A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part I

[moonslav59]

I know it is not a popular opinion, but if Devers does play DH near FT, playing Yoshida and Ref in LF could very well be the plan. Duran in CF and Abreu/Rafaela platooning RF. It's not a bad hitting or defensive OF. 

The bigger choice to make will be when Anthony is ready.

If Devers plays at 3B, and Yoshida/Ref DH, now we may see Anthony and Campbell vice squeezing the OF. Rafaela as an expensive super utility guy is fine, but Abreu deserves to play vs RHPs, and so does Duran (vs both, IMO.).

[jdc69]

The skill sets of 3rd and 2nd look vastly different, especially throwing arm, which Bregman looks very capable of having. I would feel bad for Devers if they moved him to DH, considering that should be saved for aging stars, but I see no alternative. Hate to say it but in all reality, especially if our prospects and Casas pan out, Devers is the best trade piece, especially if he starts making a problem. 

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

The skill sets of 3rd and 2nd look vastly different, especially throwing arm, which Bregman looks very capable of having. I would feel bad for Devers if they moved him to DH, considering that should be saved for aging stars, but I see no alternative. Hate to say it but in all reality, especially if our prospects and Casas pan out, Devers is the best trade piece, especially if he starts making a problem. 

If Devers still wants to be part of the action, then grab a 1Bman's mitt and attempt to bat out the worst defensive 1Bman in MLB- Casas- for the 1Bman's job.

DH or pairshare Casas at DH.

[jdc69]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If Devers still wants to be part of the action, then grab a 1Bman's mitt and attempt to bat out the worst defensive 1Bman in MLB- Casas- for the 1Bman's job.

DH or pairshare Casas at DH.

I would be better with Devers on first. It's fair, because he's been our best player and fairness makes for a better locker room but yeah, Devers has to come half way. And if course he would probably be better at first.

[moonslav59]

58 minutes ago, jdc69 said:

I would be better with Devers on first. It's fair, because he's been our best player and fairness makes for a better locker room but yeah, Devers has to come half way. And if course he would probably be better at first.

All we've heard is DH and 3B, right?

(so far)

[Larry Cook]

Devers, Bregman, yoshida, cassas!!!!

we got four positions (DH, 2nd, 3rd and 1st) for four players. 
 

surely an Ivy League mind like bres-slow can figure out this out without damaging the moral of the players!!!!!!

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Larry Cook said:

Devers, Bregman, yoshida, cassas!!!!

we got four positions (DH, 2nd, 3rd and 1st) for four players. 
 

surely an Ivy League mind like bres-slow can figure out this out without damaging the moral of the players!!!!!!

This locks Bregman into 2B and does not mention LF as an option for Yoshida.

It's more complicated than you make it out to be, if Devers keeps balking at moving off 3B.

If Devers DH's, the Yoshida situation gest more complicated.

I have confidence Cora will work it out, but there are a lot of moving parts, and that's not even talking about Campbell and Anthony breaking down the door, at some point.

[moonslav59]

If Cora can put the best players on the field, where they best suit the interests of winning, we could have a pretty damn good hitting team, and a much improved defensive team.

1. L Duran  CF

2. R Bregman 3B

3. L Casas DH/1B

4. L Devers 1B/DH

5. R Campbell 2B

6. L Abreu RF / R Refsnyder LF (platoon)

7. R Story SS

8. L Yoshida LF/ R Rafaela RF (platoon)

9. R Wong

Bench: Narvaez, DHam, Abreu or Refsnyder & Yoshida or Rafaela.

If Anthony cracks the line-up, my guess is Yoshida and Rafaela sit, and Anthony bats 8th and plays CF v RHPs and RF vs LHPs.

Better D at SS, 3B, 2B, RF and maybe 1B. Not worse anywhere.

[Duran Is The Man]

32 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If Cora can put the best players on the field, where they best suit the interests of winning, we could have a pretty damn good hitting team, and a much improved defensive team.

1. L Duran  CF

2. R Bregman 3B

3. L Casas DH/1B

4. L Devers 1B/DH

5. R Campbell 2B

6. L Abreu RF / R Refsnyder LF (platoon)

7. R Story SS

8. L Yoshida LF/ R Rafaela RF (platoon)

9. R Wong

Bench: Narvaez, DHam, Abreu or Refsnyder & Yoshida or Rafaela.

If Anthony cracks the line-up, my guess is Yoshida and Rafaela sit, and Anthony bats 8th and plays CF v RHPs and RF vs LHPs.

Better D at SS, 3B, 2B, RF and maybe 1B. Not worse anywhere.

heckuva lineup. and it makes so much sense, it'll probably never happen. 

[oldtimer]

30 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

This locks Bregman into 2B and does not mention LF as an option for Yoshida.

It's more complicated than you make it out to be, if Devers keeps balking at moving off 3B.

If Devers DH's, the Yoshida situation gest more complicated.

I have confidence Cora will work it out, but there are a lot of moving parts, and that's not even talking about Campbell and Anthony breaking down the door, at some point.

Devers and Casas are two of our best hitters and both have  power potential. I finbd it doubtful that Sox management would risk the clubhouse upheaval of moving either from their hot corner positions despite their below league average defensive woes. That relegates Bregman to 2nd base. Each of the three could wind up as DH for short stints but the majority of their play will be at the expected positions. Story will line  up at SS as long as he can remain healthy.

In the outfield we have Duran as a lock. Abreau is solid and Rafaela is capable defensive;y but is a question mark at the plate.

It has been difficult to follow the Sox on the basis of a long term plan as they have had a terrible time of it for years. Still I remain hopeful and I think you do as well. Somehow, we have to incorporate are best prospect into the team sooner than later. That means Anthony, Campbell and Mayer. Bregman could opt out after a year. Yoshida is a bad fit for our team. 

We have a structurally weak defensive team and need to take drastic measures to correct the problems. Does management have the willingness to do so? I doubt it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

heckuva lineup. and it makes so much sense, it'll probably never happen. 

I don't think Cora is dumb.

I really don't think Devers is going to push this into an extreme drama.

I could see putting Devers 2nd. Maybe, someday Campbell bats 2nd.

[Hitch]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I know it is not a popular opinion, but if Devers does play DH near FT, playing Yoshida and Ref in LF could very well be the plan. Duran in CF and Abreu/Rafaela platooning RF. It's not a bad hitting or defensive OF. 

The bigger choice to make will be when Anthony is ready.

If Devers plays at 3B, and Yoshida/Ref DH, now we may see Anthony and Campbell vice squeezing the OF. Rafaela as an expensive super utility guy is fine, but Abreu deserves to play vs RHPs, and so does Duran (vs both, IMO.).

 Barring injury, trade or Rafaela's bat completely falling away the outfield is going to be Duran in left, Raf in centre and Abreu in right.

It's the one thing Bres and Cora have been consistent on all winter.

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Devers and Casas are two of our best hitters and both have  power potential. I finbd it doubtful that Sox management would risk the clubhouse upheaval of moving either from their hot corner positions despite their below league average defensive woes. That relegates Bregman to 2nd base. Each of the three could wind up as DH for short stints but the majority of their play will be at the expected positions. Story will line  up at SS as long as he can remain healthy.

In the outfield we have Duran as a lock. Abreau is solid and Rafaela is capable defensive;y but is a question mark at the plate.

It has been difficult to follow the Sox on the basis of a long term plan as they have had a terrible time of it for years. Still I remain hopeful and I think you do as well. Somehow, we have to incorporate are best prospect into the team sooner than later. That means Anthony, Campbell and Mayer. Bregman could opt out after a year. Yoshida is a bad fit for our team. 

We have a structurally weak defensive team and need to take drastic measures to correct the problems. Does management have the willingness to do so? I doubt it.

Great 3Bman often move to 1B, especially when their defense slips. Devers has never been a plus on D, and he's younger than many who have made the move in the past.

I do not see the move as being drastic, at all. It certainly seems like it is to Devers, right now, but that may be temporary.

Casas moving off 1B to DH has not been mentioned by anyone on the team, that I know of.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

 Barring injury, trade or Rafaela's bat completely falling away the outfield is going to be Duran in left, Raf in centre and Abreu in right.

It's the one thing Bres and Cora have been consistent on all winter.

Not really. He said Yoshida will see time in LF.

Most of the talk was before we had Bregman and the real possibility of Devers moving to DH. That would crowd Yoshida and Ref into OF only roles.

Don't be so sure.

Abreu may platoon RF, like he did last year, so that opens up some PAs for the RHB, Refsnyder, but I'm not so sure Yoshida will be benched, so this OF alignment can be etched in stone.

Rafaela is way better on D than Yoshida and Ref, but those two are way better batters.

[Hitch]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Not really. He said Yoshida will see time in LF.

Most of the talk was before we had Bregman and the real possibility of Devers moving to DH. That would crowd Yoshida and Ref into OF only roles.

Don't be so sure.

Abreu may platoon RF, like he did last year, so that opens up some PAs for the RHB, Refsnyder, but I'm not so sure Yoshida will be benched, so this OF alignment can be etched in stone.

Rafaela is way better on D than Yoshida and Ref, but those two are way better batters.

He said it once about Yoshida and it's a comment that seems to only be believed on this board. They've said it about Rafeala several times.

I am sure. And pretty confident in my surety. Res may well platoon with Abreu. Yoshida isn't getting much game time. And thats without Anthony coming up.

They're clearly looking to make this team a far stronger defensive team.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

He said it once about Yoshida and it's a comment that seems to only be believed on this board. They've said it about Rafeala several times.

I am sure. And pretty confident in my surety. Res may well platoon with Abreu. Yoshida isn't getting much game time. And thats without Anthony coming up.

They're clearly looking to make this team a far stronger defensive team.

He reaffirmed it, again, today:

“Masa is going to be part of the picture, yeah. We’ve just got to get him going,” Cora said. “Like I said, last year he was a DH, this year we need him to play defense. It’s a different season.”

 

“It’s a long process, it was a big surgery and he’s swinging right now,” Cora said. “He knows that we need him to play defense.”

[jdc69]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

All we've heard is DH and 3B, right?

(so far)

You mentioned Devers competing for 1st, during spring training against Casas I thought. I haven't heard anything from the FO about it though. It also makes sense and has been mentioned here before. Isnt Devers biggest problem on 3rd his arm and less his glove? That would be another reason for him to be on 1st. 

[Hitch]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

He reaffirmed it, again, today:

“Masa is going to be part of the picture, yeah. We’ve just got to get him going,” Cora said. “Like I said, last year he was a DH, this year we need him to play defense. It’s a different season.”

 

“It’s a long process, it was a big surgery and he’s swinging right now,” Cora said. “He knows that we need him to play defense.”

Yes because he was directly asked (by McAdam's I believe) what this means for his playing time has he has no spot at the moment. The second sentence makes it sound like he isn't even going to get DH at bats (which I think is likely if Devers is moved off 3rd).  Regardless, he can't come out and say - yeah we literally have no spot for him and a superstar on the way.

The Sox are almost certainly going with the line up I posted above. If they can live with JBJ's bat, they can live with Rafaela's who while not yet at JBJ's level, is certainly capable of GG defence in centre. 

Short of a cruel injury, I think Yoshida is going to be lucky to play once a week in the outfield (that's if he's even on the roster by the time the season kicks off), and not much more at DH if Devers is off 3rd.

[Hugh2]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

If Cora can put the best players on the field, where they best suit the interests of winning, we could have a pretty damn good hitting team, and a much improved defensive team.

1. L Duran  CF

2. R Bregman 3B

3. L Casas DH/1B

4. L Devers 1B/DH

5. R Campbell 2B

6. L Abreu RF / R Refsnyder LF (platoon)

7. R Story SS

8. L Yoshida LF/ R Rafaela RF (platoon)

9. R Wong

Bench: Narvaez, DHam, Abreu or Refsnyder & Yoshida or Rafaela.

If Anthony cracks the line-up, my guess is Yoshida and Rafaela sit, and Anthony bats 8th and plays CF v RHPs and RF vs LHPs.

Better D at SS, 3B, 2B, RF and maybe 1B. Not worse anywhere.

Casas, has about 1,000,000 times more reason to be pissed about moving off 1B than Devers does 3B.  Plus now you’re moving more guys off of position than just the one.

 

let the kid grow at 1B and the I field might be better off for it.  He’s young, talented, dedicated to the game, and there’s value in continuity. Devers can DH, at least 90% of the time.

[Old Red]

30 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Casas, has about 1,000,000 times more reason to be pissed about moving off 1B than Devers does 3B.  Plus now you’re moving more guys off of position than just the one.

 

let the kid grow at 1B and the I field might be better off for it.  He’s young, talented, dedicated to the game, and there’s value in continuity. Devers can DH, at least 90% of the time.

Exactly! One of the worst ideas I’ve heard many times over is for there to be a time share at 1B/DH between Raffy, and Casas. IMO that would be a bad idea, because whomever plays there needs the work there EVERYDAY. It would not help anyone defensively to rotate, and Casas, or Raffy would need all the work they could get.  To me a time share would complicate things even more. 

[mvp 78]

9 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

He reaffirmed it, again, today:

“Masa is going to be part of the picture, yeah. We’ve just got to get him going,” Cora said. “Like I said, last year he was a DH, this year we need him to play defense. It’s a different season.”

 

“It’s a long process, it was a big surgery and he’s swinging right now,” Cora said. “He knows that we need him to play defense.”

Ok, he said it multiple times and you believe him?!?!??!?!?!?

[moonslav59]

8 hours ago, jdc69 said:

You mentioned Devers competing for 1st, during spring training against Casas I thought. I haven't heard anything from the FO about it though. It also makes sense and has been mentioned here before. Isnt Devers biggest problem on 3rd his arm and less his glove? That would be another reason for him to be on 1st. 

Yes, I've said that about Devers main issue being the erratic arm, but I have not heard anything from anyone on the team about Devers at 1B or sharing it with Casas.

If part of Devers not wanting to DH has to do with hating to sit on the bench for half the game, then why not try 1B? It's unlikely he will suck anymore than Casas at 1B, but if he does, then DH him FT.

(We need a back-up 1Bman anyway. Right now, it's Romy, Wong or maybe Ref.)

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, Hitch said:

Yes because he was directly asked (by McAdam's I believe) what this means for his playing time has he has no spot at the moment. The second sentence makes it sound like he isn't even going to get DH at bats (which I think is likely if Devers is moved off 3rd).  Regardless, he can't come out and say - yeah we literally have no spot for him and a superstar on the way.

The Sox are almost certainly going with the line up I posted above. If they can live with JBJ's bat, they can live with Rafaela's who while not yet at JBJ's level, is certainly capable of GG defence in centre. 

Short of a cruel injury, I think Yoshida is going to be lucky to play once a week in the outfield (that's if he's even on the roster by the time the season kicks off), and not much more at DH if Devers is off 3rd.

They very well may severely limit Yoshida's ABs. He may even start the year on the IL.

As of now, we have two options, if we platoon Abreu in RF: a shaky Refsnyder or Rafaela. Playing Ref in RF is no worse than Yoshida in LF (at Fenway, anyway.)

If Rafaela plays RF vs LHPs, Duran moves to CF and Ref plays LF. There is no room for Yoshida vs LHPs.

Vs. RHPs, one could argue Yoshida's offense and poor LF defense still outweighs Rafaela's great CF D and awful offense, but it's not a clear cut choice. They could easily choose Rafaela in CF, and he plays FT (CF v R and RF v L.) That is a nice set-up, too, especially if Rafaela can hit better. Rafaela's reverse splits may be a fluke, and he's been so bad from both sides, that I'm not sure the L-R thing matters with him, but it does with Yoshida and Ref.

Cora has some choices and may mix and match to try and get everyone playing, just enough to not get pissed off. None of the guys I just mentioned should feel entitled to play, everyday, but Yoshida might feel he is.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Ok, he said it multiple times and you believe him?!?!??!?!?!?

Yes, I do.

I think he'll play Yoshida in LF vs RHPs more than Rafaela, but that assumes both are healthy and not doing anything radically different on O.

Do you see one choice as being clearly better than the other? 

I'm a big fan of up-the-middle D, but the O from Yoshida might outweigh benching Rafaela vs RHPs, and the drop from Rafaela to Duran in CF is not a big drop, if any at all.

Vs. RHPs:

A: LF Duran, CF Rafaela, RF Abreu is a damn good defensive OF.

B: LF Yoshida (Fenway) CF Duran, RF Abreu is not a bad D, overall and maybe 150 pts better in OPS between Yoshi & Rafaela. (Does Yoshida play RF in parks like NYY, and Abreu in LF?)

I could see Cora mixing these two up to get everyone playing.

[Hitch]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

They very well may severely limit Yoshida's ABs. He may even start the year on the IL.

As of now, we have two options, if we platoon Abreu in RF: a shaky Refsnyder or Rafaela. Playing Ref in RF is no worse than Yoshida in LF (at Fenway, anyway.)

If Rafaela plays RF vs LHPs, Duran moves to CF and Ref plays LF. There is no room for Yoshida vs LHPs.

Vs. RHPs, one could argue Yoshida's offense and poor LF defense still outweighs Rafaela's great CF D and awful offense, but it's not a clear cut choice. They could easily choose Rafaela in CF, and he plays FT (CF v R and RF v L.) That is a nice set-up, too, especially if Rafaela can hit better. Rafaela's reverse splits may be a fluke, and he's been so bad from both sides, that I'm not sure the L-R thing matters with him, but it does with Yoshida and Ref.

Cora has some choices and may mix and match to try and get everyone playing, just enough to not get pissed off. None of the guys I just mentioned should feel entitled to play, everyday, but Yoshida might feel he is.

He's going to play Duran in left, Rafaela in centre, and Abreu in right. Ref will come in with Abreu on some platoons I imagine. And not to mention Anthony is mere weeks/months away.

If your worst hitter's awful offence lands you 15 homers, 75 RBI's and 70 runs while giving you GG defence, I think they'll live with that just fine over Yoshida.  

And of course, they've been trying to get rid of Yoshida for about a year now, unless we are just flat out refusing to believe people like Cortillo, McAdams and The Athletic crew? It's always fascinating to see what people will close their eyes and ears to so long as it backs up what they've already decided.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, Hitch said:

He's going to play Duran in left, Rafaela in centre, and Abreu in right. Ref will come in with Abreu on some platoons I imagine. And not to mention Anthony is mere weeks/months away.

If your worst hitter's awful offence lands you 15 homers, 75 RBI's and 70 runs while giving you GG defence, I think they'll live with that just fine over Yoshida.  

And of course, they've been trying to get rid of Yoshida for about a year now, unless we are just flat out refusing to believe people like Cortillo, McAdams and The Athletic crew? It's always fascinating to see what people will close their eyes and ears to so long as it backs up what they've already decided.

I'm curious why you sure of this alignment. I'm thinking he mixes and matches, like he did, last year. While there should not be a need for Rafaela at SS, this year, O'Neall is gone, so about the same amount of PAs are available for Duran, Rafaela, Abreu and the RH platoon bat for Abreu.

While it does seem there is little room for another LHB outfielder, my "guess" is Yoshida sees more time that you think. I'd say probably less than I think, but I have no number. If I had to project, I'd say 175-250 PAs in the OF and 50-150 at DH, depending on Devers at DH. (It could be 400-550 at DH and 0-50 in the OF, if Devers plays FT 3B.)

Last year, we saw this...

735 Duran

428 Abreu

392 O'Neall

273 Rafaela

235 Refsnyder

17 Romy, Dalbec, Yoshida & Wong.

I could see about half of O'neals OF PAs going to Rafaela and half to Yoshida.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

17 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

 

I really don't think Devers is going to push this into an extreme drama.

 

And what exactly leads you to believe this?

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm curious why you sure of this alignment. I'm thinking he mixes and matches, like he did, last year. While there should not be a need for Rafaela at SS, this year, O'Neall is gone, so about the same amount of PAs are available for Duran, Rafaela, Abreu and the RH platoon bat for Abreu.

While it does seem there is little room for another LHB outfielder, my "guess" is Yoshida sees more time that you think. I'd say probably less than I think, but I have no number. If I had to project, I'd say 175-250 PAs in the OF and 50-150 at DH, depending on Devers at DH. (It could be 400-550 at DH and 0-50 in the OF, if Devers plays FT 3B.)

Last year, we saw this...

735 Duran

428 Abreu

392 O'Neall

273 Rafaela

235 Refsnyder

17 Romy, Dalbec, Yoshida & Wong.

I could see about half of O'neals OF PAs going to Rafaela and half to Yoshida.

Forget about last year. SS, 2B, and 1B base were pretty much revolving doors, because of injuries. If you don’t have all the injuries this year you don’t have all the revolving doors, and NO need for as many platoons. Bregman, Raffy, Story, Casas, Duran are all FT players. As it is now I think the RAF Man will be pretty much too. I know what Cora has said, but I don’t expect to see Masa in the OF if he is even still here.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Forget about last year. SS, 2B, and 1B base were pretty much revolving doors, because of injuries. If you don’t have all the injuries this year you don’t have all the revolving doors, and NO need for as many platoons. Bregman, Raffy, Story, Casas, Duran are all FT players. As it is now I think the RAF Man will be pretty much too. I know what Cora has said, but I don’t expect to see Masa in the OF if he is even still here.

Fine to give your opinion but nothing about why you think Masa will not play much.

Abreu is horrific vs LHPs, so you hate platoons all you want, but Ref is a top 12 batter vs LHPs and will be playing somewhere: OF or DH vs LHPs.

Where and when Yoshida plays is an open book. Nobody knows.

I said what I think they should do, but I am not saying Cora will do it. IMO, he will do a little of what I think and a little of what others think. Maybe, one works better than the other, and he goes that way more often.

I'm not hoping Yoshida plays the OF, a lot. I think Cora will try to play all his players, as he has in the past. How he does it is in question.

[Hitch]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm curious why you sure of this alignment. I'm thinking he mixes and matches, like he did, last year. While there should not be a need for Rafaela at SS, this year, O'Neall is gone, so about the same amount of PAs are available for Duran, Rafaela, Abreu and the RH platoon bat for Abreu.

While it does seem there is little room for another LHB outfielder, my "guess" is Yoshida sees more time that you think. I'd say probably less than I think, but I have no number. If I had to project, I'd say 175-250 PAs in the OF and 50-150 at DH, depending on Devers at DH. (It could be 400-550 at DH and 0-50 in the OF, if Devers plays FT 3B.)

Last year, we saw this...

735 Duran

428 Abreu

392 O'Neall

273 Rafaela

235 Refsnyder

17 Romy, Dalbec, Yoshida & Wong.

I could see about half of O'neals OF PAs going to Rafaela and half to Yoshida.

I'm.sure because between him and Bres they have said on 3 separate occasions Rafaela is their CF. Duran has also said he had no problem moving as Rafaela was a gold glove wanting to happen in CF.

Last year doesn't matter. Injuries and revolving doors at several positions meant players (Rafaela in particular) were all over the place.

If we get a raft of injjuries again, anything can happen, but otherwise Duran, Raf, Abreu is our starting alignment with Ref, Yoshida (if he's here) and eventually Anthony swapping in.