The Grissom Watch

[mvp 78]

Naylor worked out, but most of the other names have not. Lucchesi, Quantrill, Myers, Patino. There was also another outfielder the Sox could have taken in place of Naylor.

 

I don’t think Campusano was in the final offer…

 

We have no idea what the final offer was, just the names people assumed were discussed.

[Old Red]

We have no idea what the final offer was, just the names people assumed were discussed.

 

I wonder the names that DD was discussing with the Dodgers during the 2019 season, but backed out on the talks.

[Bellhorn04]

After 167 innings?

 

You’re desperately trying to sell hindsight here…

 

I was talking about his defensive numbers for all 3 MLB part seasons, BTW.

 

Every single number is negative.

[mvp 78]

Also, aside from 2023, Quantrill has been a fairly decent SP. He's not a TOTR guy, but is a decent 3/4.

 

Everyone is excited about Jordan Hicks 46th in fWAR at 0.8 fWAR. Quantrill is right behind him at 0.7 fWAR.

[mvp 78]

I wonder the names that DD was discussing with the Dodgers during the 2019 season, but backed out on the talks.

 

@redsoxstats

Will Smith was the focal point of Mookie Betts trade discussions in 2019, but the deal got scuttled when the Red Sox got hot just before the trade deadline.

 

The Will Smith name was initially brought up by Speier and he's not a guy who just throws s*** at the wall.

[Old Red]

Sale was rocked today by the A’s.

 

4 inn

9 H

8 ER

Ouch!

[Hugh2]

Sale was rocked today by the A’s.

 

4 inn

9 H

8 ER

Ouch!

 

Yeah, well everyone is going to have a stinker here and there. I wouldn't be concerned about his health being the cause unless his velo was down, I only saw the read out of a few pitches but it doesn't look like it was. Even the best of the best have bad days.

[Bellhorn04]

Sale was rocked today by the A’s.

 

4 inn

9 H

8 ER

Ouch!

 

And Grissom responds by getting injured again. Talk about not being able to catch a break.

[Elktonnick]

And Grissom responds by getting injured again. Talk about not being able to catch a break.

Why would anyone think they could catch a break? They can barely catch anything at all!LOL

[Randy Red Sox]

And Grissom responds by getting injured again. Talk about not being able to catch a break.

 

meanwhile Chris Sale is 8-1 with the Braves and a 3.06 era and a whip under 1.00 but keep telling ourselves we won that trade.

[notin]

meanwhile Chris Sale is 8-1 with the Braves and a 3.06 era and a whip under 1.00 but keep telling ourselves we won that trade.

 

Nobody says that, but a lot of people say it gets said…

[notin]

Yeah, well everyone is going to have a stinker here and there. I wouldn't be concerned about his health being the cause unless his velo was down, I only saw the read out of a few pitches but it doesn't look like it was. Even the best of the best have bad days.

 

Agreed.

 

One bad game does not a season ruin…

[moonslav59]

We've had a 5 game win streak (and 6 out of 7), two 4 game win streaks and a 4 and 1 stretch. That's basically it. Those 4 mini good stretches totaled a record of 18-2.

The rest of the season has been at 12-28.

 

Although the last 10 days or so has seemed like win one-lose one, we've really been a pretty streaky team- just nothing long- good or bad.

 

Our worst losing stretches are:

4 in a row

5 out of 6, twice

(I'm not counting 1-3 stretches as just one win flips it to .500)

These three bad stretches totaled a record of 2-13. The rest of the season was at 28-17.

 

We really need a good stretch of a couple weeks or more, but with the schedule coming up, I'm not sure that happens, soon, if at all. Maybe after the NYY series...

 

2 ATL

4 CWS

3 PHI

3 NYY

3 TOR

3 CIN

3 TOR

3 SDP

3 MIA

The Padres are not easy, but not great either. We have to beat TOR to have a chance. That 15 game stretch from June 17 to Jul 4 might be our best chance to make some serious gains in the standing.

 

Even if we do, it might not be enough.

[Maxbialystock]

We've had a 5 game win streak (and 6 out of 7), two 4 game win streaks and a 4 and 1 stretch. That's basically it. Those 4 mini good stretches totaled a record of 18-2.

The rest of the season has been at 12-28.

 

Although the last 10 days or so has seemed like win one-lose one, we've really been a pretty streaky team- just nothing long- good or bad.

 

Our worst losing stretches are:

4 in a row

5 out of 6, twice

(I'm not counting 1-3 stretches as just one win flips it to .500)

These three bad stretches totaled a record of 2-13. The rest of the season was at 28-17.

 

We really need a good stretch of a couple weeks or more, but with the schedule coming up, I'm not sure that happens, soon, if at all. Maybe after the NYY series...

 

2 ATL

4 CWS

3 PHI

3 NYY

3 TOR

3 CIN

3 TOR

3 SDP

3 MIA

The Padres are not easy, but not great either. We have to beat TOR to have a chance. That 15 game stretch from June 17 to Jul 4 might be our best chance to make some serious gains in the standing.

 

Even if we do, it might not be enough.

 

Sensible, as always. You've drifted away from Grissom, but there really isn't much more to say about him or the trade. I think the Braves badly outfoxed us, but agree it's still early.

 

Meanwhile, as your periodic statistical laydowns show us, the Sox have issues with defense, timely hitting, and, more recently, pitching.

[vegasbob]

Sensible, as always. You've drifted away from Grissom, but there really isn't much more to say about him or the trade. I think the Braves badly outfoxed us, but agree it's still early.

 

Meanwhile, as your periodic statistical laydowns show us, the Sox have issues with defense, timely hitting, and, more recently, pitching.

 

After July 4, the buy or sell discussion can ramp up, the A-S break happens and then finally, we can see if this CBO is a fumbler, stumbler, mumbler committed to the company line or a dumper of older guys who might be rentals for a true contender looking for a spark, while the Red Sox build a little deeper for 2025/26.

 

I did read a piece where some ex-execs ( Jim Bowden) and others anonymous really trashed the Yoshida deal and call him untradable . That deal could somehow right itself if Yoshi became an Ichiro machine with high BA, OBP but so far Ichiro Suzuki remains pretty much miles out of Yoshi's reach. If the left thumb becomes a chronic condition affecting his swing, it could be a 3 more year disaster.

[vegasbob]

I only hope Gruesome does not fall of the MRI machine and bang his elbow . Just trying to get back on the thread topic.

[Bellhorn04]

.650 OPS at Woo in 124 PA's.

 

Poor Griss continues to check all the boxes for a disastrous debut season with us.

[moonslav59]

.650 OPS at Woo in 124 PA's.

 

Poor Griss continues to check all the boxes for a disastrous debut season with us.

 

He's looking more like Jeter Downs than even Pablo Reyes.

[notin]

It’s been a bad year, but I still have some faith the Sox FO knew what they were doing. And even Atlanta valued him enough to demand Boston pay the bulk of Sale’s freight if Grissom was included…

[Bellhorn04]

It’s been a bad year, but I still have some faith the Sox FO knew what they were doing. And even Atlanta valued him enough to demand Boston pay the bulk of Sale’s freight if Grissom was included…

 

I remain a doubter. When you look closely at his numbers, the lack of home run power really stands out, even in his minor league seasons with high OPS.

[moonslav59]

I remain a doubter. When you look closely at his numbers, the lack of home run power really stands out, even in his minor league seasons with high OPS.

 

Power isn't everything, but he has not looked like he can even get 20 2Bs a year.

 

I've not given up on him, but I am much more a doubter than I was shorty after the trade. At least he has several years to prove he belongs in the bigs. If Mayer gets promoted, we may not need hi, anyway.

[Maxbialystock]

I remain a doubter. When you look closely at his numbers, the lack of home run power really stands out, even in his minor league seasons with high OPS.

 

I'm a doubter too. Too many folks over-rate the 2b position, which this year has been adequate, especially after Valdez went back to Worcester. The best Sox team ever, 2018, had freaking Nunez (WAR -1.4) at second base.

 

In other words, Breslow gave up a great starter, Sale, in return for a worthless second baseman he didn't need in the first place--on a team whose fundamental shortfall/need is pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

 

And, yes, I agree we could not be sure in 2023 that Sale would be good in 2024. Nevertheless, keeping him--especially since we're paying his salary anyway--was better than giving him away.

[vegasbob]

To be sure, Vaughn Grissom will be given the chance to maybe play a few games ( FT/PT) before season end, especially if Sox or non-contenders by mid September . Then he will have to go to Ft. Myers trying to win a spot on the 2025 team, that will be crowded with other young guys who have more experience from this year ( Romy, DHam, Valdez, Sogard) , not to mention the potential of a AAA breakthrough guy.

 

Story will get one of the 2 MI positions, as long as he can last, so there isn't a lot of room for Grissom to be subpar . With his possible vulnerability to hamstring injuries , he is just as likely to cancel himself as not.

Edited August 21, 2024 by vegasbob

[notin]

To be sure, Vaughn Grissom will be given the chance to maybe play a few games ( FT/PT) before season end, especially if Sox or non-contenders by mid September . Then he will have to go to Ft. Myers trying to win a spot on the 2024 team, that will be crowded with other young guys who have more experience from this year ( Romy, DHam, Valdez, Sogard) , not to mention the potential of a AAA breakthrough guy.

 

Story will get one of the 2 MI positions, as long as he can last, so there isn't a lot of room for Grissom to be subpar . With his possible vulnerability to hamstring injuries , he is just as likely to cancel himself as not.

 

This year nonwithstanding, there are a few reasons to think Grissom can outperform that crowd of AAAA players and utility infielders…

[vegasbob]

This year nonwithstanding, there are a few reasons to think Grissom can outperform that crowd of AAAA players and utility infielders…

 

Could one of those few reasons be that none of the current players are particularly good fielders ? Another could be his RH bat, if he can have a good OBP , but Romy is RH as well and at least can fill at 3B and 1 b where there is no specific depth . The years of control also benefit Grissom, but not a serious advantage over the other young guys.

 

My current observation of Gonzalez is that he needs to keep his hitting stats on track, and like others, improve his pitch recognition to get further ahead

[moonslav59]

I'm a doubter too. Too many folks over-rate the 2b position, which this year has been adequate, especially after Valdez went back to Worcester. The best Sox team ever, 2018, had freaking Nunez (WAR -1.4) at second base.

 

In other words, Breslow gave up a great starter, Sale, in return for a worthless second baseman he didn't need in the first place--on a team whose fundamental shortfall/need is pitching, pitching, and more pitching.

 

And, yes, I agree we could not be sure in 2023 that Sale would be good in 2024. Nevertheless, keeping him--especially since we're paying his salary anyway--was better than giving him away.

 

Our 2B position has been 29th or 30th in many categories from 2019-2023, combined: defense, offense, anything and everything.

 

We don't have to be number 1, or even #15, but 30th hurts the team.

 

The DHam-Romy platoon ha sstabilized the position, this year, and the SBs has boosted their value, but nobody expected them to play like this. In fact, DHam was last year's Grissom.

[notin]

Could one of those few reasons be that none of the current players are particularly good fielders ? Another could be his RH bat, if he can have a good OBP , but Romy is RH as well and at least can fill at 3B and 1 b where there is no specific depth . The years of control also benefit Grissom, but not a serious advantage over the other young guys.

 

My current observation of Gonzalez is that he needs to keep his hitting stats on track, and like others, improve his pitch recognition to get further ahead

 

Grissom is a 23yo player who smashed the Atlanta farm system, graduating within 3 years and getting better at every level. Romy is a role player you don’t want to see out there 130 games a year. Sogard has a ceiling of utility infielder. Hamilton has exciting speed but is a weak fielder and whose hitting has dropped off. Valdez is a LF/DH miscast in the middle infield…

[moonslav59]

Grissom is a 23yo player who smashed the Atlanta farm system, graduating within 3 years and getting better at every level. Romy is a role player you don’t want to see out there 130 games a year. Sogard has a ceiling of utility infielder. Hamilton has exciting speed but is a weak fielder and whose hitting has dropped off. Valdez is a LF/DH miscast in the middle infield…

 

I do think of all these players listed, Grissom might have the best chance at being a FT 2Bman, someday. It's a close call between he and DHam, IMO.

 

Valdez looks like a platoon DH,a nd how many of them are around?

[vegasbob]

I do think Enmanuel Valdez had enough exposure and opportunity to show that he is very unlikely to be part of a long term plan. An emergency call-up due to injury next year? That is probably his ceiling . He is a good example of the talent/skill difference in all aspects of a player between AAA and MLB.

[moonslav59]

I do think Enmanuel Valdez had enough exposure and opportunity to show that he is very unlikely to be part of a long term plan. An emergency call-up due to injury next year? That is probably his ceiling . He is a good example of the talent/skill difference in all aspects of a player between AAA and MLB.

 

Two interesting notes on Enmanuel:

 

1. He still leads the team in PAs as a 2Bman in 2024 with 175. DHam is a distant 2nd at 100 as a 2Bman.

 

2. He has a .946 OPS in his last 90 PAs (June 1>)

 

He might be back as a LF'er/DH/