A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part II

[Hitch]

5 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

No doubt, Bloom failed to do what they hoped he could do. He fell way short on the hopes of bargain basement success stories, and too many of his largest signings failed miserably, despite some of them only being $10M/1, so I guess success rates on those types of deals do not have great track records.

His deadline fumbles were legendary, but in '21, he did bring in Schwarber, Robles, and later Iggy & Shaw. The Vaz for Abreu deal was nice, but yes, the ho-hum summer deals left all of us scratching our heads- bot those who wanted us to sell and those who wanted us to buy.

He did pretty good with the farm, but failed to fix the farm pitching issues. He did leave us a few promising arms, but not really any wow factors.

Seeing what Brez has done in less than a year and a half is pretty remarkable in comparison to Bloom, but then again, Bloom got us close to the WS in less than 2 years. The after years dommed him.

Story, Yoshida, Richards, Kluber, Paxton...

As with all GM's - some good, some bad, some shared blame, some shared success. 

Those two deadlines are what I always think of when I think of him however. So frustrating. 

[Old Red]

I was against the Bloom hiring the second I heard about it, and said it more than once on here. To me it was that looking for that third option in that fork in the road at trade deadline, and the losing last place in the division finishes he’ll be remembered for. He did do some good things, but picking up trash in the stands between games of a DH didn’t help the team in the standings. One poster on here once said we’ve got Bloom, and we’ve got Cora like that was going to give the Red Sox a competitive advantage. It Didn’t.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

I was against the Bloom hiring the second I heard about it, and said it more than once on here. To me it was that looking for that third option in that fork in the road at trade deadline, and the losing last place in the division finishes he’ll be remembered for. He did do some good things, but picking up trash in the stands between games of a DH didn’t help the team in the standings. One poster on here once said we’ve got Bloom, and we’ve got Cora like that was going to give the Red Sox a competitive advantage. It Didn’t.

Absolutely hated the hiring -- not the man -- because it represented a total shift in the Red Sox philosophy of rebuilding.

It was obvious Bloom was hired to trade the best homegrown player of our lifetimes, and fairly impossible he'd receive commensurate talent in return (especially when it was also obvious he was forced to include sourpuss Price in the deal).

But if you're swapping a Hall of Famer like Betts from a club in dire need of pitching to the most pitching-rich team in the business, it is unforgivable not to land at least one acceptable arm. 

[mvp 78]

8 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

No doubt, Bloom failed to do what they hoped he could do. He fell way short on the hopes of bargain basement success stories, and too many of his largest signings failed miserably, despite some of them only being $10M/1, so I guess success rates on those types of deals do not have great track records.

His deadline fumbles were legendary, but in '21, he did bring in Schwarber, Robles, and later Iggy & Shaw. The Vaz for Abreu deal was nice, but yes, the ho-hum summer deals left all of us scratching our heads- bot those who wanted us to sell and those who wanted us to buy.

He did pretty good with the farm, but failed to fix the farm pitching issues. He did leave us a few promising arms, but not really any wow factors.

Seeing what Brez has done in less than a year and a half is pretty remarkable in comparison to Bloom, but then again, Bloom got us close to the WS in less than 2 years. The after years dommed him.

Story, Yoshida, Richards, Kluber, Paxton...

He certainly gets credit for '21, but largely whiffed on '22 and '23. It was clear the team wasn't set up for success in '24 either and needed to be handed over. I'll give him a pass on '20. 

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

I was against the Bloom hiring the second I heard about it, and said it more than once on here. To me it was that looking for that third option in that fork in the road at trade deadline, and the losing last place in the division finishes he’ll be remembered for. He did do some good things, but picking up trash in the stands between games of a DH didn’t help the team in the standings. One poster on here once said we’ve got Bloom, and we’ve got Cora like that was going to give the Red Sox a competitive advantage. It Didn’t.

You're against everything until it works out. That's how it seems anyway. 🫠

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You're against everything until it works out. That's how it seems anyway. 🫠

Not true, but I’m glad it appears that way. I’m wasn’t against Brez signing even though he was the 12th pick in the 2024 HOBO draft. I’m not against the Crochet deal even though as one astute talk show host said yesterday it was to soon, to much for so little experience. Most of all right now I don’t think the sky is falling , and concerned at all about Raffy, and the state of the offense. I get all the concerns, and worries, but ONLY after 5 games I think the panic is not warranted, and things will work out for the most part, and Raffy is just messed up, and not ready for any IL, and the rest of the lineup will straighten out too. 5 games is not the season, and nor is 20 AB .

[notin]

13 hours ago, Kimmi said:

Most people would agree with you, I think.  IMO, I'm not sure it was the right time to pull off a big deal just yet.  As with Cherington, I think Bloom should have been allowed more time to see his vision through.  

That said, I'm not unhappy Breslow.  I think he's very similar to Bloom.

Even a mediocre deal would have been fine.  In 2022, the Sox were one season removed from an ALCS appearance.  And to repeat that flop in 2023 was unforgivable.

St. Louis is a young, rebuilding team.  He’ll do well for them Theres for a while.  But once they start winning, we will have to see if it’s a different story…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not giving either Bloom or Brez a pass on the the last three seasons, when Boston had winning records in all three first halves and losing records in the second half (9 games below .500 in '22, 11 below in '23, and 10 below in '24).

In that respect, they're still the same guy -- for whatever reasons: not building a rotation with enough depth or talent, or a bullpen with the same, or monitoring and adjusting accordingly mid-season.

You can't just keep blaming bad luck on Trevor Story's bad luck...

The anticipated hope this season is the starting pitching will have more quality, and thus conserve relievers' arms for the dog days. Unfortunately, we opened with three starters already on the IL.

The potential hope for a better stretch run rests on a line-up infused with the energy of all three Big Three, or as soon as possible. Anthony and Mayer already have as many home runs (3) in Worcester as the entire Boston club in five games... provided entirely by Abreu and Campbell. 

[moonslav59]

4 hours ago, Hitch said:

As with all GM's - some good, some bad, some shared blame, some shared success. 

Those two deadlines are what I always think of when I think of him however. So frustrating. 

He will likely be known most for trading Betts.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

You're against everything until it works out. That's how it seems anyway. 🫠

The way he words things, he leaves the door open to saying he was right, no matter what happens.

[moonslav59]

57 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Not true, but I’m glad it appears that way. I’m wasn’t against Brez signing even though he was the 12th pick in the 2024 HOBO draft.

Had Brez sucked, you'd have said, "See, I told you we settled on the 12th guy, so what should we have expected." (You still might say it, if we finish last, this year.)

[Bellhorn04]

14 hours ago, Kimmi said:

1.  Am I misremembering?  The Sox did make Mookie a competitive offer.  Mookie said no.

They offered him a little less than $300 mill, per Zack Scott, and they weren't prepared to go higher.  Competitive offer, sure.  But I can also understand Mookie thinking he could do better than that.

I think they undervalued him as a player, frankly.  They probably didn't believe he could continue to be elite another 5-10 years. 

[moonslav59]

24 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

They offered him a little less than $300 mill, per Zack Scott, and they weren't prepared to go higher.  Competitive offer, sure.  But I can also understand Mookie thinking he could do better than that.

I think they undervalued him as a player, frankly.  They probably didn't believe he could continue to be elite another 5-10 years. 

I think that's it, basically. Weird that they felt Devers could last 10.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think that's it, basically. Weird that they felt Devers could last 10.

But do GMs even think that way anymore -- or is it closer to "what we pay is for 4 good years at the front of a contract, and worth 3 dead seasons at the end"...

[moonslav59]

I do think they try to project how slowly or quickly a long term signing will decline.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I do think they try to project how slowly or quickly a long term signing will decline.

They knew Mookie -- the all-time leader in three home run games -- would get so sick in five years that he'd only hit two HRs in a game when he returned.

[Old Red]

52 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Had Brez sucked, you'd have said, "See, I told you we settled on the 12th guy, so what should we have expected." (You still might say it, if we finish last, this year.)

The Red Sox were the laughing stock of baseball on MLB network,  and many other venues when 10+ candidates wouldn’t even interview for the HOBO job of the Boston Red Sox especially after Sam said Boston would be the place where everyone would want to be. Yes if the Red Sox finish last again this year I’ll be all over Brez as will many, many other fans, and will be deserving so as it will be with Cora.

[Hugh2]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The Red Sox were the laughing stock of baseball on MLB network,  and many other venues when 10+ candidates wouldn’t even interview for the HOBO job of the Boston Red Sox especially after Sam said Boston would be the place where everyone would want to be. Yes if the Red Sox finish last again this year I’ll be all over Brez as will many, many other fans, and will be deserving so as it will be with Cora.

I never really fully believed that narrative.  It was one set by the Boston media, which I've grown a serious mistrust for.  They have their own agenda and negativity sells clicks. 

I own a business and I hire, every single person I interview is someone who is looking for a job and applied for it.  I would imagine that if I went and tried to poach people away from other businesses who already had jobs and weren't necessarily looking for another that I'd get a lot of declines for interviews as well.  Add in having to move across the country and uproot your family into the equation and my point is only strengthened. 

I seriously doubt there was more than 1, if 1 candidate who declined the interview who didn't do so because they would not have for all the other 28 teams as well because they were happy where they were.  

Have any of the candidates who refused the Sox interview taken GM/CBO jobs elsewhere since then? I sincerely do not know but that would be interesting to see. 

[Nick]

15 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

1. We know what the Dodgers are paying Betts, but don't know how much more they were willing to pay him if the Sox made a competitive offer.  It's important to remember that the Betts deal happened after the 2019 season, which was unmitigated disaster.  The Sox had the highest payroll in MLB and couldn't make the playoffs.  The hitting was still pretty good with Mookie--the Sox finished 4th in MLB in runs scored.  But the pitching, ranked 19th in team ERA, stunk. 

2.  So DD was fired and replaced by Chaim Bloom from the Rays system, probably in hopes he could field a competitive team that didn't break the bank at Monte Carlo.  Thus the pursuit of relative bargains like Story and Yoshida--and a whole bunch of pitchers.  The 2021 team, Chaim's first when you exclude covid 2020, was pretty good and made it to the ALCS before losing to the Astros. 

3. But then came 78 wins (and no postseason) in both 2022 and 2023, so the Chaim experiment ended and Breslow, with a Yale degree (majors in molecular biophysics and biochemisty) and 12 years of MLB pitching experience, was hired.  

4. Last year, despite the Giolito/Sale disasters, was a slight improvement--from 78 wins to 81 wins--plus the Sox finished 3d in the AL East instead of the cellar in both 2022 and 2023.  In the 2024  postseason Breslow had the go ahead to make some big acquisitions--Bregman, Buehler, Chapman, and Crochet.  Interestingly, however--and I think moonslav predicted this last year--the Sox payroll right now is ranked just 12th.  

5.  I don't like being 1-4 right now, but have hopes the new blood--including Campbell and the guys still in AAA--will get the Sox to the postseason.  

6.  All in all, I'm inclined to defend JH, who is the best owner in Sox history--his quirks notwithstanding.  

I am extremely happy with this version of JH.

I'm also not 100% sure if Betts wanted to be in Boston. 

[Bellhorn04]

20 minutes ago, Nick said:

I am extremely happy with this version of JH.

I'm also not 100% sure if Betts wanted to be in Boston. 

Zack Scott who worked in the Sox front office at the time totally disputed the idea that Betts didn't want to stay.  He said Betts just wanted to be paid market value and the Sox had self-imposed limits that they were sticking to.

[Old Red]

21 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I never really fully believed that narrative.  It was one set by the Boston media, which I've grown a serious mistrust for.  They have their own agenda and negativity sells clicks. 

I own a business and I hire, every single person I interview is someone who is looking for a job and applied for it.  I would imagine that if I went and tried to poach people away from other businesses who already had jobs and weren't necessarily looking for another that I'd get a lot of declines for interviews as well.  Add in having to move across the country and uproot your family into the equation and my point is only strengthened. 

I seriously doubt there was more than 1, if 1 candidate who declined the interview who didn't do so because they would not have for all the other 28 teams as well because they were happy where they were.  

Have any of the candidates who refused the Sox interview taken GM/CBO jobs elsewhere since then? I sincerely do not know but that would be interesting to see. 

The narrative was out there all around MLB from MLB network, ESPN and others, so it was a lot more than the mean Boston media. Some of the candidates even admitted it themselves, so I don’t think Boston as Sam said is the place that everyone would want to be at. DD got fired after 4 winning seasons, and a WS title and I don’t think working for JH is all that enticing. I have no doubt the 10+ number was correct IMO.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Zack Scott who worked in the Sox front office at the time totally disputed the idea that Betts didn't want to stay.  He said Betts just wanted to be paid market value and the Sox had self-imposed limits that they were sticking to.

Idiots. Mookie didn't want Mike Trout money, but knew he was better than Machado and Harper, who each signed $300 million dollar plus contracts in 2019. 

He still is: 2020-2024 WAR -- Betts 27.8, Machado 20.6, Harper 18.8... Trout 13.8.

[dgalehouse]

The first few games of a season are always given more importance than they deserve. The Sox have a good team. I have no doubt that they will get their act together and start winning before too long. 

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

He will likely be known most for trading Betts.

That was a mandate from ownership. Bloom is the 22-23 guy who drafted Mayer, Anthony and friends. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

The Red Sox were the laughing stock of baseball on MLB network,  and many other venues when 10+ candidates wouldn’t even interview for the HOBO job of the Boston Red Sox especially after Sam said Boston would be the place where everyone would want to be. Yes if the Red Sox finish last again this year I’ll be all over Brez as will many, many other fans, and will be deserving so as it will be with Cora.

Exactly,  but for now, you'll pretend you were indifferent or supported him.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

That was a mandate from ownership. Bloom is the 22-23 guy who drafted Mayer, Anthony and friends. 

Sly dog. Bloom wore the crushed face at the airport when Bogey signed with SD, then turned around and used the comp pick to nab Kristian Campbell (after selecting four others in front of him).

[moonslav59]

54 minutes ago, Nick said:

I am extremely happy with this version of JH.

It seemed a few posters were certain he would never spend, again.

I had my doubts, too. Serious doubts, especially after the 2023 season.

This is indeed a good sign, but he can't let up next winter, or this summer.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Sly dog. Bloom wore the crushed face at the airport when Bogey signed with SD, then turned around and used the comp pick to nab Kristian Campbell (after selecting four others in front of him).

And, with Bogey's apparent decline, we aren't hearing about the loss of Bogey much, at all. The same happened with the Beni trade.  (The JBJ trade still sucked, but at least DHam is giving us something back.)

Had we signed Bogey, would JH have spent this much on this offseason?

Bloom made some major mistakes, no doubt, but here are some of his draftees and IFA signings:

Campbell (comp pick for Bogey)

Anthony

Mayer

Guerrero, Jh & Jo Garcia, Arias, Romero, Early, Cespedes, Bleis, Paez,  and others

Teel, Montgomery & Meidroth (Crochet trade)

Yorke (traded for Priester)

E R-C (traded for Narvaez)

Traded or Rule 5 drafted for these prospects: Whitlock, Wink, Fitts, Sandlin, Wong & others

[Old Red]

24 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

That was a mandate from ownership. Bloom is the 22-23 guy who drafted Mayer, Anthony and friends. 

Mayer fell into Bloom’s lap after 3 other teams passed on him. 

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

And, with Bogey's apparent decline, we aren't hearing about the loss of Bogey much, at all.

He struggled with an injury last season, but is rocking a 824 OPS right now. He's also best friends with Raffy and would be instrumental in pulling Raffy out of his current slump.