Red Sox sign Alex Bregman

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

Injuries will be a factor, since they are every year.  And roster changes are even more frequent.

Essentially you said Bregman will play second base until he doesn’t.  Hard to argue with that…

Just like when Story played 2B. Cora said he wouldn’t fill in anywhere else meaning SS. If Bregman plays 2B then Raffy will be 3B, and 3B only, and Casas will be 1B, and 1B only. Backups will come from the bench guys.

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, notin said:

Injuries will be a factor, since they are every year.  And roster changes are even more frequent.

Essentially you said Bregman will play second base until he doesn’t.  Hard to argue with that…

Frequent roster changes were, because of injuries, and that’s why all the revolving doors at 2B, SS, and 1B. Hopefully not needed this year.

[notin]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Just like when Story played 2B. Cora said he wouldn’t fill in anywhere else meaning SS. If Bregman plays 2B then Raffy will be 3B, and 3B only, and Casas will be 1B, and 1B only. Backups will come from the bench guys.

Sure, until someone gets hurt.  Happens every year.  All three of Story, Casas and Devers had injuries last year…

[notin]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Frequent roster changes were, because of injuries, and that’s why all the revolving doors at 2B, SS, and 1B. Hopefully not needed this year.

But those changes are inevitable and this year the Sox are more prepared than in the past few.

For example, last year the Dodgers used 22 position players and  38 pitchers, a far cry from the 13 of each on their opening day roster…

[moonslav59]

49 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Sample size isn't everything.  Bregman has the body and skill set to be a good middle infielder.

Some guys can play multiple infield positions.  Jose Iglesias for example.

True, but even if he is a GG 2Bman, the best defense is still Bregman at 3B and Campbell at 2B (or a DHam-Romy platoon,) so it may still not be worth it.

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

But those changes are inevitable and this year the Sox are more prepared than in the past few.

For example, last year the Dodgers used 22 position players and  38 pitchers, a far cry from the 13 of each on their opening day roster…

Understood fully, but like I said hopefully not all these changes have to be needed this year. As is right now you have full time players at just about every position except for possibly RF,and C, which to me should be the plan every year. There shouldn’t be a plan IMO as some have suggested On here to have 2 backups like Romy, and DHam being part of a regular platoon.

[moonslav59]

21 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Just like when Story played 2B. Cora said he wouldn’t fill in anywhere else meaning SS. If Bregman plays 2B then Raffy will be 3B, and 3B only, and Casas will be 1B, and 1B only. Backups will come from the bench guys.

I'm not so sure the Story example is a predictor of what Cora will do in 2025. Nobody else really has played much 3B. Romy has 106 innings at 3B in MLB and 87 in the minors. DHam has zero. Grissom: 0 in MLB and 235 in the minors. My guess is that when Devers gets a day off, Bregman plays 3B and DHam-Romy-Grissom play 2B. (Maybe Campbell could play 3B, but he will not be a bench player.)

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Your claim that Bregman is an "instant upgrade" on defense is dubious, at best, as long as he plays 2B over DHam-Romy or maybe even Campbell.

It will instantly improve the defense, the second he plays 3B.

Bregman at 2nd does improve the defense.  
 

I think many of us just wanted him at 3rd because we thought Campbell would also be an upgrade at 2nd and Bregman would be a step up on D over Devers.

not my plan A, but I still think the team is defensively better

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not so sure the Story example is a predictor of what Cora will do in 2025. Nobody else really has played much 3B. Romy has 106 innings at 3B in MLB and 87 in the minors. DHam has zero. Grissom: 0 in MLB and 235 in the minors. My guess is that when Devers gets a day off, Bregman plays 3B and DHam-Romy-Grissom play 2B. (Maybe Campbell could play 3B, but he will not be a bench player.)

Cora hasn’t said any plan yet, so we’ll have to wait on that one.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Understood fully, but like I said hopefully not all these changes have to be needed this year. As is right now you have full time players at just about every position except for possibly RF,and C, which to me should be the plan every year. There shouldn’t be a plan IMO as some have suggested On here to have 2 backups like Romy, and DHam being part of a regular platoon.

DHam and Romy are plus defenders at 2B and stabilized that position in 2024, after the horrific start at 2B by EValdez, Reyes & Grissom. Romy had great splits  vs LHPs, although that could be an outlier. Dham did okay vs RHPs after May, but that could also have been a fluke. 

It's not ideal to go into a season with that platoon at 2B, but it does not look like a weakness, on paper. Certainly, Bregman looks better, and Campbell might become a better option, too.

The bigger plus, by using Campbell or a DHam-Romy platoon at 2B comes from improving 3B defense with Bregman at 3B and Devers/Casas sharing DH/1B duties. That was the context used for having the DHam-Romy platoon at 2B, at least until Campbell won the job, outright.

There is logic to the idea, despite it not being ideal.

With Bregman on board, that changes things, and since Cora wants him at 2B, the debate is ended, in terms of what will happen. The debate on what should happen may never end. despite you wnating it to end.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

DHam and Romy are plus defenders at 2B and stabilized that position in 2024, after the horrific start at 2B by EValdez, Reyes & Grissom. Romy had great splits  vs LHPs, although that could be an outlier. Dham did okay vs RHPs after May, but that could also have been a fluke. 

It's not ideal to go into a season with that platoon at 2B, but it does not look like a weakness, on paper. Certainly, Bregman looks better, and Campbell might become a better option, too.

The bigger plus, by using Campbell or a DHam-Romy platoon at 2B comes from improving 3B defense with Bregman at 3B and Devers/Casas sharing DH/1B duties. That was the context used for having the DHam-Romy platoon at 2B, at least until Campbell won the job, outright.

There is logic to the idea, despite it not being ideal.

With Bregman on board, that changes things, and since Cora wants him at 2B, the debate is ended, in terms of what will happen. The debate on what should happen may never end. despite you wnating it to end.

I know you have a thing for the DHam, Romy, Ref Man’s of the world, and there is nothing wrong with that, but I don’t like the constant revolving door that’s been at 2B for a few years now, and I don’t see it as being needed this year. Romy, and DHam are both backups, and that should be their only role IMO. Bregman at 2B if that’s the plan takes care of that.

[moonslav59]

32 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I know you have a thing for the DHam, Romy, Ref Man’s of the world, and there is nothing wrong with that, but I don’t like the constant revolving door that’s been at 2B for a few years now, and I don’t see it as being needed this year. Romy, and DHam are both backups, and that should be their only role IMO. Bregman at 2B if that’s the plan takes care of that.

It's not needed with Bregman at 2B, of if Campbell wins the FT 2B job. I said that.

They will be back-ups as long as Bregman is at 2B or Campbell is the FT 2Bman. There is no disagreement on that.

I understand not likeng a "revolving door" at 2B, as it has been a big failure since the Pedey/Nunez days, except for the brief time Story was healthy and at 2B. Nobody liked it, but  I do think the DHam-Romy platoon after May of 2024 did well enough to be a plus. DHam ended the season with a 2.6 bWAR and Romy 0.9 in a combined 530 PAs.

It is nice having two like them as utility players. They are better there than as starters, but we still will have rotten corner IF defense, when we don't have to. My choice would be to have Bregman at 3B, but I know that is not happening, at least to start 2025.

[mvp 78]

7 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, I was kind of surprised anyone wanted to open this delicious can of worms again, but here we are. 😄

It seems that the can is very replaceable so why pay a guy like O’Neill 20M when he doesn’t stay healthy.

Ross

Renfroe

O’Neill

Duvall

These guys are entirely interchangeable. My biggest concern with O’Neill is health and bad defense. Bregman is more likely to be worth 40M than O’Neill is to be worth 20M. 

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It seems that the can is very replaceable so why pay a guy like O’Neill 20M when he doesn’t stay healthy.

Ross

Renfroe

O’Neill

Duvall

These guys are entirely interchangeable. My biggest concern with O’Neill is health and bad defense. Bregman is more likely to be worth 40M than O’Neill is to be worth 20M. 

The can of worms I was referring to was actually the RBI thing.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The can of worms I was referring to was actually the RBI thing.

So was I. 

[notin]

3 hours ago, Old Red said:

Understood fully, but like I said hopefully not all these changes have to be needed this year. As is right now you have full time players at just about every position except for possibly RF,and C, which to me should be the plan every year. There shouldn’t be a plan IMO as some have suggested On here to have 2 backups like Romy, and DHam being part of a regular platoon.

Why not?

Im not a big fan of platoons, because it often compromises defense at some point (except DH platoons, which are probably the most common ones).  But overall, platoons are a very widespread solution employed by plenty of teams, including the Sox in recent years.  And they don’t happen by accident.

Refsnyder has only one outstanding baseball skill - the ability to crush LHP - and beyond that he’s a borderline MLB. talent at his best. But why not exploit that one skill when necessary…

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The can of worms I was referring to was actually the RBI thing.

Yup. They mattered with Renfroe but not O"Neall was only one aspect or the point.

While I do recognize RBIs as a luck and opportunity reliant stat, it does make replacing O'Neall's actual production easier to imagine.

[moonslav59]

25 minutes ago, notin said:

Why not?

Im not a big fan of platoons, because it often compromises defense at some point (except DH platoons, which are probably the most common ones).  But overall, platoons are a very widespread solution employed by plenty of teams, including the Sox in recent years.  And they don’t happen by accident.

Refsnyder has only one outstanding baseball skill - the ability to crush LHP - and beyond that he’s a borderline MLB. talent at his best. But why not exploit that one skill when necessary…

That's how I see it.

I think some do not like platoons, because they prefer having 9 all around players, and seeing a line-up with Refsnyder batting 3rd, 5th or 6th just does not look sexy.

Ref bashes LHPs so well, that he's almost worthy of platooning with all but 20 players in MLB, if it wasn't for his position and poor D.

My seemingly fixated position on the DHam-Romy platoon at 2B was prior to the Bregman signing to play 2B, of course. I'm still fine with the idea, if Bregman moves to 3B. They both are plus defenders- something we have not seen at 2B in a while. The worst part about the poor D at 2B, for years, is that the O has been awful, too. I think a DHam-Romy platoon could have an OPS near .750 with .780-.790 possible, and a likely plus DRS/OAA number. Call me a homer, but this seems reasonable.

A Yoshida-Ref platoon at DH makes sense, as does Yoshida-Romy. A Ref-Abreu platoon makes sense, too, either a straight RF platoon or by juggling Duran from LF to CF and Rafaela from CF to RF to improve the OF D in big RF parks.

[moonslav59]

Maybe, Bregman at 2B is not such a done deal...

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2025/02/red-sox-undecided-on-infield-alignment-following-alex-bregman-deal.html

It is interesting that Cora thinks Bregman might be at GG level at 2B defense. Remember, he said something similar about Kike at SSor 2B.

[harmony]

On 2/13/2025 at 7:16 PM, moonslav59 said:

I mentioned DHam as he bats LH'd, and we just added a RHB IF'er.

His value is higher than Grissom, so maybe we could save more on Masa by sending him over Grissom. (I guess BTV says $10M more.)

Masa+ $12-20M & Grissom for Garver.

Masas +$2-12M & DHam for Garver.

Thoughts on this proposed trade that includes two injured Red Sox?

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/185693

[moonslav59]

29 minutes ago, harmony said:

Thoughts on this proposed trade that includes two injured Red Sox?

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/185693

I'd do that and give more. Getting rid of Yoshida would be huge, even if Castillo pitches like a 4/5 the rest of the way. (I like Luis more than Crawford, so I see an upgrade over Kutter and Gio.) Grissom and Castro are nearly insignificant to the Sox.

I'd add Mullins or the like to get this done.

[harmony]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd do that and give more. Getting rid of Yoshida would be huge, even if Castillo pitches like a 4/5 the rest of the way. (I like Luis more than Crawford, so I see an upgrade over Kutter and Gio.) Grissom and Castro are nearly insignificant to the Sox.

I'd add Mullins or the like to get this done.

Of course, Luis Castillo is unlikely to waive his no-trade clause to join the Red Sox, especially now that Spring Training has commenced.

Instead of Allan Castro with a BTV surplus value of $4.1 million, the Mariners would likely prefer Quinn Priester ($2.6 million) or Richard Fitts ($4.4 million).

[moonslav59]

Other suggested Sox deals:

Casas, DHam, Criswell & Fitts for Cease & Suarez- NO

Crawford, Abreu, Yoshida for Cease and Adam- YES

Yoshida, $28M, Abreu & Bleis form Mason Miller- YES

Abreu & Arias for Jared Jones- YES

Crawford, Abreu & Jordan for Helsley & Herrera- Yes

Story, Campbell, Priester and $10M for Suzuki.- NO

Grissom & Romy for Bednar- YES

Bello, Abreu, Casas & Rafaela for Tatis and Peralta- NO

Abreu & Yoshida for Yaz & Villar- Hmmm... YES

Yoshida, $24M, Romy & Sogard for Robert Suarez- YES

Yoshida, $18M, Crawford & Wong for Logan Hoppe- YES! I like this one, a lot.

DHam & Wink for Bednar & T Johnson- I'd do it for just Bednar, maybe.

Casas & Crawford for Munoz, Castillo and $15M- Hmmmm....probably.

Ref, Romy & Bernardino for Helsley & Rajcic- YES

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, harmony said:

Of course, Luis Castillo is unlikely to waive his no-trade clause to join the Red Sox, especially now that Spring Training has commenced.

Instead of Allan Castro with a BTV surplus value of $4.1 million, the Mariners would likely prefer Quinn Priester ($2.6 million) or Richard Fitts ($4.4 million).

I'd give both to dump Yoshida.

[Hitch]

3 hours ago, harmony said:

Thoughts on this proposed trade that includes two injured Red Sox?

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/185693

I do this and fast if I'm the Sox. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

7 hours ago, harmony said:

Thoughts on this proposed trade that includes two injured Red Sox?

https://www.baseballtradevalues.com/trades/185693

There's no way I'm giving away a starting pitcher in his prime, just to get rid of the Red Sox' best hitter with runners in scoring position.

'24 BA w RISP: Yoshida .308, Abreu .287, Wong .284, Rafaela .255, Casas .250, Duran .250, O'Neill .231, Devers .226, Story .214.

Career RISP w OPS (the latter stat matters more to some people, though On Base includes walks, which keep rallies going but don't necessarily drive home baserunners): Duran .288/.808, Yoshida .282/.781, Devers .279/.894, Casas .258/.889, Story .250/.807. 

To be fair, Bregman was only .230 with runners in scoring position last year. But...

Bregman's career with RISP: .295/.916 OPS.

(... for anyone suspecting trash cans -- after 1,221 Plate Appearances, a batter might go deaf -- yet, Alex was seen talking to teammates and fans yesterday; better watch his press conference today, whether he can hear reporters' questions).

 

[Bellhorn04]

8 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd give both to dump Yoshida.

That seems a little overboard.  Priester and Fitts could be important rotation depth.

 

[notin]

8 hours ago, harmony said:

Of course, Luis Castillo is unlikely to waive his no-trade clause to join the Red Sox, especially now that Spring Training has commenced.

Instead of Allan Castro with a BTV surplus value of $4.1 million, the Mariners would likely prefer Quinn Priester ($2.6 million) or Richard Fitts ($4.4 million).

Speaking for Castillo AND changing the deal midstream?!?! 
 

I mean, maybe Castillo isnt exactly thrilled with the Mariners this off-season, where there biggest acquisition is a debate between Shintaro Fujinami or Miles Mastrobuoni…

[notin]

8 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I'd give both to dump Yoshida.

Why?  Yoshida’s contract is hardly prohibitive.  Especially if people live in a fantasy world that if the Sox save that money, they’ll spend it elsewhere…

[Bellhorn04]

Just now, notin said:

Why?  Yoshida’s contract is hardly prohibitive.  Especially if people live in a fantasy world that if the Sox save that money, they’ll spend it elsewhere…

moon is now prepared to give up multiple pitching prospects to be rid of him.  That really seems like overstating the problem.