4/16 Cleveland at Boston

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

With the SOX BP, the opposition really doesn't need to start the extra inning with a guy on 2nd.

 

I should have posted 'with the SOX overworked BP.'

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Having Whitlock departing early with his expected injury didn't effect the SOX starters' ERA too much.

[vegasbob]

Know what does make games last longer? Kenley Jansen.

 

Cue those who remind us he’s a Hall of Fame closer and was really good in 2014…

 

Holy Cow, Phil.. You have come around to the dark side.

[vegasbob]

Late Tuesday or early Wednesday in EDT: Devers says his left knee hurts, never experienced this before. Whitlock says his oblique hurts , no idea if it's significant. This is without a doubt the most damned team since Lucifer took on Michael for a chance to be the security guard in heaven.

 

Breslow silent as he checks his contract . Maybe he now needs to actually perform by finding bodies who can play baseball. Sox can salvage the series tie by winning the next two.. Laughing all the way to the ticket office.

[jad]

I believe Cora keeping Bobby D on the 26 is his way of giving the finger to the FO and JH.

 

Don't you think the RS showing up with ANYONE in their system on the 26 is giving the finger to the FO and JH?

[Old Red]

I didn’t watch the game last night, because Moonshiners was more appealing. Looking at the box score was bad enough. Back home in last place, and 2-6 on the current home stand.

[moonslav59]

The footwork and throw by Rafaela allowed the big ru to score.

 

Abreu's earlier error hurt, badly.

 

It was nice to see us fight back to take the lead, but this D keeps killing us.

 

It also looks like Wink has come down off his high from last year. We've credited Brez & Bailey for turning around our starters, so do we blame them for Wink? (Just asking- not telling.)

[jung]

Know what does make games last longer? Kenley Jansen.

 

Cue those who remind us he’s a Hall of Fame closer and was really good in 2014…

 

The Sox recent pitching acquisitions tells you that the pitching which has been more reliable than either the hitting or GOD HELP UP the fielding won't hold up.

- Janson, not on the back nine....but at the 19th hole

- Giolito, how many innings on that arm? That was more of a gamble than an effort to actually shore up the pitching staff.

 

Bello is our #1 but he is not an Ace as yet and he may never be an Ace.

Pavetta is on the shelf with elbow strain

 

The rest of them are a collection of guys that were destined to the pen. While Whit and Houck have performed admirably within the context of contemporary starting pitching the rest of the staff has not been able to accommodate the added workload even when a starter takes it into the 6th inning. 18 games in and some of them are already taxed by the workload.

 

So with a pitching staff that is already showing signs of sinking into the sunset after a near heroic effort (SAVE JANSON), inconsistent hitting and Keystone Kops fielding when do we think this team might beat a decent to good ML club? Could it be today? Maybe. They haven't done it so far.

[Hugh2]

A better bullpen would have equated this game to a nice comeback victory (minus the injuries) wait, the potential of injury to Whitlock/Devers just sucks. Regardless I think Joely is wasted space on this roser, him along with Dalbec. I think Winc would be better with more depth in the pen and not being needed to go multiple innings evertime out.

[notin]

A better bullpen would have equated this game to a nice comeback victory (minus the injuries) wait, the potential of injury to Whitlock/Devers just sucks. Regardless I think Joely is wasted space on this roser, him along with Dalbec. I think Winc would be better with more depth in the pen and not being needed to go multiple innings evertime out.

 

 

Even with 30% of the roster injured, they should DFA Dalbec.

 

I never hope a player gets injured, but why is it players like Dalbec never do?

[moonslav59]

The Sox recent pitching acquisitions tells you that the pitching which has been more reliable than either the hitting or GOD HELP UP the fielding won't hold up.

- Janson, not on the back nine....but at the 19th hole

- Giolito, how many innings on that arm? That was more of a gamble than an effort to actually shore up the pitching staff.

 

Bello is our #1 but he is not an Ace as yet and he may never be an Ace.

Pavetta is on the shelf with elbow strain

 

The rest of them are a collection of guys that were destined to the pen. While Whit and Houck have performed admirably within the context of contemporary starting pitching the rest of the staff has not been able to accommodate the added workload even when a starter takes it into the 6th inning. 18 games in and some of them are already taxed by the workload.

 

So with a pitching staff that is already showing signs of sinking into the sunset after a near heroic effort (SAVE JANSON), inconsistent hitting and Keystone Kops fielding when do we think this team might beat a decent to good ML club? Could it be today? Maybe. They haven't done it so far.

 

Well said.

 

I will add this, as an indicator of where the league is, right now, and how our SP'ers are actually not taxing our pen more than the average:

 

IP/GS league avg is 5.2 (not 5 and 2/3, but 5 and 1/5.)

 

5.9 Houck

5.5 Pivetta (injured)

5.3 Crawford

 

5.2 Bello

5.2 Whitlock (left early in his last start)

 

4.0 Criswell (filling in for Pivetta)

 

Team: 5.2

 

Pitches per game: (Can we see this increase, and if yes, will it translate to more IP/GS or just more batters faced in 5.2 IP?)

 

93 Houck

92 Bello

88 Crawford

83 Criswell

80 Pivetta

80 Whitlock

 

[Old Red]

Well said.

 

I will add this, as an indicator of where the league is, right now, and how our SP'ers are actually not taxing our pen more than the average:

 

IP/GS league avg is 5.2 (not 5 and 2/3, but 5 and 1/5.)

 

5.9 Houck

5.5 Pivetta (injured)

5.3 Crawford

 

5.2 Bello

5.2 Whitlock (left early in his last start)

 

4.0 Criswell (filling in for Pivetta)

 

Team: 5.2

 

Pitches per game: (Can we see this increase, and if yes, will it translate to more IP/GS or just more batters faced in 5.2 IP?)

 

93 Houck

92 Bello

88 Crawford

83 Criswell

80 Pivetta

80 Whitlock

 

Who gives a Rat’s Ass if the BP isn’t getting taxed more than league average??? The fact is they are getting taxed.🙈🤭🤮

[jung]

The footwork and throw by Rafaela allowed the big ru to score.

 

Abreu's earlier error hurt, badly.

 

It was nice to see us fight back to take the lead, but this D keeps killing us.

 

It also looks like Wink has come down off his high from last year. We've credited Brez & Bailey for turning around our starters, so do we blame them for Wink? (Just asking- not telling.)

 

We are going to be driven to drink not just by the errors that are scored as errors but those that are not, like throwing to the wrong base and DP's not made. This is a thoughtless team of athletic specimens that simply are incapable of using their noddles, that is with the exception of middle infield where I don't know what those guys are, missing links maybe.

 

Even Rafi can make very athletic plays at 3rd that can be defined by a quick step left or right and a stab with his glove. When he is confronted with a ball hit right at him or when he has to quickly calculate moving up or back or staying put to make a play he really has trouble. IMO, Xander was his day in day out fielding guide.

[notin]

Holy Cow, Phil.. You have come around to the dark side.

 

My support for Kenley Jansen has always been tepid at best. And the defense that’s he’s had a good career was always pointless. I mean, Rick Burleson had a good career, too. Should we bring him in to play SS?

[notin]

I believe Cora keeping Bobby D on the 26 is his way of giving the finger to the FO and JH.

 

Has the same effect on the fans…

[moonslav59]

my support for kenley jansen has always been tepid at best. And the defense that’s he’s had a good career was always pointless. I mean, rick burleson had a good career, too. Should we bring him in to play ss?

 

yes!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I mean, Rick Burleson had a good career, too. Should we bring him in to play SS?

 

Reliable glove, cannon arm, respectable bat (8% K-rate), four times receiving MVP votes, four-time All-Star, known as "Burly" on my vintage 70s Sox painter cap, admitted Yankee hater...

 

... the answer is: yes.

[vegasbob]

Even with 30% of the roster injured, they should DFA Dalbec.

 

I never hope a player gets injured, but why is it players like Dalbec never do?

 

Nobody ever got a hammie or bad knee strolling from the dugout to the plate and back again.

[moonslav59]

Nobody ever got a hammie or bad knee strolling from the dugout to the plate and back again.

 

Some have rolling out of bed or sneezing, though. Not Bobby Dee!

[notin]

Nobody ever got a hammie or bad knee strolling from the dugout to the plate and back again.

 

Sammy Sosa injured himself sneezing. Anyone know if Dalbec has hay fever?

[dgalehouse]

My support for Kenley Jansen has always been tepid at best. And the defense that’s he’s had a good career was always pointless. I mean, Rick Burleson had a good career, too. Should we bring him in to play SS?

 

Ridiculous comparison. But S.O.P. for you. Jansen may or may not be washed up , but he was an All Star last season . Led the N.L. in saves in '22. Closing ain't easy. Blown saves happen, even to the best. Josh Hader has been getting roughed up plenty this season. On the other hand, even in his 70's, Burleson might be an improvement over the jabronis they have been running out there at short since Bogaerts left.

[Bellhorn04]

Ridiculous comparison. But S.O.P. for you. Jansen may or may not be washed up , but he was an All Star last season . Led the N.L. in saves in '22. Closing ain't easy. Blown saves happen, even to the best. Josh Hader has been getting roughed up plenty this season. On the other hand, even in his 70's, Burleson might be an improvement over the jabronis they have been running out there at short since Bogaerts left.

 

And we do have a lot of jabronis playing in Red Sox uniforms this year, Den.

[dgalehouse]

And we do have a lot of jabronis playing in Red Sox uniforms this year, Den.

 

Looks that way. Hopefully, they show some improvement.

[notin]

Ridiculous comparison. But S.O.P. for you. Jansen may or may not be washed up , but he was an All Star last season . Led the N.L. in saves in '22. Closing ain't easy. Blown saves happen, even to the best. Josh Hader has been getting roughed up plenty this season. On the other hand, even in his 70's, Burleson might be an improvement over the jabronis they have been running out there at short since Bogaerts left.

 

He was. But he was the league-required sole team rep. Really all that means is no one on that team was deemed worthy than he was at their respective positions.

 

And he was only worth 1.1 fWAR, seventh on the Sox pitching staff and second among RP. The 1.1 fWAR is also the lowest total of his career nd a far cry from the 3 fWAR seasons he was worth 6-7 years ago.

 

But more important, that was last year. This year, he is most definitely not on pace to be another All Star, with an 9:8 K:BB ratio and one 1-2-3 inning under his belt.

 

Jansen may one day get in the Hall of Fame, but it will not be for what he has done in Boston. Just like how Dwight Evans belongs in the Hall of Fame, but not for what he did in Baltimore...

[Maxbialystock]

Ridiculous comparison. But S.O.P. for you. Jansen may or may not be washed up , but he was an All Star last season . Led the N.L. in saves in '22. Closing ain't easy. Blown saves happen, even to the best. Josh Hader has been getting roughed up plenty this season. On the other hand, even in his 70's, Burleson might be an improvement over the jabronis they have been running out there at short since Bogaerts left.

 

Everything you say in defense of Jansen is true. He has been unbelievably successful--and was as recently as last season.

 

However, last night he threw cutters--same speed, same amount of break, but different locations in and out of the strike zone--on almost every pitch. I saw exactly one slider. As a result, the Guardians hit him hard, but fortunately two line drives were catchable, as was the final out grounder to 2b. Right now his WHIP is 1.80, which ain't so hot, and it's because in 6.2 innings he has given up 4 hits and 8 walks.

 

So, good for you that you believe he's still great, still wonderful, but he scares the daylights out of me. Last night Cleveland absolutely pounded him because he was throwing very hittable stuff.

[dgalehouse]

Everything you say in defense of Jansen is true. He has been unbelievably successful--and was as recently as last season.

 

However, last night he threw cutters--same speed, same amount of break, but different locations in and out of the strike zone--on almost every pitch. I saw exactly one slider. As a result, the Guardians hit him hard, but fortunately two line drives were catchable, as was the final out grounder to 2b. Right now his WHIP is 1.80, which ain't so hot, and it's because in 6.2 innings he has given up 4 hits and 8 walks.

 

So, good for you that you believe he's still great, still wonderful, but he scares the daylights out of me. Last night Cleveland absolutely pounded him because he was throwing very hittable stuff.

 

Everybody has their bad days. And I don't think he is still great. Like the proverbial old, gray mare, he ain't what he used to be. But he still has a pretty good percentage of success. Hang in there , Max.

[moonslav59]

Everything you say in defense of Jansen is true. He has been unbelievably successful--and was as recently as last season.

 

However, last night he threw cutters--same speed, same amount of break, but different locations in and out of the strike zone--on almost every pitch. I saw exactly one slider. As a result, the Guardians hit him hard, but fortunately two line drives were catchable, as was the final out grounder to 2b. Right now his WHIP is 1.80, which ain't so hot, and it's because in 6.2 innings he has given up 4 hits and 8 walks.

 

So, good for you that you believe he's still great, still wonderful, but he scares the daylights out of me. Last night Cleveland absolutely pounded him because he was throwing very hittable stuff.

 

It was bound to happen. He last longer than most. He had a very long run at greatness or near greatness.

 

Who knows, maybe he can regain some magic before retiring. He did miss some ST'ing, so maybe he is still trying to find the "lost groove." Maybe it can never be brought back.

 

A subjective breakdown of his years:

 

First 284 games (6 seasons)

2.25 ERA/ 2.00 FIP (0.966 WHIP) 4.5 K/BB

 

Middle 324 games (5 seasons)

2.44 ERA/2.50 FIP (0.852 WHIP) 7.7 K/BB

 

Last 219 games (4+ seasons)

3.02 ERA/3.29 FIP (1.131 WHIP) 2.9 K/BB

 

That last era was a step down from the previous ones, but it is still damn good. It is also heavily weighed down by his numbers with the Sox:

3.51 ERA/3.78 FIP (1.344 WHIP) 2.4 K/BB

 

Those numbers with BOS were greatly weighed down from the end of July to now.

 

July 29 to end of 2023 (14 games):

6.10 ERA/6.06 FIP

 

2024 (7 games:)

2.70 ERA/4.60 FIP (9Ks, 8 BB, 1 HBP) Only 4 hits

 

July 29 to now (17 IP):

4.76 ERA

5.76 FIP

-0.2 fWAR

(Only jacques has worse numbers than this, since last July)

 

Note: 17 IP is a small sample size, so we cannot know for sure, that this is the new Jansen.