Do Not Trade The Big 3

[notin]

Yes. That is why Bloom is out and Breslow is in. We have to give him a chance.

 

It is a bit shocking that Breslow could put together a team that has outperformed expectations by a lot, and folks are still reluctant to give him a chance…

[moonslav59]

The baseball people haven’t gotten much right since 2018.

 

Are we better, now than we were in 2019 and 2020?

 

Even if Sale and ERod were healthy for 2020, this team is better.

 

They had to do a few things right to make that happen, and the farm is way better than it was in 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021.

[Old Red]

Yes. That is why Bloom is out and Breslow is in. We have to give him a chance.

 

We don’t have a choice, but he is on the clock.

[Bellhorn04]

It is a bit shocking that Breslow could put together a team that has outperformed expectations by a lot, and folks are still reluctant to give him a chance…

 

Who's not giving him a chance?

[Bellhorn04]

Are we better, now than we were in 2019 and 2020?

 

Even if Sale and ERod were healthy for 2020, this team is better.

 

To be totally blunt and data-based about it, it's not for sure that this team is better than either the 2019 team or the 2021 team.

 

It's all about how we finish.

[Old Red]

To be totally blunt and data-based about it, it's not for sure that this team is better than either the 2019 team or the 2021 team.

 

It's all about how we finish.

I guess some haven’t learned that lesson about how the team finishes. The 2019 team was loaded from the 2018, and the 2021 team had talent as well. I would take both of those teams right now for this season.

[moonslav59]

It is a bit shocking that Breslow could put together a team that has outperformed expectations by a lot, and folks are still reluctant to give him a chance…

 

While I agree with your point, and bringing Bailey aboard might have been his best winter move, this team is largely Bloom & DD's.

 

DD was roundly criticized for "emptying the farm," and yet here we are enjoying several of his prospects and some of Ben's not traded away.

 

Bloom was criticized, and rightfully so, for not winning more games, but many hardly ever give him credit for rebuilding the foundational depth and farm to respectability. He also did not trade away key prospects chasing wild miracle hopes in 2022 and 2023. Many here, including me and you, suggested we trade Duran. Many disliked the Vaz-Abreu/Valdez trade. I could go on, but it's all been rehashed, enough.

 

On the surface, look at Brez's winter moves:

 

FA/Rule 5/Waivers

Giolito

Criswell & Anderson

Slaten

Romy & Booser

Hendriks & Fulmer

DSmith & Keller

Westbrook & Spears

 

Trades:

O'Neill for Robertson & Santos

Grissom for Sale

Weissert & Fitts for Dugo

ICampbell for Urias

Sandlin (Rule 5 trade)

Cooper, Horn, Wingenter & Heineman

 

It kinda looks like a Bloom winter: restricted by budget constraints, top spending failures, and some gems found at lower costs.

 

His two best moves for 2024, only, look to be O'Neal and Slaten, who is now on the IL. (Just before yesterday's game, even O'Neill was being bashed.)

[Bellhorn04]

His very best move does look like Andrew Bailey.

[moonslav59]

To be totally blunt and data-based about it, it's not for sure that this team is better than either the 2019 team or the 2021 team.

 

It's all about how we finish.

 

Indeed. I was talking about this team, as of right now. We may finish poorly.

 

I was also talking about the future outlook of this team vs that after 2019 and 2020. Your point about after 2021 is a good one and well-taken.

 

[Old Red]

While I agree with your point, and bringing Bailey aboard might have been his best winter move, this team is largely Bloom & DD's.

 

DD was roundly criticized for "emptying the farm," and yet here we are enjoying several of his prospects and some of Ben's not traded away.

 

Bloom was criticized, and rightfully so, for not winning more games, but many hardly ever give him credit for rebuilding the foundational depth and farm to respectability. He also did not trade away key prospects chasing wild miracle hopes in 2022 and 2023. Many here, including me and you, suggested we trade Duran. Many disliked the Vaz-Abreu/Valdez trade. I could go on, but it's all been rehashed, enough.

 

On the surface, look at Brez's winter moves:

 

FA/Rule 5/Waivers

Giolito

Criswell & Anderson

Slaten

Romy & Booser

Hendriks & Fulmer

DSmith & Keller

Westbrook & Spears

 

Trades:

O'Neill for Robertson & Santos

Grissom for Sale

Weissert & Fitts for Dugo

ICampbell for Urias

Sandlin (Rule 5 trade)

Cooper, Horn, Wingenter & Heineman

 

It kinda looks like a Bloom winter: restricted by budget constraints, top spending failures, and some gems found at lower costs.

 

His two best moves for 2024, only, look to be O'Neal and Slaten, who is now on the IL. (Just before yesterday's game, even O'Neill was being bashed.)

O’Neil was being bashed before yesterday’s game? Oh no say it ain’t so.

[Bellhorn04]

Indeed. I was talking about this team, as of right now. We may finish poorly.

 

I was also talking about the future outlook of this team vs that after 2019 and 2020. Your point about after 2021 is a good one and well-taken.

 

 

The outlook in 2019 didn't look that bleak to me until Henry decided to prove otherwise...

[Bellhorn04]

O’Neil was being bashed before yesterday’s game? Oh no say it ain’t so.

 

That was mostly what should be called "game threader" bashing LOL

[moonslav59]

His very best move does look like Andrew Bailey.

 

Agreed.

 

1. Bailey

2. Slaten

3. O'Neill

4. Criswell

5. Maybe Fitts & Sandlin (potential value)

 

Romy, Booser & Anderson have been okay.

 

Maybe these guys up their stock, going forward:

Grissom

Weissert

I Campbell

Gio, Hendriks & Fulmer

Lower level prospects obtained

Draft and IFA additions

[Old Red]

That was mostly what should be called "game threader" bashing LOL

 

That’s what one on here doesn’t understand at all. From one game to one pitch even someone can go from GOshida to NOshida, and even Devers Forever, to Never Devers on the game threads. Always have, and always will, but most understand that.

[moonslav59]

That was mostly what should be called "game threader" bashing LOL

 

Mostly, yes, but a few seem to have disliked him, all along, or when slumping spoke like that was what he truly was.

 

One poster hated the "roid" guy addition from day one.

 

One of the few areas our GMs have done pretty good on is adding one year OF'ers:

Pillar '20

Renfroe '21

Duvall '23

O'Neill '24

 

The big swing and miss was JBJ in '22 (had a second year option)

The Kike addition in 2021 worked, too, but that was his two year deal.

Marwin was IF/OF and a miss.

Kike II was a big miss.

 

[dgalehouse]

That’s what one on here doesn’t understand at all. From one game to one pitch even someone can go from GOshida to NOshida, and even Devers Forever, to Never Devers on the game threads. Always have, and always will, but most understand that.

 

Game threads are a mixture of emotions, sarcasm, humor, hope, " expertise", anger and despair. Kind of like a bunch of guys watching the game at a bar.

[Bellhorn04]

Game threads are a mixture of emotions, sarcasm, humor, hope, " expertise", anger and despair. Kind of like a bunch of guys watching the game at a bar.

 

Yes, and like those guys at the bar, they make less and less sense as the game progresses and the booze flows...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yes, and like those guys at the bar, they make less and less sense as the game progresses and the booze flows...

 

... and as the game progresses -- and dugouts keep calling bullpens -- guys at the bar make more sense ordering more drinks.

 

Watching baseball is like chicken and the eggnog.

[Bellhorn04]

... and as the game progresses -- and dugouts keep calling bullpens -- guys at the bar make more sense ordering more drinks.

 

Watching baseball is like chicken and the eggnog.

 

True confessions time:

 

I don't watch much game action any more, and when I do watch it's when the Sox are at bat, or one of our pitchers is really dealing LOL.

 

My blood pressure is already way too high and my nerves aren't the best either.

 

I have MLB.tv but I'm usually following on GameDay while I do other internet things.

 

OTOH I rarely wake up in the morning without knowing the score of yesterday's Sox game.

[mvp 78]

Game threads are a mixture of emotions, sarcasm, humor, hope, " expertise", anger and despair. Kind of like a bunch of guys watching the game at a bar.

 

When the lights finally come on after last call everyone is sliding into my DM’s! I do not consent!!!

[Elktonnick]

My fear is that after the Dodgers series, ownership will decide not to make any significant moves to improve the team by the trade deadline.

[notin]

My fear is that after the Dodgers series, ownership will decide not to make any significant moves to improve the team by the trade deadline.

 

There are still 10 more days. They’re just going to ignore them?

 

If anything this series highlighted the reason to add help. They did have the lead in the 8th and 9th inning of the first two games and lost them both…

[moonslav59]

There are still 10 more days. They’re just going to ignore them?

 

If anything this series highlighted the reason to add help. They did have the lead in the 8th and 9th inning of the first two games and lost them both…

 

There really doesn't seem to be a runaway AL top team, so in that way, I think the AL Championship is pretty much a "crapshoot." (Did I just say that?)

 

As of now, I think we should pick the buyer's lane, but 10 more days could change that, reinforce it or make it obvious to buy.

 

[Duran Is The Man]

There are still 10 more days. They’re just going to ignore them?

 

If anything this series highlighted the reason to add help. They did have the lead in the 8th and 9th inning of the first two games and lost them both…

 

exactly. but i seriously doubt Henry give Brez the green light to do anything that involves spending money.

[moonslav59]

exactly. but i seriously doubt Henry give Brez the green light to do anything that involves spending money.

 

We could be serious buyers without it costing all that much. Guys like Crochet and Skubal have 2 arbs, left and don't cost much, this year.

 

We could get both and still cut salary, next year by not replacing Jansen, Martin, O'Neill and Pivetta.

[Duran Is The Man]

We could be serious buyers without it costing all that much. Guys like Crochet and Skubal have 2 arbs, left and don't cost much, this year.

 

We could get both and still cut salary, next year by not replacing Jansen, Martin, O'Neill and Pivetta.

 

and to get those guys, you'd have to do what DD was always accused of but never really did -"destroy the farm". i guess we'll see how smart Brez really is the next 10 days.

[moonslav59]

and to get those guys, you'd have to do what DD was always accused of but never really did -"destroy the farm". i guess we'll see how smart Brez really is the next 10 days.

 

We could get both and still have a decent farm, but getting one is certainly doable, while keeping enough of a farm to keep the future looking bright.

 

We have 3 big prospects and the second tier 3 are poised to form a new "big 3."

 

I think we can get Crochet or Skubal for 1 of the big 3 and maybe 1-2 prospects from #7 and below. I could be wrong. Maybe it takes a top 3 and a 4-6.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We could get both and still have a decent farm, but getting one is certainly doable, while keeping enough of a farm to keep the future looking bright.

 

We have 3 big prospects and the second tier 3 are poised to form a new "big 3."

 

I think we can get Crochet or Skubal for 1 of the big 3 and maybe 1-2 prospects from #7 and below. I could be wrong. Maybe it takes a top 3 and a 4-6.

 

I'd be shocked if Breslow the individual is allowed to veer from the plan put in place the past half decade by the dozens of incumbent Assistant Vice Presidents comprising the Red Sox Front Office.

 

Remember, these are the people who have been empowered ever since future Hall of Fame GM Dave Dombrowski was fired for reportedly ignoring their input.

 

Investing in pitchers at any age is riskier than ever across the majors, as both starters and relievers arm-wrestle for spots on the IL (using their glove hands).

 

For rebuilding teams, star prospect capital simply cannot be squandered on trades for arms -- it's just a low-percentage move deemed unacceptable by analytic departments driven by the odds. But that doesn't mean Boston will instead look to free agency for pitching and outbid big spenders for aces like Burnes or the next Yamamoto (Roki Sasaki?).

 

Be prepared for more modest additions, with Sam Kennedy and new manager Varitek insisting that comebacks by Giolito and Hendriks will be just as impactful as any of the coveted hurlers on the next market...

[Hugh2]

The Sox have to do something, maybe that can't "veer off the plan" but perhaps they should at least consider a pit stop?

 

I wonder if Breslow has some kind of mandate to "have fun at the deadline, but don't touch Mayer/Teel/Anthony" Even then perhaps he could peition to change their mind if the right offer came in.

 

I'm the biggest prospect homer on earth, I want all the draft picks and all the prospects I can get, and I believe in building up a farm system. But a farm system exists to support the big league club, and you do that by developing guys and also trading for them; sometimes you have to cash in your chips and get that shiny new mlber. No one wants to part with the big three, but if the Sox got a young starter back in return, or heck even a position player who bats right handed with big power I'd be fine with it. I'm fine with multiple alternate futures, as long as they don't sit on their hands and do absolutley NOTHING.

[moonslav59]

I'd be shocked if Breslow the individual is allowed to veer from the plan put in place the past half decade by the dozens of incumbent Assistant Vice Presidents comprising the Red Sox Front Office.

 

Remember, these are the people who have been empowered ever since future Hall of Fame GM Dave Dombrowski was fired for reportedly ignoring their input.

 

Investing in pitchers at any age is riskier than ever across the majors, as both starters and relievers arm-wrestle for spots on the IL (using their glove hands).

 

For rebuilding teams, star prospect capital simply cannot be squandered on trades for arms -- it's just a low-percentage move deemed unacceptable by analytic departments driven by the odds. But that doesn't mean Boston will instead look to free agency for pitching and outbid big spenders for aces like Burnes or the next Yamamoto (Roki Sasaki?).

 

Be prepared for more modest additions, with Sam Kennedy and new manager Varitek insisting that comebacks by Giolito and Hendriks will be just as impactful as any of the coveted hurlers on the next market...

 

I’m more than prepared: I expect nothing major, this deadline and this coming winter, too.

 

I’m just voicing my view that we are overloaded on everyday players,especially in the OF and with LHBs. We should trade from our strength to address our higher need areas.

 

We also have too much quantity and not enough high quality players. One or two trades of3 for 1 seems justified.