The Grissom Watch

[notin]

From all the reports I read it was all Atlanta’s doing on the extension, and not Anything from Sale asking for, or demanding. A lack of a report saying Sale was demanding does mean something.

 

There is almost no chance Atlanta gave a pitcher who has been averaging less than 40 IP per year an extension so quickly unless they had to. I suppose Sale could have been opportunistic and asked for more years or he wasn’t going to approvr the trade. Very unlikely Atlanta just extended him so quickly for no other reason…

[Old Red]

The lack of a report means nothing.

 

Atlanta extended an oft-injured pitcher for 2 years long before spring training and only 3 days after the trade. This almost always means the extension was necessary in order to get the player to approve the trade...

 

Another report I read from an interview with the Braves POBO said that he inquired about Sale in the offseason before the 2023 season, and also last year during the season, and nothing could be worked out with Bloom, so they had been interested in Sale for a while, and once again it sounded like the extension was all on Atlanta, and not, because of any demands from Sale.

[Old Red]

There is almost no chance Atlanta gave a pitcher who has been averaging less than 40 IP per year an extension so quickly unless they had to. I suppose Sale could have been opportunistic and asked for more years or he wasn’t going to approvr the trade. Very unlikely Atlanta just extended him so quickly for no other reason…

 

No chance is your opinion/suggestion/prediction, or whatever you want to call it, but unless you can find something to the contrary I’d say you are most likely wrong again, and again, and again.🤭🙈

[notin]

Zero service time: Eloy, Luis Robert, Colt Keith, Evan White, Kingery, Singleton

 

50 or less: Salvador Perez, Rafaela, Carroll, Longoria, Matt Moore

 

Others: Lowe 58, Harris II 81, Franco 104, Tim Anderson 115, DeJong 124, Julio Rodriguez 141, Archer 156, Acuna 165

 

Varying degrees of success there.

 

Evan White is the only glove-first guy on the list, and he plays an unusual position to reward a player for that skill…

[notin]

No chance is your opinion/suggestion/prediction, or whatever you want to call it, but unless you can find something to the contrary I’d say you are most likely wrong again, and again, and again.

 

There is a long history of these immediate extensions becoming contingenies for players approving trades. It’s ignorant to simply says it’s incorrect when it’s a very distinct and likely possibility…

Edited May 28, 2024 by notin

[notin]

Another report I read from an interview with the Braves POBO said that he inquired about Sale in the offseason before the 2023 season, and also last year during the season, and nothing could be worked out with Bloom, so they had been interested in Sale for a while, and once again it sounded like the extension was all on Atlanta, and not, because of any demands from Sale.

 

That’s very possible. Supposedly a team inquired about Sale and was willing to take his entire contract in 2022, but Bloom declined because the return was negligible. Then Sale went for a bike ride and ended that.

 

That unnamed team could have certainly been the Braves…

[Old Red]

That’s very possible. Supposedly a team inquired about Sale and was willing to take his entire contract in 2022, but abloom declined because the return was negligible. Then Sale went for a bike ride and ended that.

 

That unnamed team could have certainly been the Braves…

Just remember the new deal the Braves gave Sale lowers his salary for this year, which the Red Sox are paying, and Atlanta is on the books next year for $22M. Sales gets an extra $10.5M guaranteed money in the deal, and then a wait, and see for 2026. It’s not like Atlanta is throwing all kinds of money Sale’s way.

[notin]

Just remember the new deal the Braves gave Sale lowers his salary for this year, which the Red Sox are paying, and Atlanta is on the books next year for $22M. Sales gets an extra $10.5M guaranteed money in the deal, and then a wait, and see for 2026. It’s not like Atlanta is throwing all kinds of money Sale’s way.

 

Oh they got a great deal on a rejuvenated pitcher. No one is questioning that.

 

Breslow probably could have made them pay more money, but at least tried to get back actual baseball talent as opposed to a straight salary dump. Right now, that’s the only consolation Sox fans have with this deal..

[Old Red]

There is a long history of these immediate extensions becoming contingenies for players approving trades. It’s ignorant to simply says it’s incorrect when it’s a very distinct and likely possibility…

 

You can call it ignorant all you want, but until you have something concrete, which you don’t saying no report means nothing, or very distinct, and likely a possibility gives you another N. I guess it’s up to you to find something to prove you might have guessed correct. A long history of players approving a trade for extra incentive, and money I’m thinking had Nothing to do with Sale, and Atlanta.

[Old Red]

Oh they got a great deal on a rejuvenated pitcher. No one is questioning that.

 

Breslow probably could have made them pay more money, but at least tried to get back actual baseball talent as opposed to a straight salary dump. Right now, that’s the only consolation Sox fans have with this deal..

Right now? The jury is still out on that baseball talent.

[notin]

Right now? The jury is still out on that baseball talent.

 

Fine, but still better than taking back a 32yo minor league backup catcher and saving (most of?) the $17mill that Henry likely wouldn’t re-invest anyway…

[dgalehouse]

Right now, the trade looks very lopsided in favor of Atlanta. That really cannot be disputed. It would help if Grissom could get off the road to Jabroniville and become a good MLB ballplayer. We will just have to wait and see what happens.

[Duran Is The Man]

Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition, either.

 

Sale had a 2.1 fWAR last year in 102 innings. You knew that, right?

 

If the Red Sox didn't think there was any chance of him coming back like this, they're idiots.

 

 

they are.

[notin]

Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition, either.

 

Sale had a 2.1 fWAR last year in 102 innings. You knew that, right?

 

If the Red Sox didn't think there was any chance of him coming back like this, they're idiots.

 

So did Steve Matz. Should the Sox have gotten excited their ace was pitching like the guy at the back end of the last place Cardinals’ rotation?

 

And the Sox gambled on Sale four times and lost each time. Why is it so difficult to understand they weren’t so willing to gamble a fifth time?

[moonslav59]

So did Steve Matz. Should the Sox have gotten excited their ace was pitching like the guy at the back end of the last place Cardinals’ rotation?

 

And the Sox gambled on Sale four times and lost each time. Why is it so difficult to understand they weren’t so willing to gamble a fifth time?

 

Many disliked the deal, at the time, so hindsight is not really a factor for some.

 

However, I don't recall a single poster expressing glee at the fact that Sale ended the 2023 season and pitching okay to decently. Nobody was talking about extending him or even taking the $20M 2025 option.

 

Now that he's doing very well, and Grissom is sucking, it sure makes the deal look worse, if not outright bad.

 

I do think poster like Bell and others realize why we made the trade, and hoping against hope for Sale to return was wearing thin on Sox brass and many fans. He was no sure bet for 2024, and it didn't look like 2024 was the main focus, this winter, anyway. The addition of Grissom was about 5 years, not just 2024. The signing of Gio, at that money, does counter that idea, but I don't think a single baseball fan in America would have bet on Sale starting more games in 2024 or "24+'25 than Gio. IMO, that was the reason for signing Gio.

 

The Sale trade was not the only one about money: so was the Dugo and Urias trades. The O'Neill trade added salary, but with so few FAs signed, he was hardly a dent in a budget that was actually cut from 2023. It's hard to justify the money aspect of the Sale trade, when we signed Gio, only to watch him miss the season, but if Gio was just 5-4 with a 4.00 ERA, and Grissom was hitting .690, this discussion would not be so heated. I don't think the fact that Gio and Grissom have given us less than nothing, while Sale has pitched like vintage Sale for 1/3 a season is enough to give the trade a final grade, there is certainly enough to go on to speak out against it.

 

I may be in a minority, but I think Grissom will end up being a plus for us. He should be plus on O and near average on D, hopefully sooner rather than later. (BTW, just average or slightly below average on D is better than we've seen in years, at 2B.)

 

I wish the best for Sale. I loved seeing him in a Sox uni. I loved the tarde for him, since day one. I was shocked we got him and pronounced, "We got freakin' Sale1" It's sad it ended like this, for us. It would have been nice to see him quiet some critics and bring us some wins, even if this is to be a "lost season." He is a true professional. We sure could have used him, this year. All this being said, I still think the trade made sense. It saved JH the money he wanted- like it or not. It gave us a very good chance at solving the 2B issue this team has had for 3-4 years, and it took away the uncertainty of another pitcher known for being close friends with the IL, something this team has been all about since 2018.

 

The trade has blown up, so far, but there is a long way to go.

[Old Red]

Many disliked the deal, at the time, so hindsight is not really a factor for some.

 

However, I don't recall a single poster expressing glee at the fact that Sale ended the 2023 season and pitching okay to decently. Nobody was talking about extending him or even taking the $20M 2025 option.

 

Now that he's doing very well, and Grissom is sucking, it sure makes the deal look worse, if not outright bad.

 

I do think poster like Bell and others realize why we made the trade, and hoping against hope for Sale to return was wearing thin on Sox brass and many fans. He was no sure bet for 2024, and it didn't look like 2024 was the main focus, this winter, anyway. The addition of Grissom was about 5 years, not just 2024. The signing of Gio, at that money, does counter that idea, but I don't think a single baseball fan in America would have bet on Sale starting more games in 2024 or "24+'25 than Gio. IMO, that was the reason for signing Gio.

 

The Sale trade was not the only one about money: so was the Dugo and Urias trades. The O'Neill trade added salary, but with so few FAs signed, he was hardly a dent in a budget that was actually cut from 2023. It's hard to justify the money aspect of the Sale trade, when we signed Gio, only to watch him miss the season, but if Gio was just 5-4 with a 4.00 ERA, and Grissom was hitting .690, this discussion would not be so heated. I don't think the fact that Gio and Grissom have given us less than nothing, while Sale has pitched like vintage Sale for 1/3 a season is enough to give the trade a final grade, there is certainly enough to go on to speak out against it.

 

I may be in a minority, but I think Grissom will end up being a plus for us. He should be plus on O and near average on D, hopefully sooner rather than later. (BTW, just average or slightly below average on D is better than we've seen in years, at 2B.)

 

I wish the best for Sale. I loved seeing him in a Sox uni. I loved the tarde for him, since day one. I was shocked we got him and pronounced, "We got freakin' Sale1" It's sad it ended like this, for us. It would have been nice to see him quiet some critics and bring us some wins, even if this is to be a "lost season." He is a true professional. We sure could have used him, this year. All this being said, I still think the trade made sense. It saved JH the money he wanted- like it or not. It gave us a very good chance at solving the 2B issue this team has had for 3-4 years, and it took away the uncertainty of another pitcher known for being close friends with the IL, something this team has been all about since 2018.

 

The trade has blown up, so far, but there is a long way to go.

 

There was NO need to discuss extending him, or picking up his option prior to him being traded this past offseason just like their was no need to extend Sale prior to 2019, which turned out worse than I even thought when I said it was a bad move the second I heard about it. More likely than not if he had stayed in Boston this year, and had pitched like he has with Atlanta there would be some talk about picking up his 2025 option.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I liked the Sale-Grissom trade because Breslow was making a statement, moving on immediately from what is still probably the worst contract extension pre-empting a free agent signing in club history. Let's not pretend waiting on Sale and counting on Sale to front the rotation was anything but agony for half a freaking decade.

 

If Sale pitches an entire year injury-free at his age, it's not quite a miracle -- because who wouldn't want to play in Georgia weather compared to Mass... ah choo- etts.

 

But also getting a prospect the Braves people raved about was an added bonus. Grissom was that unopened wax pack for months of promise -- though with the wrapper finally torn off, hasn't revealed any star cards... just commons.

[jad]

Yeah well if Sale were on the mound, he wouldn't have been happy about those last two plays by his replacement.

[Bellhorn04]

Many disliked the deal, at the time, so hindsight is not really a factor for some.

 

However, I don't recall a single poster expressing glee at the fact that Sale ended the 2023 season and pitching okay to decently. Nobody was talking about extending him or even taking the $20M 2025 option.

 

No idea why you keep saying this. It obviously made no sense to pick up the team option early. It's a strawman argument.

[Old Red]

No idea why you keep saying this. It obviously made no sense to pick up the team option early. It's a strawman argument.

 

Exactly. It’s just wash, rinse, and repeat with him. I’ll repeat again that if Sale would have stayed in Boston, and was still pitching like he is now there would be all kinds of picking up his option talk, but certainly no need to do it before like moon keeps spouting off on.

[mvp 78]

No idea why you keep saying this. It obviously made no sense to pick up the team option early. It's a strawman argument.

 

I don't remember anyone suggesting trading him to an NL East team, eating most of his salary and getting back a highly rated prospect that falls on his fast after losing 15 pounds and missing all of Spring Training.

[Bellhorn04]

At the very least they missed an opportunity for a great PR promo: The Return of Sale Day!

[mvp 78]

At the very least they missed an opportunity for a great PR promo: The Return of Sale Day!

 

Previously Sold Day.

[Bellhorn04]

Grissom's last 215 MLB PA's:

 

HR 0

3B 1

2B 5

[Old Red]

Grissom's last 215 MLB PA's:

 

HR 0

3B 1

2B 5

 

Yea, but according to Notin he’s just been unlucky.🤭🙈🤮

[Bellhorn04]

Yea, but according to Notin he’s just been unlucky.

 

And the Braves said he's gonna be a star!

[notin]

Yea, but according to Notin he’s just been unlucky.🤭🙈🤮

 

He’s absolutely dealt with this year. The only ones who doubt that are the ones who don’t understand.

 

Will you continue misquoting and failing to understand like you did with that whole “Notin said guarding the lines is the shift” thing?

 

It gets really sad when I use your trash talk as actual trash talk against you…

Edited May 30, 2024 by notin

[notin]

And the Braves said he's gonna be a star!

 

Those same Braves who you credit for seeing something in Sale?

[Bellhorn04]

His fWAR of -0.8 in 20 games extrapolates to -6.4 for 160 games. Pretty sure that would be a record.

[Bellhorn04]

Those same Braves who you credit for seeing something in Sale?

 

They had motivation to lie in one case. Can you guess which one?