Article: Who’s the Red Sox Third Baseman? It's Messy

[moonslav59]

7 hours ago, Deja Doh said:

Devers and Bregman are very similar players on offense.  Bregman is the better team player as he gets on base (and his career WAR is almost double Devers).  Defensively Bregman is better than Devers as at times Devers seems to have grown roots.  Bregman is by far the better defensive player.  The only worse contract for a 3rd baseman is Anthony Rendon's (but the Angels only have to eat two more years in that contract, versus 8 more with Rafi's).

The main defensive issue with Devers is not "roots." Since 2017, his range is +3.4. His arm is the issue, namely accuracy: -6.3 DP and -22.8 Err R. 66 Throwing errors to the next guys at 48, 46, 37, 33. He has double the throwing errors as the 4th worst arm in MLB. He's still worst in FE, but not because of range. (He has 75 FE, and the next guys have 56,54, 43, 42.)

I would not call Devers and Bregman's offense "similar." Maybe it was back in 2017-2020, but not since:

2017-2019 OPS:

.902 Bregman (126 OPS+)  but .924 2017-2019 (147) ages 22-25

.837 Devers (116) Ages 20-22, 

2021-2024:

.873 Devers (135)

.795 Bregman (122)

[mvp 78]

25 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

mvp was being facetious.  It was about the ARod/Jeter thing.  

Wow, I don't have to put up with pollys lke you putting words in my mouth! 😡

This place is unbelievable sometimes.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The main defensive issue with Devers is not "roots." Since 2017, his range is +3.4. His arm is the issue, namely accuracy: -6.3 DP and -22.8 Err R. 66 Throwing errors to the next guys at 48, 46, 37, 33. He has double the throwing errors as the 4th worst arm in MLB. He's still worst in FE, but not because of range. (He has 75 FE, and the next guys have 56,54, 43, 42.)

I would not call Devers and Bregman's offense "similar." Maybe it was back in 2017-2020, but not since:

2017-2019 OPS:

.902 Bregman (126 OPS+)  but .924 2017-2019 (147) ages 22-25

.837 Devers (116) Ages 20-22, 

2021-2024:

.873 Devers (135)

.795 Bregman (122)

They might not be similar lately, but comparable in value to a line-up. Devers hits the ball harder, but Bregman makes more contact.

The last four full seasons, Raffy's Hard Hit % is over 50% and his Exit Velo is over 90%. Alex is around 40% and just below 90%. In K-rates, Bregman's are all less than 14% (career is 13.4%), while Devers is around 20% (career 21.2%).

And then there is Line Drive %. Raffy: 23.9, 26.4, 20.6, 25 (career 23.9).... AB: 23.1, 24.5, 25, 24.2 (career 25.9).

 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/mlb/how-red-sox-can-resolve-rafael-devers-situation-save-275-million-2033495

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Wow, I don't have to put up with pollys lke you putting words in my mouth! 😡

This place is unbelievable sometimes.

I was just trying to help, honest.  

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/mlb/how-red-sox-can-resolve-rafael-devers-situation-save-275-million-2033495

Yeah, that's brilliant. 😜

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, that's brilliant. 😜

A lot of the players have said that even during and after the 3b talk that they vibes are good. Threatening your most expensive player with the Disqualified List really tanks all those vibes. 

It's always nice to reminded that I'm more level headed than most sports journalists even though some of my posts are pretty out there. Put Cotillo, McAdam or any number of beat writers in as CBO and the Red Sox become what we are seeing in the South Side of Chicago.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

17 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/mlb/how-red-sox-can-resolve-rafael-devers-situation-save-275-million-2033495

snoozeweak.dumbass/how-yankee-fan-writer-afraid-of-'25Boston-can-spew-idiocy-online

[moonslav59]

29 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

They might not be similar lately, but comparable in value to a line-up. Devers hits the ball harder, but Bregman makes more contact.

The last four full seasons, Raffy's Hard Hit % is over 50% and his Exit Velo is over 90%. Alex is around 40% and just below 90%. In K-rates, Bregman's are all less than 14% (career is 13.4%), while Devers is around 20% (career 21.2%).

And then there is Line Drive %. Raffy: 23.9, 26.4, 20.6, 25 (career 23.9).... AB: 23.1, 24.5, 25, 24.2 (career 25.9).

 

Devers is a way better hitter and likely will be even better, going forward, as age catches up with Bregman.

I'm hopeful that Fenway can add some juice to Bregman's declined numbers.

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Devers is a way better hitter and likely will be even better, going forward, as age catches up with Bregman.

I'm hopeful that Fenway can add some juice to Bregman's declined numbers.

So that he's one and done? Or just enough juice that he's better, but not so much that he leaves in a few years. Or so much juice that they win a WS and who cares if he leaves? 

[mvp 78]

If you move Devers off 3b, but Bregman leaves this offseason, what's the plan? Campbell? Grissom? Mayer? FA?

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

So that he's one and done? Or just enough juice that he's better, but not so much that he leaves in a few years. Or so much juice that they win a WS and who cares if he leaves? 

I'm not sure what he does. If he has a monster year, he can probably get  that same $171M/6 type offer, but with $40M already in the bank.

Maybe he extends with BOS.

On 3B, I'd like to see how Campbell looks there. If Story shows a resurgence, I'm fine with seeing Mayer at 3B. I have not lost faith in Grissom, but he needs to show he can hit for me to seriously think about him winning any FT job.

[Bellhorn04]

I actually think Bregman would like to stick around.  I mean, he turned down 171.5 mill from the Tigers. 

[moonslav59]

43 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, that's brilliant. 😜

Now, that is over-the-top sensationalism.

[mvp 78]

24 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I actually think Bregman would like to stick around.  I mean, he turned down 171.5 mill from the Tigers. 

I have no idea what he is or isn't thinking, so I'll just be happy he's here for this year and see what happens later on. 

This has the makings of a very one and done year with this team considering the status of impactful guys like Gio, Bregman, Buehler, Chapman, Hendriks, Story (if only). 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

snoozeweak.dumbass/how-yankee-fan-writer-afraid-of-'25Boston-can-spew-idiocy-online

Hardly a Yankees' fan, the writer is a SoCal dodgers' fan.

A little research goes a long way..........

[jad]

And now, to turn to more substantial matters:  https://www.si.com/mlb/hal-steinbrenner-announces-yankees-change-longstanding-facial-hair-policy

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, that's brilliant. 😜

Well, it would force devers' hand, so.......

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

Bleacher Report's Zachary D. Rymer proposed this blockbuster deal that could send Devers to the Chicago Cubs while bringing a slugger to Boston:

Red Sox receive: right fielder/designated hitter Seiya Suzuki and catcher Moises Ballesteros (Cubs No.4 prospect)

Cubs receive: third baseman Rafael Devers

[wyo-sox]

If it's me and I'm in charge... I'm likely leaving Devers on 3rd.  Yes Bregman is much better defensively at 3rd and it would make the team better.  But fortunately for us we have 2B- and probably SS (as soon as Story gets his annual season ending injury) which we can say the same the same thing about.  .. Bregman   makes us a better defensively anywhere he plays.

Watching most games last year.... I honestly felt like Devers played better defensive then he usually does (albeit low bar).   But most games 3rd base felt serviceable.    now the middle infield drove me nuts... never felt like we had big league players manning those spots.  

Moving Devers creates a weird domino effect- forcing Yoshida into playing outfield.... which makes us worse defensefily.   Rafaela, Abraeu, and Duran make up a solid, good defense.  I don't want to see them platooned or splitting time as a back up or occasion DH guy.

I didn't end the last few years feeling.... we need to fix the outfield, or 3B... I ended it wanting better D up the middle infield, and more sustained pitching.  Focus the roster on those things.

I think Bregman is a better option at 3rd than Devers- but in context of the dominos that would happen (not to mention the drama) I think the team overall is better with Bregman at 2nd.

[mvp 78]

28 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Bleacher Report's Zachary D. Rymer proposed this blockbuster deal that could send Devers to the Chicago Cubs while bringing a slugger to Boston:

Red Sox receive: right fielder/designated hitter Seiya Suzuki and catcher Moises Ballesteros (Cubs No.4 prospect)

Cubs receive: third baseman Rafael Devers

The title of his column was "Wild Devers Trade Ideas" and included deals for Vlad Jr, Trout, Castellanos, Castillo, Muncy and others. It's called throwing crap at the wall to get people to look at ads. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The title of his column was "Wild Devers Trade Ideas" and included deals for Vlad Jr, Trout, Castellanos, Castillo, Muncy and others. It's called throwing crap at the wall to get people to look at ads. 

I never claimed it was anything but........

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The title of his column was "Wild Devers Trade Ideas" and included deals for Vlad Jr, Trout, Castellanos, Castillo, Muncy and others. It's called throwing crap at the wall to get people to look at ads. 

For years I read any Red Sox article I could find online. NESN.com was always a go-to site -- now it's all crap, loaded with dozens of daily clicks, most that say nothing new, promoted as 1 to 3 minute "reads." What... if... I... read... slower? Avoid at all costs.

[Bellhorn04]

42 minutes ago, wyo-sox said:

If it's me and I'm in charge... I'm likely leaving Devers on 3rd.  Yes Bregman is much better defensively at 3rd and it would make the team better.  But fortunately for us we have 2B- and probably SS (as soon as Story gets his annual season ending injury) which we can say the same the same thing about.  .. Bregman   makes us a better defensively anywhere he plays.

Watching most games last year.... I honestly felt like Devers played better defensive then he usually does (albeit low bar).   But most games 3rd base felt serviceable.    now the middle infield drove me nuts... never felt like we had big league players manning those spots.  

Moving Devers creates a weird domino effect- forcing Yoshida into playing outfield.... which makes us worse defensefily.   Rafaela, Abraeu, and Duran make up a solid, good defense.  I don't want to see them platooned or splitting time as a back up or occasion DH guy.

I didn't end the last few years feeling.... we need to fix the outfield, or 3B... I ended it wanting better D up the middle infield, and more sustained pitching.  Focus the roster on those things.

I think Bregman is a better option at 3rd than Devers- but in context of the dominos that would happen (not to mention the drama) I think the team overall is better with Bregman at 2nd.

All good points.  Cora will figure it out, but I have no idea how.  The fact that Devers is reportedly still having some shoulder issues could certainly play into it.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

All good points.  Cora will figure it out, but I have no idea how.  The fact that Devers is reportedly still having some shoulder issues could certainly play into it.

Like Merloni said the other day that 2B is more important than 3B, and you need a good DP combo if possible playing there every day.

[Hitch]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

A lot of the players have said that even during and after the 3b talk that they vibes are good. Threatening your most expensive player with the Disqualified List really tanks all those vibes. 

It's always nice to reminded that I'm more level headed than most sports journalists even though some of my posts are pretty out there. Put Cotillo, McAdam or any number of beat writers in as CBO and the Red Sox become what we are seeing in the South Side of Chicago.

What have McAdams or Cotillo said to deserve this ire exactly?

[jad]

Yeah, bench him and put him on the disqualified list.  I'm sure the players union would be all for that kind of approach.  And it would 'teach him a lesson!'  and maybe 'teach the union a lesson' too,   Probably then owners could institute a hard cap ('teaching a lesson to the players again'), redirecting millions and millions to themselves (where most fans apparently think the money should be), and then Baseball Could Be Great Again.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

39 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

All good points.  Cora will figure it out, but I have no idea how.  The fact that Devers is reportedly still having some shoulder issues could certainly play into it.

Wouldn't shoulder issues make it a smarter idea to move him to 1B, or, better yet, DH?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

4 minutes ago, jad said:

Yeah, bench him and put him on the disqualified list.  I'm sure the players union would be all for that kind of approach.  And it would 'teach him a lesson!'  and maybe 'teach the union a lesson' too,   Probably then owners could institute a hard cap ('teaching a lesson to the players again'), redirecting millions and millions to themselves (where most fans apparently think the money should be), and then Baseball Could Be Great Again.

Umm, if he refuses to do what the team tells him to do then the union wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Smh.....

[jad]

2 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Umm, if he refuses to do what the team tells him to do then the union wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Smh.....

Yup.  Go for it.   And if the union strikes and we don't have baseball for a year, that's just the cost of doing business (i.e., lining the pockets of fat capitalists).