Craig Breslow hired as Head Of Baseball Operations

[Bellhorn04]

Is there an exchange rate issue where you don't think 10M is a lot of $$$? I don't get it.

 

It's a lot of money in the real world. For an MLB starting pitcher, it doesn't get you much.

[Bellhorn04]

Are we really trying to make Garrett Richards out to be a big signing?

[notin]

It's a lot of money in the real world. For an MLB starting pitcher, it doesn't get you much.

 

Reynaldo Lopez, Erik Fedde, Mike Lorenzen…

[Bellhorn04]

Reynaldo Lopez, Erik Fedde, Mike Lorenzen…

 

Yes, you get lucky with some of them. With some you get Klubered.

[notin]

Yes, you get lucky with some of them. With some you get Klubered.

 

So sometimes it does get you much. And when it doesn’t, hopefully it’s over in a year..

[mvp 78]

It's a lot of money in the real world. For an MLB starting pitcher, it doesn't get you much.

 

It's quite the expanded definition of dumpster diving if you are including those guys though. Was Wacha a dumpster dive that year at 6.5 AAV? Lorenzen at 8.5? Rich Hill at 8? Clevinger at 1/12?

[mvp 78]

Are we really trying to make Garrett Richards out to be a big signing?

 

7th highest AAV given to a starting pitcher that offseason.

[Dipre]

It was pretty obvious that Breslow was looking for pitching in the draft. And it kind of silenced the chorus chanting " Best player available. You can always trade them for pitching." They scoffed at those who wanted to draft more pitching. Now, the tune has changed.

 

This was the worst position player crop in maybe the last decade. And they only signed two more pitchers than last draft. Like, if you don't really understand how something works, why spew this BS?

[dgalehouse]

Dipre, I fully understand how it works. I have been following baseball for a long time. Not "spewing " anything. Just stating my opinion. I am very confident in my opinions. Your overbearing , juvenile retorts do not bother me one iota. Have a nice day.

[Dipre]

Yeah not the point. You come up here with this "gotcha" crap, as clearly stated by your post, and it's clearly not true, and that's evident to anyone following the draft. They weren't clearly "hunting for pitching". They drafted big-bodied, projectable pitchers in a draft that was weak in position players, and even then, their first pick was an OF who was the best athlete available, and their most exciting pick a two-way player who was clearly the best athlete available at the time.

 

You wanna know what trading for need instead of best player/athlete available look like?https://www.mlb.com/news/angels-pick-only-pitchers-in-2021-mlb-draft

 

How¿d that work out?

[Dipre]

*Meant drafting for need, and won't let me edit.

[moonslav59]

I do think there was a conscious effort to draft more pitchers in the later rounds (5-20th rounds,) but to me, after the 4th round, so many players are valued very closely, so it's hard to tell if they actually drafted more pitchers, on purpose, of it they truly had them as "the best player" in those slots.

 

The fact is, we drafted 2 position players in the top 4 rounds. Is that much different than this?

 

3 of 4 in '23, '22, '21, '18

2 of 4 in '20, '19, '17, '16 (Groome 1st rd), '14

 

Yes, different from...

1 of 4 in 2013 (TBall in 1st and Stanky in 2nd)

 

[Old Red]

Dipre, I fully understand how it works. I have been following baseball for a long time. Not "spewing " anything. Just stating my opinion. I am very confident in my opinions. Your overbearing , juvenile retorts do not bother me one iota. Have a nice day.

 

👍👍👍

[Bellhorn04]

It's quite the expanded definition of dumpster diving if you are including those guys though. Was Wacha a dumpster dive that year at 6.5 AAV? Lorenzen at 8.5? Rich Hill at 8? Clevinger at 1/12?

 

OK, so there's a fun little spectrum of options for bargain hunters, from the thrift store to the dumpster behind the thrift store.

 

The highest contract ever given to a starter is $325 million.

 

$6.5 million is exactly 2% of that.

[notin]

OK, so there's a fun little spectrum of options for bargain hunters, from the thrift store to the dumpster behind the thrift store.

 

The highest contract ever given to a starter is $325 million.

 

$6.5 million is exactly 2% of that.

 

 

But it’s not like those salaries are in a Gaussian distribution. $325mill is a bit isolated…

[moonslav59]

Yeah not the point. You come up here with this "gotcha" crap, as clearly stated by your post, and it's clearly not true, and that's evident to anyone following the draft. They weren't clearly "hunting for pitching". They drafted big-bodied, projectable pitchers in a draft that was weak in position players, and even then, their first pick was an OF who was the best athlete available, and their most exciting pick a two-way player who was clearly the best athlete available at the time.

 

You wanna know what trading for need instead of best player/athlete available look like?https://www.mlb.com/news/angels-pick-only-pitchers-in-2021-mlb-draft

 

How¿d that work out?

 

How did drafting Groome and TBall in the first round work out?

 

I'm not saying those two failures should mean we never draft a pitcher, highly again, but taking the best player available is what most GMs do, and for good reason.

 

The idea of trading everyday prospects for pitching is a good strategy, and there is plenty of evidence it works. The problem is, we haven't done it in a long while.

 

The Pedro trade involved trading two top pitching prospects (Nate for Beeks, too), but these relied on or mostly on everyday prospects:

 

Schilling

Beckett

Sale

 

Lesser pitchers:

Peavy for Iggy

 

This winter, we should do it again.

[notin]

Dipre, I fully understand how it works. I have been following baseball for a long time. Not "spewing " anything. Just stating my opinion. I am very confident in my opinions. Your overbearing , juvenile retorts do not bother me one iota. Have a nice day.

 

Breslow did take the best player available. In fact, numerous pundits called their pick the steal of the first round…

[moonslav59]

OK, so there's a fun little spectrum of options for bargain hunters, from the thrift store to the dumpster behind the thrift store.

 

The highest contract ever given to a starter is $325 million.

 

$6.5 million is exactly 2% of that.

 

Bell, there should be at least one category between big bucks contracts and dumpster dives.

 

Id' say about $20M AAV for 3+ years is one.

 

$10-20M for $3+ years is another.

 

$10-20M/1 or $5-10M for 3+ years is another

 

$4 or 5-9M/1 is close to dumpster, but I would not use the term there.

 

$700K-3-4M sounds about right, to me.

[Bellhorn04]

But it’s not like those salaries are in a Gaussian distribution. $325mill is a bit isolated…

 

OK, let's make it $175-200 million as top level.

 

That still leaves $10 million as low level.

 

The Red Sox guaranteed $38 million to a guy who got lit up like a Christmas tree for the last 2 months of 2023.

 

They even threw in an opt-out.

[Bellhorn04]

OK, "dumpster dive" is a mild exaggeration for $10 million. It's a touch hyperbolic. You got me.

[Bellhorn04]

Now somebody go pore through Garrett Richards's numbers for the 5 years before Bloom signed him and see what looks good.

[Bellhorn04]

According to FanGraphs, 1 WAR costs you about $8 million on the free agent market. So for $10 million, you should expect to get about 1.25 WAR. That is way below the average WAR of 2.0. For starting pitchers, that's a #4, tops. For one season.

[Hugh2]

Wait, I just realized. Most people don’t know that BPA is almost always mostly about your first round pick.

 

You always want to nail that pick. You don’t think teams are filling organizational needs afterwards? There’s the same amount of pitchers and hitters on every team; top to bottom up the system.

 

You nail your first pick, then after that you’re may be going BPA according to more of needs at some point….you just have too, you can’t carry 25 pitchers in Salem, or 25 “Short stops” in Greenville.

 

Teams have a very clear ideal who they think is the best player available at #8 or #12 in a draft.

 

Do people actually think by the time they get down to #250 that they have a clear cut BPA? Rather than tranche of players they all put in the same tier? It’s like rankings. Most people clearly can say Marcelo Mayer and Roman Anthony are our two top prospects. Do people actually think people definitively can say Jojo ingressia is better than Noah Dean?

 

Sox did just that, and just what I predicted. They went position player in the first round then focused on position. And guess what? So did most teams. This draft set a record for pitchers being drafted and also the least amount of high school players were taken in the top 10 rounds ever. Ever.

 

In the end, the Sox took 14 pitchers, only TWO more than last year.

 

The biggest difference is Cason and Tolle will probably get bigger bonuses than the Sox have paid out since Tanner Houck.

[Hugh2]

Or at least that’s what I always thought we meant by BPA. Maybe I’ve had it wrong all these years

[Hugh2]

Add:

 

Brady Tygart may also eclipse any bonus given to a pitcher since 2017. But Tolle and Cason will certainly eclipse any number given since Tanner.

[Duran Is The Man]

Breslow did take the best player available. In fact, numerous pundits called their pick the steal of the first round…

 

i'm a little confused with everyone saying the Sox are taking the BPA. with the 50th pick, they took the 87th best player. with the 86th pick of the draft, they took the 193rd best player. and so on. so....clearly they aren't taking "the best player available" or the BPA is like everything else: just someone's opinion. or i'm confused. wouldn't be the first time.

[Hugh2]

i'm a little confused with everyone saying the Sox are taking the BPA. with the 50th pick, they took the 87th best player. with the 86th pick of the draft, they took the 193rd best player. and so on. so....clearly they aren't taking "the best player available" or the BPA is like everything else: just someone's opinion. or i'm confused. wouldn't be the first time.

 

Sox took Zach Ehrhard at 115. MLB ranked him 221, Baseball America ranked him 399, perfect game ranked him 133.

 

That’s 3 boards and every team has their own board.

 

Thats why I say when fans say “they should have taken this guy over that guy” I say they don’t know what they’re talking about. They’re going off of one board, and it’s not even the best board…just a public one.

 

They don’t know….and neither do I.

[notin]

i'm a little confused with everyone saying the Sox are taking the BPA. with the 50th pick, they took the 87th best player. with the 86th pick of the draft, they took the 193rd best player. and so on. so....clearly they aren't taking "the best player available" or the BPA is like everything else: just someone's opinion. or i'm confused. wouldn't be the first time.

 

At the front end, it was obvious that was what they did. But as you go further down the rankings, I’m not so sure how much separates two players ranked widely apart. Or how the Sox ranked them…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'd say $7-14M is midlevel. ($10M Richards, Kluber and $7M for Wacha.)

Paxton ($10M/2,) Perez and Hill were upper level dumpster dives who did okay. Wink worked okay, too.

Cheapies: Weber, Mazza, Brewer, Godly, Hart, Kickham, Triggs, Peacock, Seabold did not work out well.

 

The list of Cheapies were definitely scrap-heap flea-market pick-ups -- and they don't have to equate to full-fledged members of any starting rotation to come from dumpsters.

 

Sure, GMs sign castoffs from waiver wires all the time -- especially relievers -- and sometimes find a pearl -- or a Luis Tiant -- but longtime Red Sox fans have to admit the past half decade has looked more like a Barrel Full of Monkeys than Connect Four (or five or six for modern rotations).

[Duran Is The Man]

Sox took Zach Ehrhard at 115. MLB ranked him 221, Baseball America ranked him 399, perfect game ranked him 133.

 

That’s 3 boards and every team has their own board.

 

Thats why I say when fans say “they should have taken this guy over that guy” I say they don’t know what they’re talking about. They’re going off of one board, and it’s not even the best board…just a public one.

 

They don’t know….and neither do I.

 

i damn sure don't. i don't know if they drafted well or not but i am glad they only drafted a couple of HS kids. IDGAF what any board or expert says, i just think -with a few very obvious exceptions- that it is insane to pick HS kids over college kids, unless its the later rounds of the draft where, like notin mentioned, there probably isn't that much separation. high school kids have only proved that they are good against other high school players.