Craig Breslow hired as Head Of Baseball Operations

[notin]

Why did the Black Sox take so much heat for throwing the World Series, BTW?

 

All they had to do was explain that it was a "subset of losing"...

 

Not sure where this is going. Nowhere did anyone say “all losing is acceptable and legal and within the rules.” I mean, the Astros themselves cheated to win in 2017, does it out does it not count? A full separate question is “should it?”

 

But bear in mind, you are the one equating legally assembling a cheaper and less effective team with intentionally cheating for financial purposes. And nobody knows why. Especially since you agreed to the exact same point when Dipre said it…

[moonslav59]

I’m not a huge boxing fan, but I am aware that the professional boxing world is rife with fighters whose sole job is to lose fights to bolster the records of their opponents. This is perfectly legal in that world. And the wins and losses count.

 

The Astros admitting they ranked is legal, too. But no one has been saying they didn’t tank. My only point was they showed that it’s not always effective because of the complete crapshoot of getting even the overall number one pick. That they succeeded in other ways doesn’t change that fact…

 

They were actually sued for tanking. (I think the cable company sued them.)

 

Do you think most team would be happy to get Correa and 2 busts in a 3 year stretch of first rounders?

 

How about Correa and Bregman?

 

Okay, it may not alays be effective, but with the Astors, it was.

[dgalehouse]

Which is worse ? Cheating to win ? Or deliberately trying to lose ?

[moonslav59]

Which is worse ? Cheating to win ? Or deliberately trying to lose ?

 

I'm fine with deliberately losing with future winning as the goal.

 

I'm never fine with cheating to win.

[notin]

Which is worse ? Cheating to win ? Or deliberately trying to lose ?

 

Cheating to win. Always.

 

 

But a valid and thought-provoking ethical question. Kudos…

[notin]

I'm fine with deliberately losing with future winning as the goal.

 

I'm never fine with cheating to win.

 

In thought about it after I responded, and interpreted it the same way. But that wasn’t the question.

 

Not all trying to lose is merely fielding a cheaper and less effective team for the purpose of garnering a better draft position. The 1919 White Sox, mentioned earlier, provide a new wrinkle.

 

By then same token, not all cheating to win can fall into the same category as the 2017 Astros. Gaylord Perry, for example, cheated his way to 300 wins.

 

As I said, it’s a thought-provoking question…

[dgalehouse]

Is " tanking " defined as not necessarily trying to lose a game, but rather putting an inferior team on the field in hopes of losing?

[cp176]

Is " tanking " defined as not necessarily trying to lose a game, but rather putting an inferior team on the field in hopes of losing?

 

Losing intentionally goes against every way that I have approached athletics since I was a kid. You'll always have people who find new and unique ways to cheat, but losing intentionally is cheating deluxe in my opinion. It makes no difference what you think you have a chance to gain from it.

[notin]

Is " tanking " defined as not necessarily trying to lose a game, but rather putting an inferior team on the field in hopes of losing?

 

Throwing games (re: intentionally losing) is a subset of tanking…

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by notin

[moonslav59]

Is " tanking " defined as not necessarily trying to lose a game, but rather putting an inferior team on the field in hopes of losing?

 

I think the teams that put known inferior teams on the field, hope they surprise and win. It helps for more fan attendance and viewership on cable. (This might be an example of "punting," but punting implies the hopes that you get the ball back and may do better on your next drive. You gain field position by punting. In baseball, that may mean you are just holding off from going "all in" or seriously "more in."

 

It's the teams that put losing teams on the field and hope they lose is what I'd call "tanking." The Astros hoped they would lose enough to get a top 2-3 pick. The did everything they could to put a bad team on the field. (I doubt they ever instructed their manager or players to lose on purpose, but did as much as possible to make sure the team sucked.

[notin]

Losing intentionally goes against every way that I have approached athletics since I was a kid. You'll always have people who find new and unique ways to cheat, but losing intentionally is cheating deluxe in my opinion. It makes no difference what you think you have a chance to gain from it.

 

But there is a difference (to me) between the 1919 White Sox, who damaged the integrity of the game, and the 2012 Astros, who dialed back to regroup…

Edited October 27, 2023 by notin

[moonslav59]

But there is a difference (to me) between the 1919 White Sox, who damaged the integrity of the game, and the 2012 Astros, who dialed back to regroup…

 

Night and day.

 

I also think other teams have done similar things as the Astros, but just not to that extreme and not admitting it.

 

Several teams have done a sort of cycle plan, where they go lean for a few years as they rebuild, then spend more for 2-3 years and repeat.

[jad]

I'm fine with deliberately losing with future winning as the goal.

 

I'm never fine with cheating to win.

 

It's entertainment, not a Victorian morality play! You watch to see great athletes compete, at least, I do. Therefore, I feel the opposite of you. I don't give a crap about 'cheating' (all those anguished cries on a playground of 10-year-olds--ITS NOT FAIR!!!). Deliberately losing goes against the entire reason I watch sports, and when athletes or teams do that, I don't watch.

[Old Red]

If You deliberately try to lose then don’t play at all. Future winning be dammed. If you try to lose you’re a loser in more ways than one. Bloom was a loser.

[Bellhorn04]

But bear in mind, you are the one equating legally assembling a cheaper and less effective team with intentionally cheating for financial purposes. And nobody knows why. Especially since you agreed to the exact same point when Dipre said it…

 

No, I didn't say that at all. Show me where I did. It's absolutely incredible how garbled you get things.

 

You really need to start reading posts more carefully. Including your own.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Bellhorn04

[Hugh2]

Is " tanking " defined as not necessarily trying to lose a game, but rather putting an inferior team on the field in hopes of losing?

 

I think this is the only way you can intentionally tank. Unless of course players are purposefully trying to strike out or give up home runs. I doubt there are any players willing to do that on purpose.

 

With fielding an inferior team, if it’s September first and you’re securely in last place, why pile up innings on arms, or play guys every day who are near a full season and can use rest?

 

I think it makes sense to play younger guys more, not to lose but to see what you have in them. If you end up winning games with those players don’t you get excited for the future? Would t you be happy about that? You’d think in an “intentional tank” you wouldn’t be happy winning games there but I doubt that.

 

Let’s say the Sox switched up months but ended with the same record, but played .600 ball in September with more of the youth playing. Does anyone really think John Henry is sitting around saying “damnit, why are these young guys who we have under team control for 6 years and could possible help win future championships playing so well!!!!!”

 

I don’t think teams intentionally tank. It just makes so very little sense for baseball

[Bellhorn04]

I think this is the only way you can intentionally tank. Unless of course players are purposefully trying to strike out or give up home runs. I doubt there are any players willing to do that on purpose.

 

With fielding an inferior team, if it’s September first and you’re securely in last place, why pile up innings on arms, or play guys every day who are near a full season and can use rest?

 

I think it makes sense to play younger guys more, not to lose but to see what you have in them. If you end up winning games with those players don’t you get excited for the future? Would t you be happy about that? You’d think in an “intentional tank” you wouldn’t be happy winning games there but I doubt that.

 

Let’s say the Sox switched up months but ended with the same record, but played .600 ball in September with more of the youth playing. Does anyone really think John Henry is sitting around saying “damnit, why are these young guys who we have under team control for 6 years and could possible help win future championships playing so well!!!!!”

 

I don’t think teams intentionally tank. It just makes so very little sense for baseball

 

There's a sort of unwritten code about all that stuff. Cora talked about it a bit in September, trying to balance doing what's best for the team with what's best for the game.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Bellhorn04

[Old Red]

I think this is the only way you can intentionally tank. Unless of course players are purposefully trying to strike out or give up home runs. I doubt there are any players willing to do that on purpose.

 

With fielding an inferior team, if it’s September first and you’re securely in last place, why pile up innings on arms, or play guys every day who are near a full season and can use rest?

 

I think it makes sense to play younger guys more, not to lose but to see what you have in them. If you end up winning games with those players don’t you get excited for the future? Would t you be happy about that? You’d think in an “intentional tank” you wouldn’t be happy winning games there but I doubt that.

 

Let’s say the Sox switched up months but ended with the same record, but played .600 ball in September with more of the youth playing. Does anyone really think John Henry is sitting around saying “damnit, why are these young guys who we have under team control for 6 years and could possible help win future championships playing so well!!!!!”

 

I don’t think teams intentionally tank. It just makes so very little sense for baseball

Why pile up innings on arms, or play guys every day who are near a full season, and could use some rest? Maybe fans who are paying big bucks, and have bought tickets to see the players play months in advance want to see them play. Also if you’re playing teams still in postseason contention you should put your best team out there.

[Bellhorn04]

Why pile up innings on arms, or play guys every day who are near a full season, and could use some rest? Maybe fans who are paying big bucks, and have bought tickets to see the players play months in advance want to see them play. Also if you’re playing teams still in postseason contention you should put your best team out there.

 

Like I say there's kind of a code about that. Everybody knows what the deal is. You have to balance looking after your own interests with respecting the other teams that are in playoff contention. Cora talked about it this year.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ok, time to go forward. Breslow wasn't hired to take this team backwards.

 

MLB.com predicted landing zones for the top 25 free agents. They have Yamamoto going to Boston.

If he does, then we'll know for sure ownership isn't just putting a new face on an old and tired fiasco.

[Bellhorn04]

Amazingly enough, Shaugnessy seems to like this move.

 

Perhaps the best news about Breslow is that Theo Epstein’s fingerprints are all over this important Red Sox hire.

 

Theo is the one who first brought Breslow to the Red Sox in 2006. Breslow pitched in 88 games at Pawtucket over two seasons and got into 13 with the Sox before Epstein let him go on waivers during spring training 2008. Breslow returned in 2012 and was part of the 2013 World Series winners.

 

While Breslow continued his 12-year big league career, Theo moved on to Chicago, enhancing his Hall of Fame résumé by winning another curse-busting World Series with the Cubs in 2016.

All the while, Theo never forgot about his fellow Yale prodigy.

 

After Breslow’s final season, a year in the minors in 2018, Epstein’s Cubs were among the many teams to pursue him for a front office position. The Cubs were having problems developing pitching. Impressed with Breslow’s brilliance, integrity, and relentlessness, Epstein identified him as a person who could fix things.

 

Breslow was living in Newton, looking for a challenge in baseball, and had spoken with then-Sox baseball boss Dave Dombrowski. It turned out that Breslow wanted too much and was perhaps too analytical for the old-school Dombrowski, who won a World Series with the Sox in ‘18 but was fired by John Henry the following year.

 

Epstein feared the Cubs were falling behind other organizations in the ever-evolving area of pitching development. Theo went after Breslow, but it was not an easy hire. Breslow had more questions for the Cubs than the Cubs had for him.

 

They turned out to be a better fit than the Red Sox. Within a year, the Cubs turned over their entire minor league pitching operation to Breslow. When Epstein left the Cubs after the 2020 season, Jed Hoyer took over and made Breslow assistant general manager.

 

Today Epstein is an MLB consultant, largely responsible for the pitch clock that rescued baseball in 2023, but he still has the ear of Red Sox CEO Sam Kennedy, who was in charge of the “robust search” for a new baseball boss.

 

Epstein and Kennedy were baseball teammates at Brookline High School and started their front office careers together in the 1990s, working for Larry Lucchino’s San Diego Padres. When Lucchino came to Boston as part of Henry’s new ownership group in 2002, he negotiated with Padres owner John Moores to bring the duo to Boston. “Free the Brookline 2″ was a jovial chant around the Sox offices when Lucchino was attempting to liberate Epstein and Kennedy from San Diego.

 

Fast-forward 21 years, and you can be darned sure Kennedy talked to Theo to get the thumbs-up on Breslow.

 

With Breslow on board, Sox fans can expect a chief baseball officer who is curious, fearless, and wildly intellectual. A World Series champion, known to be a great teammate, Breslow will have the attention of the players, unlike most analytic gurus. He also will be an intellectual match for Henry, who loves numbers, problem solving, and late-night email exchanges.

 

“He does relate well to players,” said one of Breslow’s advocates, a longtime MLB employee. “He’s a 5-10 Jewish kid who played 12 years in the big leagues because he knows how to get the best out of himself and rise to the occasion. He was a very well-liked teammate everywhere.”

 

In a perfect world, Breslow would come to Boston under a veteran baseball boss. But this is not a perfect world. Breslow will have to learn on the job and hopefully will be empowered to spend some of Henry’s money.

 

Epstein is careful not to insert himself into Sox business. His official, canned statement on Breslow: “Craig is one of the most impressive and impactful baseball people I’ve ever met. He combines a powerful intellect and deep pitching expertise with a real understanding of players and fearless approach to problem solving. With his mind, work ethic, and character, there is no limit to what he can accomplish in this game.”

 

Swell. But it’s far more than that. Epstein, who won two World Series here, then another title with the Cubs, believes that the inexperienced Breslow is the solution for all that plagues the Red Sox in 2023.

 

It’s not going to be easy, and it could blow up if ownership’s post-2018 model of making money while driving down payroll trumps all. But if the Sox allow Breslow to spend while he rebuilds, this could be Theo 2.0. And that would be a good thing for a franchise that has lost its way in recent seasons.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Amazingly enough, Shaugnessy seems to like this move.

 

Perhaps the best news about Breslow is that Theo Epstein’s fingerprints are all over this important Red Sox hire.

 

Theo is the one who first brought Breslow to the Red Sox in 2006. Breslow pitched in 88 games at Pawtucket over two seasons and got into 13 with the Sox before Epstein let him go on waivers during spring training 2008. Breslow returned in 2012 and was part of the 2013 World Series winners.

 

While Breslow continued his 12-year big league career, Theo moved on to Chicago, enhancing his Hall of Fame résumé by winning another curse-busting World Series with the Cubs in 2016.

All the while, Theo never forgot about his fellow Yale prodigy.

 

After Breslow’s final season, a year in the minors in 2018, Epstein’s Cubs were among the many teams to pursue him for a front office position. The Cubs were having problems developing pitching. Impressed with Breslow’s brilliance, integrity, and relentlessness, Epstein identified him as a person who could fix things.

 

Breslow was living in Newton, looking for a challenge in baseball, and had spoken with then-Sox baseball boss Dave Dombrowski. It turned out that Breslow wanted too much and was perhaps too analytical for the old-school Dombrowski, who won a World Series with the Sox in ‘18 but was fired by John Henry the following year.

 

Epstein feared the Cubs were falling behind other organizations in the ever-evolving area of pitching development. Theo went after Breslow, but it was not an easy hire. Breslow had more questions for the Cubs than the Cubs had for him.

 

They turned out to be a better fit than the Red Sox. Within a year, the Cubs turned over their entire minor league pitching operation to Breslow. When Epstein left the Cubs after the 2020 season, Jed Hoyer took over and made Breslow assistant general manager.

 

Today Epstein is an MLB consultant, largely responsible for the pitch clock that rescued baseball in 2023, but he still has the ear of Red Sox CEO Sam Kennedy, who was in charge of the “robust search” for a new baseball boss.

 

Epstein and Kennedy were baseball teammates at Brookline High School and started their front office careers together in the 1990s, working for Larry Lucchino’s San Diego Padres. When Lucchino came to Boston as part of Henry’s new ownership group in 2002, he negotiated with Padres owner John Moores to bring the duo to Boston. “Free the Brookline 2″ was a jovial chant around the Sox offices when Lucchino was attempting to liberate Epstein and Kennedy from San Diego.

 

Fast-forward 21 years, and you can be darned sure Kennedy talked to Theo to get the thumbs-up on Breslow.

 

With Breslow on board, Sox fans can expect a chief baseball officer who is curious, fearless, and wildly intellectual. A World Series champion, known to be a great teammate, Breslow will have the attention of the players, unlike most analytic gurus. He also will be an intellectual match for Henry, who loves numbers, problem solving, and late-night email exchanges.

 

“He does relate well to players,” said one of Breslow’s advocates, a longtime MLB employee. “He’s a 5-10 Jewish kid who played 12 years in the big leagues because he knows how to get the best out of himself and rise to the occasion. He was a very well-liked teammate everywhere.”

 

In a perfect world, Breslow would come to Boston under a veteran baseball boss. But this is not a perfect world. Breslow will have to learn on the job and hopefully will be empowered to spend some of Henry’s money.

 

Epstein is careful not to insert himself into Sox business. His official, canned statement on Breslow: “Craig is one of the most impressive and impactful baseball people I’ve ever met. He combines a powerful intellect and deep pitching expertise with a real understanding of players and fearless approach to problem solving. With his mind, work ethic, and character, there is no limit to what he can accomplish in this game.”

 

Swell. But it’s far more than that. Epstein, who won two World Series here, then another title with the Cubs, believes that the inexperienced Breslow is the solution for all that plagues the Red Sox in 2023.

 

It’s not going to be easy, and it could blow up if ownership’s post-2018 model of making money while driving down payroll trumps all. But if the Sox allow Breslow to spend while he rebuilds, this could be Theo 2.0. And that would be a good thing for a franchise that has lost its way in recent seasons.

 

What are baseball-reference's W-L over-under on Breslow's BRI ("brilliance, integrity, and relentlessness")?

 

90/78... 90 = Boy Wonder, 78 = Yale kinda sucks...

 

Btw: 84 = the harmonic mean of a team that can skimp and save and still make the World Series;

 

JH: "If you can only build a roster that wins one more game per month than we did in each of the past two years, we can have 84 wins, like Arizona did this season..."

 

Craig, swiping right-handed at family cat that tip-toed across his keyboard during the Zoom call: "It's cool; he's curious..."

[harmony]

Did Craig Breslow ever pitch against Texas Ranger VP and general manager Chris Young when Breslow was at Yale and Young at Princeton?

 

The former Ivy Leaguers, born 15 months apart, have returned to their geographical roots as MLB executives.

Edited October 28, 2023 by harmony

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Did Craig Breslow ever pitch against Texas Ranger VP and general manager Chris Young when Breslow was at Yale and Young at Princeton?

 

The former Ivy Leaguers, who 15 months apart, have returned to their roots as MLB executives.

 

When pulling ivy roots, Craig advises to always wear work gloves -- with no Velcro. Chris just warns, "Leaves of three, let it be."

[notin]

I think this is the only way you can intentionally tank. Unless of course players are purposefully trying to strike out or give up home runs. I doubt there are any players willing to do that on purpose.

 

With fielding an inferior team, if it’s September first and you’re securely in last place, why pile up innings on arms, or play guys every day who are near a full season and can use rest?

 

I think it makes sense to play younger guys more, not to lose but to see what you have in them. If you end up winning games with those players don’t you get excited for the future? Would t you be happy about that? You’d think in an “intentional tank” you wouldn’t be happy winning games there but I doubt that.

 

Let’s say the Sox switched up months but ended with the same record, but played .600 ball in September with more of the youth playing. Does anyone really think John Henry is sitting around saying “damnit, why are these young guys who we have under team control for 6 years and could possible help win future championships playing so well!!!!!”

 

I don’t think teams intentionally tank. It just makes so very little sense for baseball

 

In order to get traded from the Brewers, former shortstop Gary Sheffield used to make errors and strikeout on purpose…

[moonslav59]

I like what I’m reading, here.

 

If this guy can fix our pitcher development issue, he’ll be a great hire.

[Hugh2]

In order to get traded from the Brewers, former shortstop Gary Sheffield used to make errors and strikeout on purpose…

 

We could all argue this all day, and there are a million reasons we could all say we are right or wrong.

 

But if we have to use an incident from 1991, 32 years ago, about 1 individual 22-year-old.....it kind of doesn't make the argument that tanking is a thing. If anything, it helps make the argument that it is not and that is an exception, it's also a young individual and not a team.

[Hugh2]

Why pile up innings on arms, or play guys every day who are near a full season, and could use some rest? Maybe fans who are paying big bucks, and have bought tickets to see the players play months in advance want to see them play. Also if you’re playing teams still in postseason contention you should put your best team out there.

 

I don't fully disagree, I just don't think you need to push those guys either.

 

For example, I don't think you're sitting a guy like Bello for the whole month, but do you skip a start, or give him an extra day of rest down the stretch when you're out of it? absolutely.

[Bellhorn04]

We could all argue this all day, and there are a million reasons we could all say we are right or wrong.

 

But if we have to use an incident from 1991, 32 years ago, about 1 individual 22-year-old.....it kind of doesn't make the argument that tanking is a thing. If anything, it helps make the argument that it is not and that is an exception, it's also a young individual and not a team.

 

The Astros are a clear-cut example of a team tanking. It's not even in dispute, really.

[Old Red]

I don't fully disagree, I just don't think you need to push those guys either.

 

For example, I don't think you're sitting a guy like Bello for the whole month, but do you skip a start, or give him an extra day of rest down the stretch when you're out of it? absolutely.

 

I agree on the pitching part, but I don’t think you need to rest every day players the last month if the team is out of it. Should Raffy been rested? Like I said fans pay big bucks especially in Boston, and want to see their best team on the field when they go watch them.