably on the move or just further from the base and simply making a tougher throw as the ball isn't right at him. Agreed. The throw on a more difficult ball to reach is automatically going to be more difficult to make. It's a compounding problem.  

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

8 minutes ago, Jasonbay44 said:

How is that a contradiction? It’s a throwing error. Nolan Arenado made 17 errors in a season while leading 3B in assists, putouts, DWAR and won Gold glove. Guys who get to more balls, have more chances, and sometimes make an error attempting the exceptional on plays most guys don’t get too. 2024 Elly De La Cruz is a perfect example. 

I misunderstood your post.

I took it as guys that get to more balls make more throwing errors and then you pointed out that devers doesn't get to many and makes throwing errors.

[Bellhorn04]

57 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Swing and a miss.

I take many different measures into account, but I don't dismiss the old school metrics all together either.

So why do you just keep citing his errors and fielding % over and over with zero mention of the other measures.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

So why do you just keep citing his errors and fielding % over and over with zero mention of the other measures.

Swing and a miss, strike two.

I mentioned them once, hardly "over and over"

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Swing and a miss, strike two.

I mentioned them once, hardly "over and over"

Once.  Yeah right.  

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Once.  Yeah right.  

Well, go back and read the thread, pretty simple.

[Bellhorn04]

12 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Well, go back and read the thread, pretty simple.

Um, this isn't the only thread you posted about it in, pretty simple.

Now it should be crickets time. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Um, this isn't the only thread you posted about it in, pretty simple.

I don't recall mentioning his errors or fielding percentage on any other thread.

Care to point out where?

[Bellhorn04]

4 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

I don't recall mentioning his errors or fielding percentage on any other thread.

Care to point out where?

 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

 

Ah, so mentioning it twice is "over and over"?

Gimme a break, there's plenty of things in here that have been beaten to death and you almost never call anyone out on it.

But, yeah, it's not personal.

Smh.

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Ah, so mentioning it twice is "over and over"?

Gimme a break, there's plenty of things in here that have been beaten to death and you almost never call anyone out on it.

But, yeah, it's not personal.

Smh.

So you were wrong but it's my fault, got it. 

As for the rest, you are really sensitive when it comes down to it.  You try to pull out the victim card when things aren't going your way.

It's not my fault you've a multiple banned poster who gets attention from the mods. 

You need to take a look in the mirror for once.

[Maxbialystock]

14 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Not really, bregman was tied for the 3rd most errors and had a .966 fielding %

Sounds awful if you are completely ignorant about percentages.  

If by some strange happenstance you aren't ignorant, you would realize there ain't a lot of difference between Bregman's 97% fielding percentage and an impossible to achieve (for thirdbasemen) 100% fielding percentage.  Actually, Clement of Toronto has the highest at .986, which rounds off to 99%.  He was just 1 error to Bregman's 5.  

Consequently, the only way to "measure" fielding prowess is to look at range, difficulty, etc.  They are all important.  And that's why Bregman's DWAR is +0.8, which is tied for 3d best among MLB thirdbasemen.  

The same thing applies to team defensive stats.  Right now the Sox with their 46 errors have an absolutely abysmal fielding percentage of 98%.  That's right--go look it up.  And the pristine, wonderful fielding percentage of the Rangers is 99%.  That's a 1% difference between the best team in MLB and the worst. 

So the only want to measure real team fielding prowess is to dig into the details of each and every player.   A quick and dirty version of that is to check, position by position, the DWAR's of the Sox players.  

Right now Narvaez leads all MLB catchers with a 1.0 DWAR.  Ditto Abreu in RF with 0.8.  Ditto Rafaela with 1.3 in CF.  In LF Duran is treading water at 0.0.  Same goes for Story at SS, 0.0.  Kristian Campbell is underwater with -0.7.  Ditto Casas at 1b, -0.6, also Toro, -0.4, and even Gonzalez, -0.2.  

A rough assessment of those Sox DWAR's is that the outfield and catcher are well above average and the infield well below, especially with Bregman out.  

[mvp 78]

Is this week three of fielding percentages talk? What have we become? 

😣

[drewski6]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Is this week three of fielding percentages talk? What have we become? 

😣

Lets dust off the "is wins the be-all end-all stat for pitchers?" debate next

(lets not)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

18 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Is this week three of fielding percentages talk? What have we become? 

😣

Dogs that resemble their humans.

Edit, as Red Sox fans: posters that resemble their dogs.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

6 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Sounds awful if you are completely ignorant about percentages.  

If by some strange happenstance you aren't ignorant, you would realize there ain't a lot of difference between Bregman's 97% fielding percentage and an impossible to achieve (for thirdbasemen) 100% fielding percentage.  Actually, Clement of Toronto has the highest at .986, which rounds off to 99%.  He was just 1 error to Bregman's 5.  

Consequently, the only way to "measure" fielding prowess is to look at range, difficulty, etc.  They are all important.  And that's why Bregman's DWAR is +0.8, which is tied for 3d best among MLB thirdbasemen.  

The same thing applies to team defensive stats.  Right now the Sox with their 46 errors have an absolutely abysmal fielding percentage of 98%.  That's right--go look it up.  And the pristine, wonderful fielding percentage of the Rangers is 99%.  That's a 1% difference between the best team in MLB and the worst. 

So the only want to measure real team fielding prowess is to dig into the details of each and every player.   A quick and dirty version of that is to check, position by position, the DWAR's of the Sox players.  

Right now Narvaez leads all MLB catchers with a 1.0 DWAR.  Ditto Abreu in RF with 0.8.  Ditto Rafaela with 1.3 in CF.  In LF Duran is treading water at 0.0.  Same goes for Story at SS, 0.0.  Kristian Campbell is underwater with -0.7.  Ditto Casas at 1b, -0.6, also Toro, -0.4, and even Gonzalez, -0.2.  

A rough assessment of those Sox DWAR's is that the outfield and catcher are well above average and the infield well below, especially with Bregman out.  

Which backs up my original point, that the infield defense wasn't all that competent even with bregman

[cp176]

11 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Dogs that resemble their humans.

Edit, as Red Sox fans: posters that resemble their dogs.

Which end of the dog? (Just a joke)

 

[mvp 78]

Positions where the Sox have been above average defensively (all plays)

3B

C (top 5)

LF

CF (top 5)

RF (top 5) 

Every other position has been bottom third in MLB. 

[Maxbialystock]

15 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

What one did last year doesn't matter this year.

The fact is he wasn't a GG'er this year so far.

The fact is that, based on his DWAR of +0.8, he was tied for 3d best fielding third basemen in MLB when he was injured.  Fielding percentages tell us nothing.  

[Maxbialystock]

15 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

What one did last year doesn't matter this year.

The fact is he wasn't a GG'er this year so far.

The fact is that, based on his DWAR of +0.8, he was tied for 3d best fielding third basemen in MLB when he was injured.  Fielding percentages tell us nothing.  

[Maxbialystock]

38 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Which backs up my original point, that the infield defense wasn't all that competent even with bregman

Actually, you said Bregman sucked this year because of the 5 errors and fielding percentage of .967.  

While I support the DWAR approach to measuring defense, I think for infielders it probably leaves out one factor I think is important--and that's double plays.  And right now the Sox are ranked 3d in double plays per game.  For that reason alone I'm not all that distraught about Story's DWAR.  

Also this.  Casas's DWAR was an awful -0.7, but I liked the way he fielded throws to 1b.  Plus I'm pretty sure that this season he intiated at least 2 double plays with excellent throws to 2b and then hustling back to 1b.  He was routinely awful on pop flies and only a little better on grounders.  If his OPS had been .850 I would have been very happy with him at 1b.  

And that leads to my final point.  Scoring runs is job 1 for the infield and outfield and DH.  That's especially true when we know that team fielding percentages suggest all defenses are equal.  

 

 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

35 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

Actually, you said Bregman sucked this year because of the 5 errors and fielding percentage of .967.  

While I support the DWAR approach to measuring defense, I think for infielders it probably leaves out one factor I think is important--and that's double plays.  And right now the Sox are ranked 3d in double plays per game.  For that reason alone I'm not all that distraught about Story's DWAR.  

Also this.  Casas's DWAR was an awful -0.7, but I liked the way he fielded throws to 1b.  Plus I'm pretty sure that this season he intiated at least 2 double plays with excellent throws to 2b and then hustling back to 1b.  He was routinely awful on pop flies and only a little better on grounders.  If his OPS had been .850 I would have been very happy with him at 1b.  

And that leads to my final point.  Scoring runs is job 1 for the infield and outfield and DH.  That's especially true when we know that team fielding percentages suggest all defenses are equal.  

 

 

Actually, exactly nowhere did I ever state that he sucks. Try again.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

55 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

The fact is that, based on his DWAR of +0.8, he was tied for 3d best fielding third basemen in MLB when he was injured.  Fielding percentages tell us nothing.  

Well, the fact is that he hasn't been performing as well as he has in previous years.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Well, the fact is that he hasn't been performing as well as he has in previous years.

Career Fld % 968

2025 % 966

2023 % 963

2021 % 964

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

Career Fld % 968

2025 % 966

2023 % 963

2021 % 964

Correct, but there are many more stats to look at then just Fld% as others have pointed out.

For example, he was on pace to tie or surpass his season high in errors.

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Correct, but there are many more stats to look at then just Fld% as others have pointed out.

For example, he was on pace to tie or surpass his season high in errors.

So? It would have meant that he would have played in over 150 games. Great!!!

There are 8 guys in MLB with more 3b errors than him. Out of 18 qualified 3b, he's 9th/10th most. He's had an average number of errors. I'll take that over what I've seen the previous several years. 

[Kimmi]

19 hours ago, jdc69 said:

You are right because they said so much. Ideally they shouldn't have said that at all and should've talked to Devers about going to 1st as they were about to sign Bregman, or before. Did they not because 1st was supposed to be saved for Casas? Thats no good. They should've used the energy JH used flying to KC to talk to Devers, at the beginning of the year, when they signed someone to take his place. 

The fact that Devers spoke to the media on both occasions, saying things that he probably shouldn't have said, shows that there was a lack of communication.

And knowing that the Red Sox lacked depth at 1B, I don't know why Devers hadn't been taking reps there all along.

[Kimmi]

19 hours ago, iortiz said:

I disagree. Devers is awful at fielding. Terrible!
 

OTOH 1B would have been way easier for him and the transition would have been natural. 

I know Bregman is a much better fielder than Devers is.  I still think they should have left Devers at 3B.  It seems the Red Sox were really intent on having Campbell on the roster.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

The fact that Devers spoke to the media on both occasions, saying things that he probably shouldn't have said, shows that there was a lack of communication.

And knowing that the Red Sox lacked depth at 1B, I don't know why Devers hadn't been taking reps there all along.

I agree on both points. The transition in Spring Training should have been "hey, we'll need you to be a DH/1B guy so let's just get you a 1B mitt that you can practice with and you won't have to worry about playing there fulltime immediately." What's the harm? "We want to play you there 25 games a year, but might need you for more if there's an injury." 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Kimmi said:

I know Bregman is a much better fielder than Devers is.  I still think they should have left Devers at 3B.  It seems the Red Sox were really intent on having Campbell on the roster.

Yeah, Campbell had a pretty bad Spring, but the goal all along was to get him on the roster the second he showed signs of life. Is it because he's the prospect they could point to as "he's OUR developmental success story"?