A Realistic View at 2024: Part I

[Old Red]

Your obsession with moon is far, far creepier…

 

As yours with me.🙈🤭

[mvp 78]

Your obsession with moon is far, far creepier…

 

It's like my two kids. Every morning, they fight before school. No matter what we do as parents and how we coach the children, they are just magnets to each other. The rest of the day, they get along fine. First thing in the morning, they are both grumpy and just miserable and need to leave each other alone.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Could trade him at the deadline or offer him a QO?

 

A team like the Sox should have at least gotten him on a 2 year deal unless they had something bigger planned for next year.

 

Let's see: Lucas 6'6"... Roki 6'4" -- nope!

[notin]

As yours with me.

 

Or yours with me. You seem to keep repeating back things I’ve said to discredit me. Even though it’s been shown you blatantly (and intentionally?) misquote me in the process.

 

Either way, your obsession with moon tops either of those situations. I assume you have a shrine in your basement dedicated to his avatar…

[notin]

Or a trade at the deadline? Sox may be over the CBT at the deadline and it would be a waste to go the QO route as you'd only get a 4th rounder on a QO offer.

 

Deadline deal is also possible. Of course, they might be in a position to buy at the deadline, too…

[mvp 78]

Let's see: Lucas 6'6"... Roki 6'4" -- nope!

 

Roki will just hand select whatever team he wants to go to since he's going to be limited to Int'l bonus pool restrictions.

[mvp 78]

Deadline deal is also possible. Of course, they might be in a position to buy at the deadline, too…

 

Oh sure!

[Hugh2]

Getting a draft pick for one year on a guy is a pretty sizable consolation prize for having a pitcher leave after one year.

 

In a vacuum I think the Giolito deal is great, it’s the lack of other moves to strengthen the rotation that worries me.

[mvp 78]

Getting a draft pick for one year on a guy is a pretty sizable consolation prize for having a pitcher leave after one year.

 

In a vacuum I think the Giolito deal is great, it’s the lack of other moves to strengthen the rotation that worries me.

 

Nah, it's the whole "draft pick if he's good, stuck with him if he stinks" part that raises the eyebrows.

[Old Red]

Or yours with me. You seem to keep repeating back things I’ve said to discredit me. Even though it’s been shown you blatantly (and intentionally?) misquote me in the process.

 

Either way, your obsession with moon tops either of those situations. I assume you have a shrine in your basement dedicated to his avatar…

You do all this worrying about discrediting when you do it yourself. As for Moon I’m just calling out a PAF. Got any old Sporting News (newspapers) that I can check the box scores in? Those were my favorites.

[moonslav59]

Your obsession with moon is far, far creepier…

 

Did we, or did we not have 20 players needing immediate replacing and upgrading from the EOY 2019 roster? (I thought this was something we could all agree on.)

 

I'm not even counting the loss of Betts, Price and Porcello, who we knew we'd never replace, in kind, on that budget.

[notin]

Nah, it's the whole "draft pick if he's good, stuck with him if he stinks" part that raises the eyebrows.

 

Unless he sucks the first year but then is good the second.

 

I’m hoping Bailey can fix him…

[moonslav59]

It's like my two kids. Every morning, they fight before school. No matter what we do as parents and how we coach the children, they are just magnets to each other. The rest of the day, they get along fine. First thing in the morning, they are both grumpy and just miserable and need to leave each other alone.

 

Wrong.... again.

[mvp 78]

Did we, or did we not have 20 players needing immediate replacing and upgrading from the EOY 2019 roster? (I thought this was something we could all agree on.)

 

I'm not even counting the loss of Betts, Price and Porcello, who we knew we'd never replace, in kind, on that budget.

 

No.

[mvp 78]

Unless he sucks the first year but then is good the second.

 

I’m hoping Bailey can fix him…

 

The hope is that Bailey and the rest of the pitching overhaul can pull a minor miracle.

[moonslav59]

No.

 

List the 21 not needing an upgrade. (Remember Porcello was a sure goner. We can argue about how we coulda-shoulda kept Betts and maybe Price, but go ahead and count them in your 21.)

 

The 12 Man Foundation:

Betts, Bogey, JD, Devers, JBJ, Beni, Vaz

Eovaldi, Price, ERod, Porcello (Sale on IL)

 

The Supporting 8

Holt, Moreland, Leon, Marco Hernandez

Workman, Barnes, Josh Taylor, Walden

 

The 20 that was in serious need or upgrading, going into 2020 (Some may have forgotten just how bad the bottom of our 40 was, when DD departed.):

Brian Johnson (5th SP)

Ryan Brasier

H Hembree

Marco Hernandez

Sam Travis

DHern

Cashner

H Velazquez

Ryan Weber

Colten Brewer

Josh A Smith, Lakins, Chacin, Shawaryn, Poyner, T Kelley, C Owings, Gorkys Hernandez

 

The AAA team was basically this:

Kyle Hart

Daniel McGrath

Teddy Stankiewicz

Tanner Houck

Domingo Tapia

Jenrry Mejia

Austin Maddox

Zach Putnam

Erasmo Ramirez

Kevin Lenik

C: Oscar Hernandez, Jake Romanski

1B: Ockimey & Witte

2B: Deiner Lopez

3B: Dalbec

SS: CJ Chatham/ T-W Lin

LF: Sturgeon/Brentz

CF: Matheny

RF: Rusney

DH: Chavis

 

Other top prospects below AAA:

3. Casas

6. Groome

7. A Flores (RIP)

9. Feltman

10. Mata

11. Howlett

12. Decker

13. Duran

14. D Diaz

16. Jimenez

17. Northcut

18. Scherff

19. D reyes

20. Schellenger

[moonslav59]

The hope is that Bailey and the rest of the pitching overhaul can pull a minor miracle.

 

That does seem to be what the whole season depends on- along with plus health.

[Old Red]

The hope is that Bailey and the rest of the pitching overhaul can pull a minor miracle.

 

Bailey is going to coach up the pitching staff, and the infield D is going to get coached up. What can go wrong?

[Old Red]

List the 21 not needing an upgrade. (Remember Porcello was a sure goner. We can argue about how we coulda-shoulda kept Betts and maybe Price, but go ahead and count them in your 21.)

 

The 12 Man Foundation:

Betts, Bogey, JD, Devers, JBJ, Beni, Vaz

Eovaldi, Price, ERod, Porcello (Sale on IL)

 

The Supporting 8

Holt, Moreland, Leon, Marco Hernandez

Workman, Barnes, Josh Taylor, Walden

 

The 20 that was in serious need or upgrading, going into 2020 (Some may have forgotten just how bad the bottom of our 40 was, when DD departed.):

Brian Johnson (5th SP)

Ryan Brasier

H Hembree

Marco Hernandez

Sam Travis

DHern

Cashner

H Velazquez

Ryan Weber

Colten Brewer

Josh A Smith, Lakins, Chacin, Shawaryn, Poyner, T Kelley, C Owings, Gorkys Hernandez

 

The AAA team was basically this:

Kyle Hart

Daniel McGrath

Teddy Stankiewicz

Tanner Houck

Domingo Tapia

Jenrry Mejia

Austin Maddox

Zach Putnam

Erasmo Ramirez

Kevin Lenik

C: Oscar Hernandez, Jake Romanski

1B: Ockimey & Witte

2B: Deiner Lopez

3B: Dalbec

SS: CJ Chatham/ T-W Lin

LF: Sturgeon/Brentz

CF: Matheny

RF: Rusney

DH: Chavis

 

Other top prospects below AAA:

3. Casas

6. Groome

7. A Flores (RIP)

9. Feltman

10. Mata

11. Howlett

12. Decker

13. Duran

14. D Diaz

16. Jimenez

17. Northcut

18. Scherff

19. D reyes

20. Schellenger

 

You seem to be the only one that cares about this stuff. Most fans that I know, and hear care about the WL record of the big league team. I frankly could care less if Bloom had to replace the whole 40 man plus overhaul the entire farm system.

[mvp 78]

The 20 that was in serious need or upgrading, going into 2020 (Some may have forgotten just how bad the bottom of our 40 was, when DD departed.):

Brian Johnson (5th SP) - Was fine and even better than the depth options they ended up having!

Ryan Brasier - Was fine

H Hembree - Was good enough to be traded!

Marco Hernandez - injured MiLB guy, easy to replace 1

Sam Travis - 2

DHern - prospect status still intact at this moment

Cashner - replaced with Perez 3

H Velazquez - Was fine and better than what they put out in 2020 for starting options

Ryan Weber - Would have been fine if left as a reliever

Colten Brewer - Was fine as a reliever

Josh A Smith, - was replaced with nonsense 4

Lakins, - pitched well for BAL in 2020

Chacin, - pitched for 3 more years in the bigs, more than we can say for some of the Bloom acquisitions

Shawaryn, - 5

Poyner, - Sox still liked him enough at this point to keep him until '21

T Kelley, - 6

C Owings, - Sox replaced him with... CHRIS OWINGS!

Gorkys Hernandez - 7

 

 

I counted 7 players on your list of desperation that should have been replaced. Most of these guys are so low leverage that bringing a new person in shouldn't have had any impact on the MLB team whatsoever.

[dgalehouse]

It's crazy to look at the 40 man roster seniority ranking (date added to the 40, not time in the Sox system.)

 

Devers, of course, is #1 (added 7/24/17 right before his call-up)

 

Bobby Dee is #2 (added 11/20/19 to avoid Rule 5.)

 

#3 is Nick Pivetta! WOW! (Added 8/21/20)

 

Houck, Mata, Wong and Whitlock were added after Sept 15, 2020, and Duran is #8 by being added in the summer or 2021.

 

That's some serious roster turn-over.

 

Here was the 40 Man Roster to end 2019:

 

The 12 Man Foundation:

Betts, Bogey, JD, Devers, JBJ, Beni, Vaz

Eovaldi, Price, ERod, Porcello (Sale on IL)

 

The Supporting 8

Holt, Moreland, Leon, Marco Hernandez

Workman, Barnes, Josh Taylor, Walden

 

The 20 that was in serious need or upgrading, going into 2020 (Some may have forgotten just how bad the bottom of our 40 was, when DD departed.):

Brian Johnson (5th SP)

Ryan Brasier

H Hembree

Marco Hernandez

Sam Travis

DHern

Cashner

H Velazquez

Ryan Weber

Colten Brewer

Josh A Smith, Lakins, Chacin, Shawaryn, Poyner, T Kelley, C Owings, Gorkys Hernandez

 

The AAA team was basically this:

Kyle Hart

Daniel McGrath

Teddy Stankiewicz

Tanner Houck

Domingo Tapia

Jenrry Mejia

Austin Maddox

Zach Putnam

Erasmo Ramirez

Kevin Lenik

C: Oscar Hernandez, Jake Romanski

1B: Ockimey & Witte

2B: Deiner Lopez

3B: Dalbec

SS: CJ Chatham/ T-W Lin

LF: Sturgeon/Brentz

CF: Matheny

RF: Rusney

DH: Chavis

 

Other top prospects below AAA:

3. Casas

6. Groome

7. A Flores (RIP)

9. Feltman

10. Mata

11. Howlett

12. Decker

13. Duran

14. D Diaz

16. Jimenez

17. Northcut

18. Scherff

19. D reyes

20. Schellenger

 

I wasn't kidding, when I said Bloom had about 20-22 slots to upgrade before 2020 and a tiny winter budget to do it. (On top of that, we lost Betts, Price and Porcello to trades and free agency and ERod & Sale to injury or COVID.)

 

But, of course, context is just excuse-making.

 

I'm going to read this as soon as I finish War and Peace.

[moonslav59]

I counted 7 players on your list of desperation that should have been replaced. Most of these guys are so low leverage that bringing a new person in shouldn't have had any impact on the MLB team whatsoever.

 

So, all but 7 were expected to help the team win- not hinder it or be near enough to average.

 

You don't win, too often, with 8 stars and 32 replacement level players, or 8 stars, 12 good role players and 24 replacement level players.

[moonslav59]

I'm going to read this as soon as I finish War and Peace.

 

Avoiding context is easier: I get that.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm going to read this as soon as I finish War and Peace.

 

Dude, this is a Red Sox forum. Go read fWAR and watch F-Troop.

[mvp 78]

So, all but 7 were expected to help the team win- not hinder it or be near enough to average.

 

You don't win, too often, with 8 stars and 32 replacement level players, or 8 stars, 12 good role players and 24 replacement level players.

 

You said the foundation was 12 players and there was another supporting 8 players. Brasier, Johnson, Hembree, Brewer and Weber were good enough to be somewhere on the roster considering what they ended up with anyway. That left 1 more player to fill out the 26 man squad: Peraza? Pillar? How hard is that? All the other guys are the typical run of the mill AAA/AAAA depth options that we have year in and year out. We are always churning through them and usually overstating their value!!! Last offseason people were excited about Ryan Sherriff and Oddanier Mosqueda FFS...

[moonslav59]

You said the foundation was 12 players and there was another supporting 8 players. Brasier, Johnson, Hembree, Brewer and Weber were good enough to be somewhere on the roster considering what they ended up with anyway. That left 1 more player to fill out the 26 man squad: Peraza? Pillar? How hard is that? All the other guys are the typical run of the mill AAA/AAAA depth options that we have year in and year out. We are always churning through them and usually overstating their value!!! Last offseason people were excited about Ryan Sherriff and Oddanier Mosqueda FFS...

 

This wasn't about what we ended up with. It was about identifying how many holes we had in the 40, right after 2019, and I'm not even counting Betts & Price (or ERod and Sale for 2020, only.)

 

The roster was weak after about #18-20. Once Porcello, Betts and Price were known not to be returning, that number grew to over 20, easily. The 5 guys you mentioned were not guys we felt comfortable giving a key role in 2020. Where would they place in the rankings of the 40 man roster at the end of 2023?

 

How about the others you did not name?

 

All I'm saying is, we improved the bottom 20-22 from crap to mediocrity from Sept 2019 to Sept 2023.

 

Do you disagree?

 

The depth beyond the 40 looks better, too.

[mvp 78]

This wasn't about what we ended up with. It was about identifying how many holes we had in the 40, right after 2019, and I'm not even counting Betts & Price (or ERod and Sale for 2020, only.)

 

The roster was weak after about #18-20. Once Porcello, Betts and Price were known not to be returning, that number grew to over 20, easily. The 5 guys you mentioned were not guys we felt comfortable giving a key role in 2020. Where would they place in the rankings of the 40 man roster at the end of 2023?

 

How about the others you did not name?

 

All I'm saying is, we improved the bottom 20-22 from crap to mediocrity from Sept 2019 to Sept 2023.

 

Do you disagree?

 

The depth beyond the 40 looks better, too.

 

Did they improve the bottom 20 guys on the 40 man roster from Dec '19 to now? Sure. Did it need to take 4 years? No. Was it partially due to DD guys: Bello/Wikelman/Crawford/Houck/Mata/Murphy/Perales/Walter/Casas/Dalbec/Duran/Rafaela that advanced up the org because Bloom never traded anyone? Yes.

[moonslav59]

Did they improve the bottom 20 guys on the 40 man roster from Dec '19 to now? Sure. Did it need to take 4 years? No. Was it partially due to DD guys: Bello/Wikelman/Crawford/Houck/Mata/Murphy/Perales/Walter/Casas/Dalbec/Duran/Rafaela that advanced up the org because Bloom never traded anyone? Yes.

 

No doubt, some of DD's guys have been a big part of the upgrades, and that should be expected as his farm guys matured.

 

I've never short-changed DD's era or his impact on the current team. I've said, countless times, most of the farm guys he traded away did not amount to much. That does not change the fact that from the time Devers was called up in 2017, we got very little help from the farm, except for maybe Houck and 4 months of Dalbec, until Bello, Casas and Duran in 2023. Some of that is on Ben not DD, but the roster was really bad after the top 18-20 guys.

 

I'm not saying ignore everything else to say that one area improved. I'm not trying to give Bloom all or even most of the credit.

 

We got better in that area.

 

It looks like we got better on the farm, despite little pitching hope.

 

It does help, when building a team to improve in those two areas.

 

We have a ways to go. Maybe 2 solid SP'er- maybe we need more.

[dgalehouse]

Dude, this is a Red Sox forum. Go read fWAR and watch F-Troop.

 

Corporal Agarn needed a little more velocity on his heater. Funny show, though.

[Nick]

Appears Orioles are leaving the Rays model.

 

$122M still under the cap after the trade.