Article: Alex Cora's Seat Should Be Getting Warm, But He Needs More Time

[Alex Mayes]

There’s some validity to the thought that Alex Cora’s seat should be getting hotter and hotter by the day. He’s managing a team that should have a record well above .500. The team made significant improvements in the offseason by bringing in Garrett Crochet, Walker Buehler, Aroldis Chapman, and Alex Bregman. There were signs that homegrown players were taking a step forward, pitchers that had spent the last season on the injured list were poised to return, and there were some positive early returns.

Then, the wheels fell off the moment the calendar flipped from April to May.

Justin Slaten’s nasty curveball stopped being nasty; Triston Casas suffered a catastrophic, season-ending injury; Garrett Whitlock imploded time and time again, and his four blown saves on the season now lead the majors (Justin Wilson sits in second with three); Jarren Duran has fallen off; and the team has angered Rafael Devers once again.

That’s a lot in half a month.

That being said, Cora’s job should be safe through the end of the season. I wasn’t a fan of extending Cora during the series in Colorado last season because I felt that while he is a great manager of individual players, he’s not a great game manager. Just look at the loss in that second game against Detroit again. Aroldis Chapman threw 10 pitches. Do we want Chapman going for multiple innings frequently? No, but in a game that is winnable with him on the mound, it’s worth it to push him there, especially after Whitlock hadn’t had a decent outing since the start of the month.

The bigger issue with letting Cora go right now is there is no one that can feasibly replace him. Sure, Jason Varitek and Andrew Bailey are currently part of the coaching staff, but neither seem like actual replacements right now, Yes, Varitek has interviewed for managing positions around the league, but he seems to have little interest in managing the Red Sox. In a now deleted tweet, Jason’s wife Catherine said, “I don’t think Boston will ever be an option, but I see him bringing home a trophy as manager elsewhere for sure one day.” While things could certainly change, Tek is a legend in Boston and a lot of times legendary players struggle to manage the teams that hold them in high regard. I’d love to see him as a manager anywhere in the league—he’s one of my all-time favorite players and one of the biggest reasons I became a fan of the Red Sox—but living up to the on-field legacy while managing the team is incredibly difficult. Andrew Bailey probably has the inside track to replace Cora should he be relieved of his duties, but Bailey's focus should remain on the pitching staff and trying to figure out exactly what’s going wrong with the bulk of the bullpen. Bailey has the tools to be a great manager, but a mid-year shift in focus could send the Red Sox into a tailspin.

There are a few external options that the front office could explore. The Rockies recently parted ways with longtime manager Bud Black, the Pirates let Derick Shelton go, and Skip Schumaker is working as a front office executive with the Rangers but is likely itching to get back in the dugout. Black offers a lot of experience, and was let go after the Rockies lost to the Padres by a score of 21-0, but I fully believe that his firing has less to do with his managerial abilities and more to do with the ineptitude of the front office in Colorado. The same can be said for Shelton. It’s fairly easy to argue that both managers, when paired with a competent front office that want to win, would be successful anywhere they wanted to go, and that includes Boston. Black is 67 years old though, and an old-school management style may not fly as well with the current roster. Shelton is still young, relatively speaking, and could thrive with a talented group around him. Shumaker was who I wanted the front office to look at when Cora was brought back following his suspension. I championed for him again when it looked like Cora would be a free agent after the 2024 season. I still think he could be an effective manager in Boston should the role open up. It’s unlikely that any of those options would be interested in taking over the team during the season on an interim basis, though.

Alex Cora has his faults, and if the team winds up with a record around or below .500 again this season, then I think we could see the remaining years of his contract ripped up and him relieved of his managerial duties. Right now, though, it just doesn’t make sense to move on from Cora when there’s no clear path to success with someone else at the helm.

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[TheSplinteredSplendor]

He should be fired.

He's letting the inmates run the asylum.

Unless he is being directed to do so by the front office.

Then it's entirely on them.

[vegasbob]

A reasonable scenario is to keep Cora as manager through 2025 then bump him up to the FO , as a special assistant to the Owner, to hold J. Henry's hand .  Saves face for all of them  and some money

Also would put Alex in a position to severely second guess and undermine Craig Breslow, which is what AC's goal  is, Si o No ?

[TedYazPapiMookie]

5 hours ago, vegasbob said:

A reasonable scenario is to keep Cora as manager through 2025 then bump him up to the FO , as a special assistant to the Owner, to hold J. Henry's hand .  Saves face for all of them  and some money

Also would put Alex in a position to severely second guess and undermine Craig Breslow, which is what AC's goal  is, Si o No ?

Should we evaluate Cora like we do players?  I get that he has this great reputation.  In 2017 when the owners were taking heat for their lack of diversity, they promised things would change and a week later they hired a completely inexperience bench coach because he was bilingual and the Latin players complained about how strict Farrell was.  That's a very bizarre set of qualifications to use to hire a big league manager, especially after Farrell's success working with Dombrowski.  But politics are important in Boston as is the image of the Ownership group.  

Can we suggest Cora was responsible for the success of the 2018 Red Sox or was a very successful set of key acquisitions made by Dombrowski that significantly improved the skill level of the Red Sox the real reason for the 2018 success?  I think it was the acquisitions.  JD filled the hole left by Papi and Dombrowski added a Cy Young winner and a filthy lefty that looked to be a Cy Young winner soon.  What did Cora add in 2018?  

Cora filled the role of bench coach by spending a major portion of his time coddling guys like Devers and other young Latin players.  He didn't do much for JD, Benny or the other non-Latin players, he simply included the talented ones on his line-up card.  Betts exploded, Benny exploded, JD was a godsend, Bogey was outstanding while Devers struggled at hitting and was once again a butcher at 3B.  The chemistry on the team developed as JD and Bogey took over as the leaders on the team and Sale and Price headed up a very good starting rotation and a bullpen that had a great closer.  I think you can describe the Red Sox in 2018 as the equivalent of the 1990s Bulls, all the manager had to do was write out the line-up and not get in the way.  Cora's ego wouldn't let him only be the rudder of the ship, he chose to create a managerial style for in game and pre-game decisions that was highly questionable.

1 - He played the reserves more than he needed to because he buddied up to them since he identified with them as a player.  He wasn't good and didn't start very often.  In Houston, he coddled the bench players so it was in his wheelhouse to be that guy in the dugout and to make them appreciate him he provided them with more opportunities than they deserved if the team was to win.  Good thing he had far more talent than any other team.

2 - He spent months quoting Hinch and explained his decisions mirrored what Hinch did.  In April 2018 when the team had two open days in a week and a rain out he sat Mookie.  When asked he said Hinch created a calendar that detailed when each starter should have a day off.  He did the same.  When asked why he didn't just give them a day off when they needed it, he said his way was better.  The team lost the game that Mookie missed.

3 - Cora clearly had never managed a pitching staff.  He took out Sale early on so many occasions and replaced him with weak relievers so he could keep Sale fresh.  If not for the offense that mistake would have cost them many games but after the reliever gave the opposition the lead, the big four at the top of the order rallied late to pull out a win.  Sale struggled with all of the coaching Cora provided.  He suggested he shouldn't pitch with his hair on fire but rather throw slower in the early innings of a game.  That didn't work for Sale.  He tried to get Sale to pitch to contact to lessen his pitches.  That didn't work for Sale either.  After working the year before with Farrell, Sale was clearly frustrated by Cora's lack of knowledge, but he was a good soldier and did what Cora told him.

By the end of 2018 many people gave credit to Cora for them winning but the fans that watched closely and had baseball backgrounds saw that they won despite Cora.  His lack of experience destroyed the dynasty.  In 2019 he told the starting pitchers to arrive at Spring Training two weeks later than usual because they had to pitch into November.  Yes, it was an insane idea and all the pitchers ended up struggling in 2019 because of it.  Eovaldi got injured.  Price and Sale got lit up due to the shortened Spring Training and Cora actually changed Sale's mechanics in late April because he was struggling.  The change in his mechanic led to his TJ surgery after multiple IL stints in 2019.  Despite some players regressing back to their norms, the team was still over .500 but the pitching was really struggling.  Then the future of the Red Sox turned on a dime.

All his choices in 2019 lacked the luck of his bizarre choices for pinch hitters, relievers and line-ups that worked out in 2018 despite being illogical.  In the middle of all this chaos, Eckersley and Price had a feud that led to the owners bad mouthing Price publicly, which led to Mookie meeting with owners calling them out for doing it and deeply offending them.  Ownership decided Mookie needed to go and when Dombrowski tried to sign Mookie for 12 years at $36 Million a year (Only a $9 Million dollar raise) the owners refused, and the two parties decided to part ways, or so the story goes!  

To add to the huge mess created by Cora during Spring Training, word gets out that Cora cheated by creating a sign stealing operation in Houston that aided them in winning the World Series and-on-the-way eliminate more talented teams like the Red Sox, Yankees and Dodgers.   By the time the owners shipped the two best black players on the team to the Dodgers using a unqualified pretender GM from Tampa Bay the organization was already going down the drain rapidly.  2020 was a disaster and it got worse because after the season the owners chose to bring back the cheater.  Why?  I don't think we will ever know what leverage existed that a cheater would be asked back and practically apologized to for being fired.

Since Cora was brought back nothing has gone well.  The team has been an embarrassment.  And then the unexpected happened.  Cora, the source of most issues with the team over the last 5 years, insists on doing the obvious move to help fix the team.  Signing Bregman was a brilliant move and Breslow used Cora's leverage with ownership to make it happen.  The Crochet deal was another addition that Breslow orchestrated and now Boston's talent level is getting close to the 2018 team Bloom dismantled.

Is Cora on a hot seat?  I don't think so.  He is made of Teflon and it's ironic that when he's finally done something right fans might be calling for his head.  Like everything else, it makes no sense.

What a great topic to write about!!!  It's going to be controversial because fans and the media are split on Cora.  From where I'm sitting, I think of the last five years as an avalanche of destruction.  I think Cora created the snowball that got rolled down the hill, Ownership dumped Mookie to dramatically grow the size of the problem, then Bloom brought the dynamite to bring the entire mountain of snow down to the valley.  Breslow now must take what's left and bring it back up to the top of the mountain.

[jdc69]

If we don't make the playoffs, it'll be obvious the culprit since all we've done is upgrade, and all the upgrades have been successful, beyond our hopes. It would sadden me to start making a bunch of changes to the roster when I don't think thats the problem. including asking prospects to save us. Kristian did well but he came into a neutral situation at the time, which would be different from a situation of having to save a franchise from embarrassment. Thats like asking Mac Jones to be the next Tom Brady.

Yes, it's still too early but I don't think a whole season should be guaranteed. I'm thinking 2/3rds of a season if the trajectory isnt making the playoffs. And without major changes done to the roster either. 

Edit - To put some of the blame on Breslow and JH, the bullpen should've been a bigger priority in the off-season. 

[Bellhorn04]

13 hours ago, Alex Mayes said:

There’s some validity to the thought that Alex Cora’s seat should be getting hotter and hotter by the day. He’s managing a team that should have a record well above .500. The team made significant improvements in the offseason by bringing in Garrett Crochet, Walker Buehler, Aroldis Chapman, and Alex Bregman. There were signs that homegrown players were taking a step forward, pitchers that had spent the last season on the injured list were poised to return, and there were some positive early returns.

Then, the wheels fell off the moment the calendar flipped from April to May.

Justin Slaten’s nasty curveball stopped being nasty; Triston Casas suffered a catastrophic, season-ending injury; Garrett Whitlock imploded time and time again, and his four blown saves on the season now lead the majors (Justin Wilson sits in second with three); Jarren Duran has fallen off; and the team has angered Rafael Devers once again.

That’s a lot in half a month.

That being said, Cora’s job should be safe through the end of the season. I wasn’t a fan of extending Cora during the series in Colorado last season because I felt that while he is a great manager of individual players, he’s not a great game manager. Just look at the loss in that second game against Detroit again. Aroldis Chapman threw 10 pitches. Do we want Chapman going for multiple innings frequently? No, but in a game that is winnable with him on the mound, it’s worth it to push him there, especially after Whitlock hadn’t had a decent outing since the start of the month.

The bigger issue with letting Cora go right now is there is no one that can feasibly replace him. Sure, Jason Varitek and Andrew Bailey are currently part of the coaching staff, but neither seem like actual replacements right now, Yes, Varitek has interviewed for managing positions around the league, but he seems to have little interest in managing the Red Sox. In a now deleted tweet, Jason’s wife Catherine said, “I don’t think Boston will ever be an option, but I see him bringing home a trophy as manager elsewhere for sure one day.” While things could certainly change, Tek is a legend in Boston and a lot of times legendary players struggle to manage the teams that hold them in high regard. I’d love to see him as a manager anywhere in the league—he’s one of my all-time favorite players and one of the biggest reasons I became a fan of the Red Sox—but living up to the on-field legacy while managing the team is incredibly difficult. Andrew Bailey probably has the inside track to replace Cora should he be relieved of his duties, but Bailey's focus should remain on the pitching staff and trying to figure out exactly what’s going wrong with the bulk of the bullpen. Bailey has the tools to be a great manager, but a mid-year shift in focus could send the Red Sox into a tailspin.

There are a few external options that the front office could explore. The Rockies recently parted ways with longtime manager Bud Black, the Pirates let Derick Shelton go, and Skip Schumaker is working as a front office executive with the Rangers but is likely itching to get back in the dugout. Black offers a lot of experience, and was let go after the Rockies lost to the Padres by a score of 21-0, but I fully believe that his firing has less to do with his managerial abilities and more to do with the ineptitude of the front office in Colorado. The same can be said for Shelton. It’s fairly easy to argue that both managers, when paired with a competent front office that want to win, would be successful anywhere they wanted to go, and that includes Boston. Black is 67 years old though, and an old-school management style may not fly as well with the current roster. Shelton is still young, relatively speaking, and could thrive with a talented group around him. Shumaker was who I wanted the front office to look at when Cora was brought back following his suspension. I championed for him again when it looked like Cora would be a free agent after the 2024 season. I still think he could be an effective manager in Boston should the role open up. It’s unlikely that any of those options would be interested in taking over the team during the season on an interim basis, though.

Alex Cora has his faults, and if the team winds up with a record around or below .500 again this season, then I think we could see the remaining years of his contract ripped up and him relieved of his managerial duties. Right now, though, it just doesn’t make sense to move on from Cora when there’s no clear path to success with someone else at the helm.

 

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Sorry to be picky but I don't know what you're saying about Detroit Game 2 at all.

[Bellhorn04]

6 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Should we evaluate Cora like we do players?  I get that he has this great reputation.  In 2017 when the owners were taking heat for their lack of diversity, they promised things would change and a week later they hired a completely inexperience bench coach because he was bilingual and the Latin players complained about how strict Farrell was.  That's a very bizarre set of qualifications to use to hire a big league manager, especially after Farrell's success working with Dombrowski.  But politics are important in Boston as is the image of the Ownership group.  

Can we suggest Cora was responsible for the success of the 2018 Red Sox or was a very successful set of key acquisitions made by Dombrowski that significantly improved the skill level of the Red Sox the real reason for the 2018 success?  I think it was the acquisitions.  JD filled the hole left by Papi and Dombrowski added a Cy Young winner and a filthy lefty that looked to be a Cy Young winner soon.  What did Cora add in 2018?  

Cora filled the role of bench coach by spending a major portion of his time coddling guys like Devers and other young Latin players.  He didn't do much for JD, Benny or the other non-Latin players, he simply included the talented ones on his line-up card.  Betts exploded, Benny exploded, JD was a godsend, Bogey was outstanding while Devers struggled at hitting and was once again a butcher at 3B.  The chemistry on the team developed as JD and Bogey took over as the leaders on the team and Sale and Price headed up a very good starting rotation and a bullpen that had a great closer.  I think you can describe the Red Sox in 2018 as the equivalent of the 1990s Bulls, all the manager had to do was write out the line-up and not get in the way.  Cora's ego wouldn't let him only be the rudder of the ship, he chose to create a managerial style for in game and pre-game decisions that was highly questionable.

1 - He played the reserves more than he needed to because he buddied up to them since he identified with them as a player.  He wasn't good and didn't start very often.  In Houston, he coddled the bench players so it was in his wheelhouse to be that guy in the dugout and to make them appreciate him he provided them with more opportunities than they deserved if the team was to win.  Good thing he had far more talent than any other team.

2 - He spent months quoting Hinch and explained his decisions mirrored what Hinch did.  In April 2018 when the team had two open days in a week and a rain out he sat Mookie.  When asked he said Hinch created a calendar that detailed when each starter should have a day off.  He did the same.  When asked why he didn't just give them a day off when they needed it, he said his way was better.  The team lost the game that Mookie missed.

3 - Cora clearly had never managed a pitching staff.  He took out Sale early on so many occasions and replaced him with weak relievers so he could keep Sale fresh.  If not for the offense that mistake would have cost them many games but after the reliever gave the opposition the lead, the big four at the top of the order rallied late to pull out a win.  Sale struggled with all of the coaching Cora provided.  He suggested he shouldn't pitch with his hair on fire but rather throw slower in the early innings of a game.  That didn't work for Sale.  He tried to get Sale to pitch to contact to lessen his pitches.  That didn't work for Sale either.  After working the year before with Farrell, Sale was clearly frustrated by Cora's lack of knowledge, but he was a good soldier and did what Cora told him.

By the end of 2018 many people gave credit to Cora for them winning but the fans that watched closely and had baseball backgrounds saw that they won despite Cora.  His lack of experience destroyed the dynasty.  In 2019 he told the starting pitchers to arrive at Spring Training two weeks later than usual because they had to pitch into November.  Yes, it was an insane idea and all the pitchers ended up struggling in 2019 because of it.  Eovaldi got injured.  Price and Sale got lit up due to the shortened Spring Training and Cora actually changed Sale's mechanics in late April because he was struggling.  The change in his mechanic led to his TJ surgery after multiple IL stints in 2019.  Despite some players regressing back to their norms, the team was still over .500 but the pitching was really struggling.  Then the future of the Red Sox turned on a dime.

All his choices in 2019 lacked the luck of his bizarre choices for pinch hitters, relievers and line-ups that worked out in 2018 despite being illogical.  In the middle of all this chaos, Eckersley and Price had a feud that led to the owners bad mouthing Price publicly, which led to Mookie meeting with owners calling them out for doing it and deeply offending them.  Ownership decided Mookie needed to go and when Dombrowski tried to sign Mookie for 12 years at $36 Million a year (Only a $9 Million dollar raise) the owners refused, and the two parties decided to part ways, or so the story goes!  

To add to the huge mess created by Cora during Spring Training, word gets out that Cora cheated by creating a sign stealing operation in Houston that aided them in winning the World Series and-on-the-way eliminate more talented teams like the Red Sox, Yankees and Dodgers.   By the time the owners shipped the two best black players on the team to the Dodgers using a unqualified pretender GM from Tampa Bay the organization was already going down the drain rapidly.  2020 was a disaster and it got worse because after the season the owners chose to bring back the cheater.  Why?  I don't think we will ever know what leverage existed that a cheater would be asked back and practically apologized to for being fired.

Since Cora was brought back nothing has gone well.  The team has been an embarrassment.  And then the unexpected happened.  Cora, the source of most issues with the team over the last 5 years, insists on doing the obvious move to help fix the team.  Signing Bregman was a brilliant move and Breslow used Cora's leverage with ownership to make it happen.  The Crochet deal was another addition that Breslow orchestrated and now Boston's talent level is getting close to the 2018 team Bloom dismantled.

Is Cora on a hot seat?  I don't think so.  He is made of Teflon and it's ironic that when he's finally done something right fans might be calling for his head.  Like everything else, it makes no sense.

What a great topic to write about!!!  It's going to be controversial because fans and the media are split on Cora.  From where I'm sitting, I think of the last five years as an avalanche of destruction.  I think Cora created the snowball that got rolled down the hill, Ownership dumped Mookie to dramatically grow the size of the problem, then Bloom brought the dynamite to bring the entire mountain of snow down to the valley.  Breslow now must take what's left and bring it back up to the top of the mountain.

Dombrowski hand-picked Cora, so you're gravely mistaken on that point.

And first time hearing about that offer from Dombrowski to Betts and some of those other nuggets you disclosed!

And the Price-Eckersley episode was in 2017.  Can you please check your facts a little?

[mvp 78]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Sorry to be picky but I don't know what you're saying about Detroit Game 2 at all.

That they've resurrected Chapman as a closer is something I'm not willing to mess with AT ALL. 

Not every loss is on the coach. 

[mvp 78]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Dombrowski hand-picked Cora, so you're gravely mistaken on that point.

And first time hearing about that offer from Dombrowski to Betts and some of those other nuggets you disclosed!

And the Price-Eckersley episode was in 2017.  Can you please check your facts a little?

Interesting that CORA is changing pitcher's mechanics and not the pitching coach... 😎

[TedYazPapiMookie]

4 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Dombrowski hand-picked Cora, so you're gravely mistaken on that point.

And first time hearing about that offer from Dombrowski to Betts and some of those other nuggets you disclosed!

And the Price-Eckersley episode was in 2017.  Can you please check your facts a little?

I think you should check your facts.  Dombrowski DID NOT pick Cora he was forced on him by ownership and that's why Cora went behind DD's back to create a direct line of communication with the owners that circumvented Dombrowski.  Cora discussed many things directly with owners which did not go over well with DD.  Things like the Media Room cheating scandal saved Cora's career because he bragged about it to Henry and others making them liable when the Commissioner wanted to assess blame to the owners like they did in Houston.  Cora took the fifth with the commissioner and got the team to resind all comments about what had happened leaving the commissioner without proof of what they did.  That saved the owners embarrassment, fines and lost draft choices so they rewarded the cheater with an extension after he got out of baseball jail

The Eckersley incident happened in 2017 and Mookie was upset as a black team leader that ownership said disparaging things in public rather than keeping them in house about his teammate Price who was one of just a few black players on the team.  The ownership had long been called racist but for a player to challenge them on their actions against a minority player was unheard of.  It's been suggested that ownership's viewpoint of Betts being the franchise player changed after that.  Also, the ownership declared they were becoming more diverse and fired Farrell and hired Cora at the end of the 2017 season.  That was a direct response to the public allegations about their diversity issues and rumors of Mookie's meeting.

Dombrowski had a plan with respect to salary bumps for Sale who was on a very team friendly contract, for Mookie who was the franchise player and for Bogaerts who accepted a team friendly contract with an opt out if Bogaerts performed well.  The timetable was Sale's new contract was to happen in Spring Training of 2019, Mookie's new contract was to happen in Spring Training of 2020 and Bogaert's new contract was to happen in Spring Training of 2021.  Each contract was to be completed 18 months prior to the players reaching free agency.  The Sale deal was executed during the Spring Training screw-up by Cora in 2019.  

Unfortunately, the Dombrowski schedule got destroyed when DD went to ownership to get Mookie a $9Million dollar raise for 2020 that would extend him 10 to 12 years.  Ownership said no.  Dombrowski said he can't GM a team that doesn't want it's best player and if he was going to remain as GM Mookie needed to be signed.  Instead, the ownership group and DD parted ways with DD signing an NDA that simply had him walk away without discussing why.  Ownership chose to suggest that it was his spending despite the fact that the CAP was exceeded by the Retained Salaries from Cherington.  I apologize for not being clearer on the sequence of the events.

Bloom was NOT hired to do anything other than tear down the 2018 champions and rebuild a roster more like Tampa Bay's.  What ownership didn't know was that all the great deals made by Tampa Bay were assembled by his staff who were not allowed to follow him to Boston.  As a result, we got a GM with the best drafting slots in years, and they were used on players who were bad choices and young.  The youth factor extended the length of time it was to take to rebuild the torn down champions.  That's why Mayer has been such a disappointment considering who Bloom passed up to pick him and how much they have helped their teams already.  Cowser was the 5th pick in that draft and others not taken who have already helped their MLB teams are - Bednar PIT RP, M McLain CIN 2B, Connor Norby 3B, Spencer Schwellenback ATL SP and James Wood WAS OF.  All these players arrived to the MLB team long before now and Mayer still hasn't been promoted to the MLB.  That shows Bloom's plan of a long rebuilding process should not have been chosen by ownership since it is not tolerable to Boston Red Sox fans, especially roughly a year after winning a ring.

Can I ask why you think Dombrowski picked Cora?

[moonslav59]

In defense of Cora and the pitching results: argue all you will about what WAR tells us, but here are some numbers:

Cora got these rankings with these pitchers:

2021:

6th in SP fWAR: Nate 32 GS, ERod 31, Pivetta 30, Richards & M Perez 22

8th in RP fWAR: Whitlock, Ottavino, Barnes, Sawamura, Taylor, DHern, P Valdez, Andriese (all 37+ IP)

2022:

18th SP: Pivetta 33, Hill 26, Wacha 23, Nate 20, Wink 14/Crawford 12

27th RP: Whitlock, Schreiber, Brasier, A Davis, Sawamura, Strahm, Danish, barnes, Diekman (37+)

2023:

23rd SP: Bello 28, Crawford 23, Houck 21, Sale 20, Paxton 19/Pivetta 16/9 Kluber

13th RP: Wink, Whitlock, Martin, Bernardino, Murphy, Scheiber, jansen, Blier+Brasier

2024:

11th SP: Crawford 33, Houck 30, Bello 30 Pivetta 27, Criswell 26 (What were the hopes on these 5 in March?)

14th RP: Wink, Weissert, kelly, Slaten, Jansen, Anderson, bernardino, Martin, Booser

For 5 years, we have heard how JH and Bloom failed to build a strong team, yet it's Cora's fault we sucked?

I think he got the most out of a crappy pitching staff, especially the pen and the big SP'er additions each year mostly sucked.

[moonslav59]

2020-2025 Sox Pitchers by IP

6.33 Pivetta 4.29 (I'd say he overperformed expectations)

474 Houck 3.97 (peaked in 2024?)

404 Bello 4.28 (not a highly touted pitcher prospect on the Nat'l level)

340 Nate 3.79 (missed 35-40% of his starts)

264 Whitlock 3.48 (has been up & down)

242 Wink 4.20 (WOW, 6th in IP)

176 Perez 4.65 (Yuck-a-doodle-doo)

158 ERod 4.74 (missed all of 2020)

151 Sale 3.93 (didn't even reach a full season's IP total)

137 Richards 4.87 (Come on)

128 Hill 4.29, 127 Wacha 3.32 (Not bad results, considering)

120 Brasier 5.24

118 Bernardino 3.36 (overperformed)

117 Barnes 4.07 (mystery man)

Schreiber, paxton, Criswell, Sawamura (all over 100 IP)

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

50 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

I think you should check your facts.  Dombrowski DID NOT pick Cora he was forced on him by ownership and that's why Cora went behind DD's back to create a direct line of communication with the owners that circumvented Dombrowski.  Cora discussed many things directly with owners which did not go over well with DD.  Things like the Media Room cheating scandal saved Cora's career because he bragged about it to Henry and others making them liable when the Commissioner wanted to assess blame to the owners like they did in Houston.  Cora took the fifth with the commissioner and got the team to resind all comments about what had happened leaving the commissioner without proof of what they did.  That saved the owners embarrassment, fines and lost draft choices so they rewarded the cheater with an extension after he got out of baseball jail

The Eckersley incident happened in 2017 and Mookie was upset as a black team leader that ownership said disparaging things in public rather than keeping them in house about his teammate Price who was one of just a few black players on the team.  The ownership had long been called racist but for a player to challenge them on their actions against a minority player was unheard of.  It's been suggested that ownership's viewpoint of Betts being the franchise player changed after that.  Also, the ownership declared they were becoming more diverse and fired Farrell and hired Cora at the end of the 2017 season.  That was a direct response to the public allegations about their diversity issues and rumors of Mookie's meeting.

Dombrowski had a plan with respect to salary bumps for Sale who was on a very team friendly contract, for Mookie who was the franchise player and for Bogaerts who accepted a team friendly contract with an opt out if Bogaerts performed well.  The timetable was Sale's new contract was to happen in Spring Training of 2019, Mookie's new contract was to happen in Spring Training of 2020 and Bogaert's new contract was to happen in Spring Training of 2021.  Each contract was to be completed 18 months prior to the players reaching free agency.  The Sale deal was executed during the Spring Training screw-up by Cora in 2019.  

Unfortunately, the Dombrowski schedule got destroyed when DD went to ownership to get Mookie a $9Million dollar raise for 2020 that would extend him 10 to 12 years.  Ownership said no.  Dombrowski said he can't GM a team that doesn't want it's best player and if he was going to remain as GM Mookie needed to be signed.  Instead, the ownership group and DD parted ways with DD signing an NDA that simply had him walk away without discussing why.  Ownership chose to suggest that it was his spending despite the fact that the CAP was exceeded by the Retained Salaries from Cherington.  I apologize for not being clearer on the sequence of the events.

Bloom was NOT hired to do anything other than tear down the 2018 champions and rebuild a roster more like Tampa Bay's.  What ownership didn't know was that all the great deals made by Tampa Bay were assembled by his staff who were not allowed to follow him to Boston.  As a result, we got a GM with the best drafting slots in years, and they were used on players who were bad choices and young.  The youth factor extended the length of time it was to take to rebuild the torn down champions.  That's why Mayer has been such a disappointment considering who Bloom passed up to pick him and how much they have helped their teams already.  Cowser was the 5th pick in that draft and others not taken who have already helped their MLB teams are - Bednar PIT RP, M McLain CIN 2B, Connor Norby 3B, Spencer Schwellenback ATL SP and James Wood WAS OF.  All these players arrived to the MLB team long before now and Mayer still hasn't been promoted to the MLB.  That shows Bloom's plan of a long rebuilding process should not have been chosen by ownership since it is not tolerable to Boston Red Sox fans, especially roughly a year after winning a ring.

Can I ask why you think Dombrowski picked Cora?

Since you're the one who's claiming Cora was forced on Dombrowski by ownership, a claim I'm pretty sure nobody here has heard before, I think it's incumbent on you to provide some evidence of exactly where you're getting this information from.

[Nick]

14 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

2020-2025 Sox Pitchers by IP

6.33 Pivetta 4.29 (I'd say he overperformed expectations)

474 Houck 3.97 (peaked in 2024?)

404 Bello 4.28 (not a highly touted pitcher prospect on the Nat'l level)

340 Nate 3.79 (missed 35-40% of his starts)

264 Whitlock 3.48 (has been up & down)

242 Wink 4.20 (WOW, 6th in IP)

176 Perez 4.65 (Yuck-a-doodle-doo)

158 ERod 4.74 (missed all of 2020)

151 Sale 3.93 (didn't even reach a full season's IP total)

137 Richards 4.87 (Come on)

128 Hill 4.29, 127 Wacha 3.32 (Not bad results, considering)

120 Brasier 5.24

118 Bernardino 3.36 (overperformed)

117 Barnes 4.07 (mystery man)

Schreiber, paxton, Criswell, Sawamura (all over 100 IP)

 

 

2024 81-81 #3   13 games back

2023 78-84 #5 23 games back

2022 78-84 #5 21 games back

2021 92-70 #2   8 games back (lost in ALCS)

We can not take a step back. It's a bottom line game. Fire him if we're not in the playoffs. He's had 4 seasons now.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

4 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Interesting that CORA is changing pitcher's mechanics and not the pitching coach... 😎

The television interview had Cora telling everyone that he was working diligently with his pitching coaches on fixing Sale's mechanics.  So he takes credit but gives the pitching coaches a small part in it.  Sound like Cora?  I think it did when I watched the interview.  My first thought was poor Sale.  Cora knows nothing about pitching mechanics and he clearly knows nothing about how long it takes to make significant changes in arm angle, stride and release point during a season.  My experience has always suggested that all major mechanical changes should happen in the off season or you are libel to create an elbow injury.  With Sales exaggerated mechanics, the TJ surgery created from this change was highly predictable.

You have a very, very valid point and it cost Sale two years of service which may cost him a shot at the HOF.

[moonslav59]

50 minutes ago, Nick said:

2024 81-81 #3   13 games back

2023 78-84 #5 23 games back

2022 78-84 #5 21 games back

2021 92-70 #2   8 games back (lost in ALCS)

We can not take a step back. It's a bottom line game. Fire him if we're not in the playoffs. He's had 4 seasons now.

My point was to say that the roster Cora had to work with, especially the pitchers. 

Could another manager have done better? Maybe, but it would not have been very easy. I don't think anyone expected us to even make the playoffs in 2021, and we nearly made the WS.

I do hold 2022 against Cora, to some extent, because we added 3 pitchers that did better than almost all the others: Wacha, Hill and Strahm, although the first two missed key starts, and we did worse than '21. The roster did not get better in 2023. It did, somewhat in 2024, and the team did win more than '22 and '23. 

I think the "bottom line" is more suited for GMs and the budget setters. The manager does not construct the roster. His job is to get the most out of what he is given. I'd like to hear why you think the rosters were playoff worthy, when for 4 years, you and others have roasted Bloom, JH and others for continuous horrific roster construction.

Has Cora made mistakes? Yes. I have disagreed with several things he has done, including too many rest days and how he prescheduled them, even if the right-handed pitcher was starting that day. I think he has squeezed the most out of rotten pens on paper. Our rotations have sucked and or missed too much time with injuries to ever be a playoff rotation. I don't even think the 2021 rotation was playoff worthy. The team defense has been terrible, and I do blame Cora for some of the alignments he stuck with for too long. He even tried to lobby for Bregman at 2B, so Devers could keep throwing the ball away at 3B. I'm not sure the amount of mistakes warrants a firing, just yet. 

I will say, I'm not as high on him as I once was. Sometimes, firing a manager creates a spark. Many times, it does not. Morgan magic was one example, but nobody can convince me he was a good manager.

[dgalehouse]

The guy who should be on the hot seat is O's skipper, Brandon Hyde.  He seems completely lost.  Cora, in his tenure, has been kind of middle of the pack. Up and down, but mostly down recently. The thing is, Sox fans are not satisfied with middle of the pack.  For Cora to keep his job, the team has to start winning ASAP. Your personal likes and dislikes are not what matters. Results are what matters. And it is time we started to see better results. 

[drewski6]

Im convinced that most managers are hired/fired or assessed on things beyond their control.

I dont think they move the needle very much, and if they make an obvious mistake - sure - but it often gets magnified.

I think baseball managers get too much credit for team success and too much blame for lack thereof.

I lean towards Coras future not being within his control.

[dgalehouse]

9 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Im convinced that most managers are hired/fired or assessed on things beyond their control.

I dont think they move the needle very much, and if they make an obvious mistake - sure - but it often gets magnified.

I think baseball managers get too much credit for team success and too much blame for lack thereof.

I lean towards Coras future not being within his control.

Baseball is a business. A very competitive, results oriented business. And the importance of good management/ supervision should not be underestimated in any workplace. Obviously, it is hard to succeed when you don't have the horses. I think this season is, or should be , very critical for Cora's future. 

[Kimmi]

On 5/16/2025 at 4:48 PM, drewski6 said:

Im convinced that most managers are hired/fired or assessed on things beyond their control.

I dont think they move the needle very much, and if they make an obvious mistake - sure - but it often gets magnified.

I think baseball managers get too much credit for team success and too much blame for lack thereof.

I lean towards Coras future not being within his control.

My opinion is that what a manager does in the clubhouse and how he handles the players has more of an impact on team results than most in-game decisions.  As far as the in-game decisions go, I agree with you that managers don't move the needle very much.

Now, I'm not sure what is going on in the clubhouse, in particular, with regards to the whole Devers debacle dating back to when Bregman was first signed.  Based on recent production, Devers seems to be okay with everything, but I can't help but wonder if his refusal to play 1B has created any rift in the clubhouse.  As we know, when the team is playing well, things like this are a non-issue.  When the the team is struggling, these things tend to be blown up more.

Either way, Cora may find himself in the hot seat if the team doesn't start playing better.

[Nick]

On 5/16/2025 at 3:36 PM, moonslav59 said:

My point was to say that the roster Cora had to work with, especially the pitchers. 

Could another manager have done better? Maybe, but it would not have been very easy. I don't think anyone expected us to even make the playoffs in 2021, and we nearly made the WS.

I do hold 2022 against Cora, to some extent, because we added 3 pitchers that did better than almost all the others: Wacha, Hill and Strahm, although the first two missed key starts, and we did worse than '21. The roster did not get better in 2023. It did, somewhat in 2024, and the team did win more than '22 and '23. 

I think the "bottom line" is more suited for GMs and the budget setters. The manager does not construct the roster. His job is to get the most out of what he is given. I'd like to hear why you think the rosters were playoff worthy, when for 4 years, you and others have roasted Bloom, JH and others for continuous horrific roster construction.

Has Cora made mistakes? Yes. I have disagreed with several things he has done, including too many rest days and how he prescheduled them, even if the right-handed pitcher was starting that day. I think he has squeezed the most out of rotten pens on paper. Our rotations have sucked and or missed too much time with injuries to ever be a playoff rotation. I don't even think the 2021 rotation was playoff worthy. The team defense has been terrible, and I do blame Cora for some of the alignments he stuck with for too long. He even tried to lobby for Bregman at 2B, so Devers could keep throwing the ball away at 3B. I'm not sure the amount of mistakes warrants a firing, just yet. 

I will say, I'm not as high on him as I once was. Sometimes, firing a manager creates a spark. Many times, it does not. Morgan magic was one example, but nobody can convince me he was a good manager.

How then do you evaluate Cora? Or any manager for that matter.

If there are no criteria, then what that tells me is that managers are overrated. Hell I can fill out a lineup as and come up with pitching/hitting match ups if I had the analysis sheet in front of me.

Brez should just buy an AI.

[moonslav59]

42 minutes ago, Nick said:

How then do you evaluate Cora? Or any manager for that matter.

If there are no criteria, then what that tells me is that managers are overrated. Hell I can fill out a lineup as and come up with pitching/hitting match ups if I had the analysis sheet in front of me.

Brez should just buy an AI.

It's pretty subjective, IMO. Judging how good a team is on paper vs what the manger got out of them is a multi-layered and complex undertaking, and even if a team underperforms or overperforms, we still never know how much the manager had to do with it.

IMO, Cora was gifted some good to excellent teams, early on and did well with them. The 2020 team was a joke. The 2021 team overperformed, and the 2022-2024 teams did about as expected. On the surface, I'd say Cora has done okay with what he had with 2021 being the one year we can maybe say he did very well. 2019 could be blamed on him for the same reasons.

To me, JH was more to blame starting w 2019's not replacing Kimbrell and Kelly with a budget that allowed for it, then it only got worse. Bloom is way more to blame than Cora, but that's not letting Cora off the hook, totally.

I once though Cora was the best manager we ever had, or at least tied or close to Tito. I no longer think that, but I like him and think he is a plus manager. Sometimes, however, a manger loses his team and needs to go. I thought that happened to Tito. I'm not sure about Cora and this team. It's an almost whole new team.