A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part I

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, oldtimer said:

I have been dormant for months after seeing the Sox falter as I expected they would. I agree with Hugh to some extent. Bring up the young talent to solve the 2nd base situation and improve the outfield. The young players don't have to get gray in their beards before becoming a positive, Trade Yoshida as he is not a field player and hasn't the power to be a DH. Look to Story to fill SS. Find a RH power bat in free agency. Not from the dumpster but someone front line. If need be, move Devers to DH. Costly for the position but it improves the defense and lowers the injury risks. With the extra money, get a front line starter and a RP who can deal with pressure situations. That requires adjustments in thinking by management and also coaching but should be enough to earn us a playoff spot. I've been a fan since the 1940's but have not felt optimistic about management being either intelligent or being willing to spend on the team. Hope they prove me wrong.

Good to see you back. We missed you!

[harmony]

5 hours ago, smokedogg1982 said:

We owe what $54m/3 

They owe $25m/1 (player option) 

Throw in a low level prospect. It seems very clear that they want rid of him. I don't think 24 is who Montgomery is. With spring training under his belt he should improve. It's the only feasible way I can see to move on from Yoshida.

This year the Diamondbacks paid Joc Pederson, a lefthand-hitting DH only, $12.5 million to put up 3.0 fWAR, about twice what Masataka Yoshida has posted in his first two MLB seasons.

Arizona is unlikely to pay more for less production.

[Randy Red Sox]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I don't see it that way, but one really good SP'er and the rest spent on 3 quality pen arms is fine with me.

People talk about Crawford's IP, but I'd prefer him as our long man. Too many HRs allowed. Maybe he was lucky so many were solo blasts- maybe not. I'd prefer not to find out. He had an ERA+ of 98. That's really not bad for a 5th starter, but I have Gio pegged for that slot, with an 81 and 90 ERA+, his last 2 full seasons.

Besides, we know someone will get hurt, and if not, one of the 4 we got will likely take a step back.

An ace pick-up would be awesome. We need to plan for something going wrong, instead of acting shocked, when it does.

I think we have every position covered 2-3 deep, except catcher, so we add a decent 1 year catcher to go with Wong, and then improve our rotation and depth and pen.

I like Fitts, Criswell, Priester and maybe Dobbins as rotation depth, but I'd prefer they were the 7-10 guys, not the 6.

We do need a lot of pen help, and if the budget is limited, I can see going with 1 SP. Your point is valid. I think we can afford to trade Abreu and DHam for a couple nice pen guys, so I'm thinking sign one top RP'er like Tanner Scott and either sign a good SP'er or two, or trade a top prospect for one, and then sign someone like Nick Martinez, Kikuchi or Flaherty- and not a tier one FA SP'er.

 

i said last offseason I was not real high on Crawford but although he gave up a lot of HR. he exceeded my projection for him. Henry has directed his flunky baseball ops to build this team through the farm sprinkled with veterans on 1-2 yr deals so I dont see us adding any top FA SP. You may be right with a guy like Martinez but that won't win me back

[moonslav59]

11 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

i said last offseason I was not real high on Crawford but although he gave up a lot of HR. he exceeded my projection for him. Henry has directed his flunky baseball ops to build this team through the farm sprinkled with veterans on 1-2 yr deals so I dont see us adding any top FA SP. You may be right with a guy like Martinez but that won't win me back

If it's Martinez and a couple decent pen arms, I'll be far fro won over, too. We need at a BARE MINIMUM 1 top SP'ers and 2 very solid RP'ers (one that might close and one a lefty set-up man.) I'd like 4 pitchers and a good back-up catcher, but would be okay with 3 major additions.

[Larry Cook]

21 hours ago, oldtimer said:

After watching the Dodgers edge out the Padres, it made me think that both these teams are loaded with big name hitters and they also have excellent defen sive teams. Despite those attribute, both teams were largely shutdown by exceptional pitching. In the case of the Dodgers, they had injuries among their starters and were relying on a very capable and deep bull pen.  

To me there are two seasons. One where a team has to make the playoffs and the second for the team to succeed in the playoff. In the first, a loaded team can beat up enough on weaker average pitching and the second where they have to have outstanding pitching while ekeing out wins with defense, speed and what hittiing they can find. Hitters who have low strike out rates and put the ball in play are especially valued.

The Sox currently have one of the poorer defenses in baseball, had too many players with high strike rates and we're not deep on the pitching side. Those who believe ownership will spend enough to be competitive with teams like the Dodgers or Padres are just dreaming. Better to find ways to improve team speed and defense as much as possible from within and filling one or two position players while plowing the most money into at least one quality starter and greatly strengthening the BP. 

Suggestions:

1. Take Devers off  3rd and mainly DH him while trading Yoshida.

2. Fill 3rd with a FA with defensive chops and is a RH hitter.

3. Leave Story at short and back him up with Mayer

4. Fill 2nd from the minors with Cambell and let him compete with Grissom (best man starts)

5. Leave Casas at 1st with Devers as backup

6. I'm happy with Duran and Abreau but think we need to bring Anothy up. Refsnyder or other right  hsnd bat can back up. Return Rafaela to minors to improve plate discipline.

7. Wong as primary catcher but defense is questionable. FA backup catchel as Teel not ready.

These moves improves the defense and team speed. I am willing to risk the prospects hitting. What do we have to lose? Another dismal season?

8. Concentrate on at least one front line starter and multiple quality relief pitchers. We can expect pitching injuries so depth is criticl. i prefer younger arms where possible as it is  unlikely we will make enough moves to be fully competitive in 2025.

1.) I agree completely. 
2.) Mayer may be better suited at 3b according to some scouts. 
3.) I agree. 
4.) I agree, best man wins. 
5.) cassas is a dumpster fire defensively. 
6.) I would think that with the contract rafeala signed and the defense he provides, he is not the worst 9 hole hitter we have ever had. 
7.) I agree teel is not ready. 
8.) I think we need 2 quality starters and 2 quality relievers. Our lack of depth was exposed again in 2024. 

[moonslav59]

I know it is risky suggesting a Mayer trade, with no sure-handed back-up SS in the system. That leads me to think the idea of moving Devers to 1B and or DH and keeping Mayer a better idea.

Decide who is best at 3B: Mayer or Campbell. If they still have faith in Grissom, and he does well in ST'ing, maybe he joins the mix at 3B. Maybe choose one, but give another some reps there- just in case.

1B/DH: Devers & Casas (Romy/Wong)

2B: Campbell or Mayer with Grissom-DHam platoon as depth. (Romy)

SS: Story or Mayer (Romy/Meidroth)

3B: Mayer, Campbell or Grissom w Devers as depth (Meidroth AAA)

Don't spend on a 3Bman. If someone gets hurt, maybe we try Meidroth at 3B or just move Devers back, in a pinch. If Story gets hurt: Mayer at SS, Campbell/Grissom at 3B and Campbell or DHam-Grissom at 2B.

I think we would still have decent depth at all 4 infield positions and a solid 5 batters at IF and DH. The defense would be significantly better- just with Story or Mayer at SS and anyone else at 3B. DHam was damn good at 2B, and Campbell has to be better than EValdez and a few others we tried at 2B in '24.

Better O.

Better D.

Why not?

[Larry Cook]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I know it is risky suggesting a Mayer trade, with no sure-handed back-up SS in the system. That leads me to think the idea of moving Devers to 1B and or DH and keeping Mayer a better idea.

Decide who is best at 3B: Mayer or Campbell. If they still have faith in Grissom, and he does well in ST'ing, maybe he joins the mix at 3B. Maybe choose one, but give another some reps there- just in case.

1B/DH: Devers & Casas (Romy/Wong)

2B: Campbell or Mayer with Grissom-DHam platoon as depth. (Romy)

SS: Story or Mayer (Romy/Meidroth)

3B: Mayer, Campbell or Grissom w Devers as depth (Meidroth AAA)

Don't spend on a 3Bman. If someone gets hurt, maybe we try Meidroth at 3B or just move Devers back, in a pinch. If Story gets hurt: Mayer at SS, Campbell/Grissom at 3B and Campbell or DHam-Grissom at 2B.

I think we would still have decent depth at all 4 infield positions and a solid 5 batters at IF and DH. The defense would be significantly better- just with Story or Mayer at SS and anyone else at 3B. DHam was damn good at 2B, and Campbell has to be better than EValdez and a few others we tried at 2B in '24.

Better O.

Better D.

Why not?

Step 1 - we have to trade yoshida. 
Step 2 - we sign fried. 
Step 3 - we use whatever combination of players and prospects (excluding Anthony  Campbell and teel) necessary to help Seattle improve their offense so we can pry Bryce Miller out of their control.

Step 4 - open competition at all four infield positions among all infield  players not included in trades with the goal of fielding the best hitting and fielding team possible. 

 

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Step 1 - we have to trade yoshida. 
Step 2 - we sign fried. 
Step 3 - we use whatever combination of players and prospects (excluding Anthony  Campbell and teel) necessary to help Seattle improve their offense so we can pry Bryce Miller out of their control.

Step 4 - open competition at all four infield positions among all infield  players not included in trades with the goal of fielding the best hitting and fielding team possible. 

 

This would be fine, and the pen would be improved by moving SP'ers to the pen, but we'd still need serious pen upgrades.

[Larry Cook]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

This would be fine, and the pen would be improved by moving SP'ers to the pen, but we'd still need serious pen upgrades.

We are losing 4 relievers in free agency so we need to add as much depth as possible to the bullpen 

[Randy Red Sox]

48 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I know it is risky suggesting a Mayer trade, with no sure-handed back-up SS in the system. That leads me to think the idea of moving Devers to 1B and or DH and keeping Mayer a better idea.

Decide who is best at 3B: Mayer or Campbell. If they still have faith in Grissom, and he does well in ST'ing, maybe he joins the mix at 3B. Maybe choose one, but give another some reps there- just in case.

1B/DH: Devers & Casas (Romy/Wong)

2B: Campbell or Mayer with Grissom-DHam platoon as depth. (Romy)

SS: Story or Mayer (Romy/Meidroth)

3B: Mayer, Campbell or Grissom w Devers as depth (Meidroth AAA)

Don't spend on a 3Bman. If someone gets hurt, maybe we try Meidroth at 3B or just move Devers back, in a pinch. If Story gets hurt: Mayer at SS, Campbell/Grissom at 3B and Campbell or DHam-Grissom at 2B.

I think we would still have decent depth at all 4 infield positions and a solid 5 batters at IF and DH. The defense would be significantly better- just with Story or Mayer at SS and anyone else at 3B. DHam was damn good at 2B, and Campbell has to be better than EValdez and a few others we tried at 2B in '24.

Better O.

Better D.

Why not?

what with all the high draft picks we have spent on shortstops the past 3-4 drafts that none of them are even close to MLB ready besides Mayer?  Not even Micky Romero?

[Larry Cook]

54 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

what with all the high draft picks we have spent on shortstops the past 3-4 drafts that none of them are even close to MLB ready besides Mayer?  Not even Micky Romero?

Oddly enough, the best defensive shortstop in the system is not a draft pick, but instead it is arias 

[moonslav59]

47 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

what with all the high draft picks we have spent on shortstops the past 3-4 drafts that none of them are even close to MLB ready besides Mayer?  Not even Micky Romero?

We knew some would never stick at  SS, and that's why it wasn't such a big deal. Many teams put their best athlete at SS, but that does not make them a ML SS. It just means we draft the best athletes.

Zanetello looks like a wasted pick. Antonio Anderson has a ways to go, but who complains about the Campbell pick, and if he ends up at 2B or OF? Riemer was the 4th SS in our top 6 picks in '23. He may make it.

It looks like Arias will stick at SS, if his bat can keep him good enough to make the bigs. 

No SSs taken in 2024 (Cason is P/SS), so let's see how this works out.

Romero can't stay healthy, but he seems to have stepped up, this year. Cutter Coffey was traded 

Lugo was traded but was not going to be a SS.

All-in-all, I think we did okay with picking SSs, although none have made it yet.

2 Mayer, 3 Campbell, 7 Arias, (Meidroth is #9 and can play SS)  10 Cespedes and 14 Romero.

2 of our top 7 were SSs.

5 of the top 10 were SSs or can play SS

6 of 14, the same. Let's give 'em a chance.

[harmony]

What could the Red Sox offer for 28-year-old Minnesota righthander Pablo Lopez, who has three years and $65.25 million remaining on his contract?

If Twins Owners Want to Clean Up Their Books, Pablo López Could Be a Trade Candidate - Twins - Twins Daily

TWINSDAILY.COM

---

The front office might have to get creative to find financial relief.

 

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, harmony said:

What could the Red Sox offer for 28-year-old Minnesota righthander Pablo Lopez, who has three years and $65.25 million remaining on his contract?

If Twins Owners Want to Clean Up Their Books, Pablo López Could Be a Trade Candidate - Twins - Twins Daily

TWINSDAILY.COM

---

The front office might have to get creative to find financial relief.

 

Interesting idea. BTV has him at 37, which is less than Abreu + DHam, but I'm sure they'd hang up on that call.

They may want to trade RHB Buxton, but he's always hurt. He's worth 0.4 on BTV.

Would Abreu,DHam and Dobbins (Fitts)  get the job done?

[mvp 78]

11 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

what with all the high draft picks we have spent on shortstops the past 3-4 drafts that none of them are even close to MLB ready besides Mayer?  Not even Micky Romero?

Romero has struggled with injuries, but made it to AA this year. Yorke was in AAA and made his MLB debut, they just decided to trade him away. It generally takes a few years for HS guys to make their debut. If they were drafting college SS's you'd see quicker debuts. 

[mvp 78]

Romero was drafted in '22. I don't think there's a reasonable expectation for a HS player to be MLB ready 3 years later. He's not even Rule 5 eligible until after the 2026 season. 

[harmony]

11 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Interesting idea. BTV has him at 37, which is less than Abreu + DHam, but I'm sure they'd hang up on that call.

They may want to trade RHB Buxton, but he's always hurt. He's worth 0.4 on BTV.

Would Abreu,DHam and Dobbins (Fitts)  get the job done?

Other trade candidates from the Minnesota rotation:

Will the Minnesota Twins Trade Joe Ryan or Bailey Ober This Offseason? - Twins - Twins Daily

TWINSDAILY.COM

---

It's more likely than you might think.

 

[notin]

12 hours ago, harmony said:

What could the Red Sox offer for 28-year-old Minnesota righthander Pablo Lopez, who has three years and $65.25 million remaining on his contract?

If Twins Owners Want to Clean Up Their Books, Pablo López Could Be a Trade Candidate - Twins - Twins Daily

TWINSDAILY.COM

---

The front office might have to get creative to find financial relief.

 

We already have Pablo López.   Or at least, we did last year…

[notin]

51 minutes ago, harmony said:

Other trade candidates from the Minnesota rotation:

Will the Minnesota Twins Trade Joe Ryan or Bailey Ober This Offseason? - Twins - Twins Daily

TWINSDAILY.COM

---

It's more likely than you might think.

 

Kyle Teel for Bailey Ober?

BTV calls this one-for-one proposal a fair trade…

[moonslav59]

54 minutes ago, notin said:

Kyle Teel for Bailey Ober?

BTV calls this one-for-one proposal a fair trade…

Let's get their catcher back.

[mvp 78]

Twins Daily? Who reads that place?!?!? 😎

[harmony]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Twins Daily? Who reads that place?!?!? 😎

Well-informed baseball fans.😁

The technical lead for TalkSox is also the technical lead for TwinsDaily, BrewerFanatic and NorthSideBaseball:

https://x.com/brock_beauchamp?lang=en

 

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, harmony said:

Well-informed baseball fans.😁

The technical lead for TalkSox is also the technical lead for TwinsDaily, BrewerFanatic and NorthSideBaseball:

https://x.com/brock_beauchamp?lang=en

 

You're not one for jokes are you? 

[harmony]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

You're not one for jokes are you? 

Humor and sarcasm are often lost on the internet.😁

[mvp 78]

26 minutes ago, harmony said:

Humor and sarcasm are often lost on the internet.😁

In general, it's safe to assume that a moderator is aware of the other sites as well. Also, there were hints of sarcasm with the extraneous usage of exclamations and question marks as well as the ubiquitous sunglasses emoji for whenever I'm doing a goof. 

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

In general, it's safe to assume that a moderator is aware of the other sites as well. Also, there were hints of sarcasm with the extraneous usage of exclamations and question marks as well as the ubiquitous sunglasses emoji for whenever I'm doing a goof. 

Hey I thought his response of “well-informed baseball fans” was also sarcastic…

[mvp 78]

23 minutes ago, notin said:

Hey I thought his response of “well-informed baseball fans” was also sarcastic…

Brock did say that he doesn't spend much time there anymore... 🤔

[mvp 78]

That Mayor's Cup is coming in HOT in 2025!

[Bellhorn04]

Any talk on that Twins site about how they're the Yankees' whipping boys? 

[notin]

3 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Let's get their catcher back.

Easily done if we include a crate of tater tots.   
 

Anyone whose ever been to Minnesota knows that would work…