Bloom fired

[Old Red]

Jeez, I was just correcting moon.

 

Sorry, but you’ve also edged him on.

[moonslav59]

What’s your excuse for not seeing it?🤭Or the Kike resigning where you said more than once that the Red Sox couldn’t have found anyone better than Kike for $10M. What’s your excuse on that one?

 

I have admitted I was wrong, and will again now, if that makes you happy. Unlike you, I have no problem admitting I have been wrong many times, and more than these two you listed.

 

I had no idea how good Bloom would be. It seemed like the direction we were going was to go cheap and try to build a roster with roughs in the gems, and Bloom seemed like that kind of hire. (I thought the same about the Dan D hire back in the 90's.) He did not succeed at what I hoped he would do. I did not make a prediction on whether he would be good or bad. You did and you were right. I'd pat you on the back, but it's all bruised and red from self-patting.

 

I was a big Kike fan. You had big issues with that, for some reason. Yes, I thought the $10M deal for Kike as our 2023 CF was a good deal, at the time. I was dead wrong. No excuses. I was wrong. Very wrong. Is that enough, for you? I'll say it again, if you want.

 

I was wrong on dozens of other opinions and suggestions. I make tons of suggestions and give my opinions freely and often. I get some right and some wrong. When I'm right, I don't pat myself on the back for months and years.

[moonslav59]

It’s nothing new.

 

Billy Beane was offered the job and even announced as the new GM when Henry took over but famously backed out. Turned out to be one of the best things to happen to the Red Sox in team history, since they then just moved on the a little known internal option in Epstein.

 

Really how many external hires for GM/CBO have there been in recent team history? Really just Dombrowski and Bloom, right? (I suppose Mike Port, if you count interim guys.)

 

If the goal is to, to paraphrase Keith Law, start acting like the Red Sox again, shouldn’t start with hitting from within?

 

It fits his narrative the Sox management is in disarray. He will latch onto any quote or story that supports his bias.

 

Rinse and repeat.

[Bellhorn04]

It fits his narrative the Sox management is in disarray.

 

That's a pretty widespread view right now.

[Old Red]

That's a pretty widespread view right now.

 

I believe you are 100% correct when you say that the view out there in MLB is wide spread that the Red Sox are in some sort of disarray. It’s not that hard to see unless you don’t want to see it, and it is a lot more than my narrative, and pretty blind to see, and think other wise.

Edited October 17, 2023 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

That's a pretty widespread view right now.

 

I never said it wasn't true, or that only a few believe it to be true.

 

Personally, I think they know what they want and are doing, but are either horrible at communicating it to fans and the media, or they know the fans and media will not like what the hear, if the truth is fully told.

[Hugh2]

That's a pretty widespread view right now.

 

Well its' the nice new shiney toy in town with the Boston Media.

 

You could have an event happen, have it reported two entirely different ways (factually) and rile up the masses in two completely different ways.

 

The media obviously loves the narrative that it's a s*** show and no one wants to come here. That type of story typically sells a lot more.

[mvp 78]

This says nothing as to why Miami would be a better job than Boston, as usual.

 

The abrupt departure of Marlins general manager Kim Ng on Monday morning came as a result of numerous instances in which Ng — who led the Marlins to the playoffs this season for the first time in a full-season year since 2003 — felt like she was being stripped of her power and underappreciated, multiple sources briefed on the matter told The Athletic . . .

 

. . . Ng, who people within the Marlins organization lauded for helping change the culture, was also having trouble getting rid of some of Miami’s holdovers from previous regimes. While the club did part ways with polarizing ​​vice president of scouting and player development Gary Denbo midway through 2022, and senior director of international operations Adrian Lorenzo did not return when his contract was up last year, sources say Ng wanted to make changes in some other high-ranking leadership roles in scouting and player development, which ownership seemingly was not receptive to.

[Old Red]

I never said it wasn't true, or that only a few believe it to be true.

 

Personally, I think they know what they want and are doing, but are either horrible at communicating it to fans and the media, or they know the fans and media will not like what the hear, if the truth is fully told.

 

I think it’s the prevalent view all over MLB, and has been for a couple of years now. JH, and Bloom have done a number to the Red Sox, and it’s not a good number at that.

[moonslav59]

I think it’s the prevalent view all over MLB, and has been for a couple of years now.

 

I agree and by a wide margin. If it wasn't for the 2021 season, we'd be talking 4-5 years.

[Old Red]

The abrupt departure of Marlins general manager Kim Ng on Monday morning came as a result of numerous instances in which Ng — who led the Marlins to the playoffs this season for the first time in a full-season year since 2003 — felt like she was being stripped of her power and underappreciated, multiple sources briefed on the matter told The Athletic . . .

 

. . . Ng, who people within the Marlins organization lauded for helping change the culture, was also having trouble getting rid of some of Miami’s holdovers from previous regimes. While the club did part ways with polarizing ​​vice president of scouting and player development Gary Denbo midway through 2022, and senior director of international operations Adrian Lorenzo did not return when his contract was up last year, sources say Ng wanted to make changes in some other high-ranking leadership roles in scouting and player development, which ownership seemingly was not receptive to.

The Mets have a GM opening too, which may be an option too.

[Old Red]

I agree and by a wide margin. If it wasn't for the 2021 season, we'd be talking 4-5 years.

 

Things looked promising coming off 2021 into the 2022 season especially after adding Story, but things went south.

[notin]

Things looked promising coming off 2021 into the 2022 season especially after adding Story, but things went south.

 

Even with the slow start to 2022, the Sox got hot, got back on it, we’re a couple games out at the trade deadline, and Bloom basically quit. The worst part is this became a pattern for some reason…

[Bellhorn04]

Even with the slow start to 2022, the Sox got hot, got back on it, we’re a couple games out at the trade deadline, and Bloom basically quit. The worst part is this became a pattern for some reason…

 

And as you know, others have complained even louder that he should have sold off at the 2022 deadline.

[Old Red]

And as you know, others have complained even louder that he should have sold off at the 2022 deadline.

 

That was quite the debate to sell, or not to sell.

[moonslav59]

Things looked promising coming off 2021 into the 2022 season especially after adding Story, but things went south.

 

In terms or wins and losses, yes.

 

Story's injury and the decline from many returning players, some still firmly in their prime years was just too much to overcome.

 

I look at the 2020 roster during a 60 game season, where we used 20 batters and 30 pitchers, and the roster now and see a northward direction.

 

I look at the 4-5 years of youth and prospects from no prospects of note, other than Houck, to come up to the big club and help from mis 2017 until Casas and Bello, and what we have seen recently from our youth as northward movement. I see the farm as looking vastly better, but I know you don't care, until you see results.

 

Back before 2021, I thought and said we had about 12-14 roster slots that need improvement to become a contender. I think Bloom swung and missed with many of his 2021 additions, but somehow we did well. Maybe that was just adding to false hopes, but 12-14 was better than the 18-22 open slots going into 2020 (after the Betts & Price trades and word that ERod and Sale were missing the full season.)

 

Before 2022, I thought we had 6-8 open slots to fill- a continued move in a northward direction, despite crappy W-L records.

 

No, I see 3-5 major slots that need to be filled from outside the system: SP. SP, SP, RHB (OF/2B) and maybe LH RP. The rest of the foundation seems good, with maybe a few relying too much on younger kids to come through, but those slots have 2-3 options, in case one fails.

 

I guess I'm near alone in seeing progression amongst all the disarray and smokescreens thrown at us by team spokesmen.

 

2020 Team:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2020.shtml

 

2024 Foundation:

https://www.soxprospects.com/2024.htm

Edited October 17, 2023 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

And as you know, others have complained even louder that he should have sold off at the 2022 deadline.

 

Playing it halfway was the worst choice, although Abreu, EValdez, Rosier and McGuire may end up being more helpful than originally thought.

 

2023 was basically halfway (or no way,) as all we did was add Urias.

[notin]

And as you know, others have complained even louder that he should have sold off at the 2022 deadline.

 

The thing is, at least that would have been a decision. Maybe unpopular, but not necessarily bad. Same with 2023.

 

Heck even the dual “buying and selling” approach would have been something. But the limited and ultimately useless moves Bloom made proved inconsequential at best and arguably detrimental…

[Bellhorn04]

I guess I'm near alone in seeing progression amongst all the disarray and smokescreens thrown at us by team spokesmen.

 

I think everyone knows there has been progress in the youth movement.

 

But it's hard to feel confident in the team's leadership coming off back to back 78 win seasons that cost 460 million and resulted in yet another CBO being fired.

[Old Red]

I think everyone knows there has been progress in the youth movement.

 

But it's hard to feel confident in the team's leadership coming off back to back 78 win seasons that cost 460 million and resulted in yet another CBO being fired.

I guess it depends on what you view as progress. The youth movement is here, which is fine, but how good are they going to be, and how much success will they have. Is the current crop going to be better than Mookie, Bogey, or Raffy? A better farm ranking is great, but all that means is it is ranked higher than before when it wasn’t so great. Sales contract will be gone after this year, which will help going forward, but if Casas, Duran, Raf Man, Abreu, and Mayer don’t all turn out to be good, or at least most of them the Red Sox will be as good as some people think.

[moonslav59]

I think everyone knows there has been progress in the youth movement.

 

But it's hard to feel confident in the team's leadership coming off back to back 78 win seasons that cost 460 million and resulted in yet another CBO being fired.

 

I'm not "confident" the team leadership will switch gears, anytime soon, but I do think the foundation of our roster and budget have improved noticeably since 2020. It's not just about the farm.

 

Although there are still many questions about our younger players and what we can expect from them going forward, we have a a lot of them, who have already shown glimpses of high abilities. Yes, we can be fooled by players like Dalbec and Duran, before 2023, but we don't need them all to do as well or better than they have shown.

 

While Wong and McGuire sort of ended the season on a sour note, along with the whole team, they look more promising, now, than this time, last year (to me, anyway.)

Casas looks like the best case for saying he has proven he belongs as a FT MLB player. His D needs a lot of work, but I am confident in his bat. I feel 10 times better about him than this time last year.

EValdez looks scary on D, but has shown some promise he can transfer his minor league offensive numbers to the bigs. Reyes and Urias both have show skills, at some points in their careers- Urias for 2 full seasons.)

Our OF took leaps and bounds forward from its pitiful 2022 showing, but mostly from vets (Dugo, Duvall and Japan vet Yoshida,) but Duran looked like a different person in 2023. Rafaela and Abreu showed some skills in limited time. With Dugo, Yoshida and Ref still on the roster, we don't need all 3 to be great in 2024- just maybe one, or two to be just good.

What most excites me is how well some of our younger and pre-prime pitchers did, this year. Wick and Crawford look way better than we thought, this time last year. While Bloo struggled at the end of 2023, I'm not sure a single poster felt more highly about him, last October than this one. Houck and Whitlock took steps back, and it's hard to know what they will give us, next year, but I'm guessing at least one will be good, especially if neither are in the rotation.

 

Devers, Story, Yoshida, Dugo, Martin and Jansen are the vets. (Devers may be younger than some of the "kids" I mentioned, but he's a vet.)

 

I like our base, but we have 4 gaping holes (and they are doozies):

SP1

SP2

SP4

Big RHB (CF? or 2B?)

 

Maybe LH RP can make it 5, but I don't count our 5th or 6th best RP'er as "major."

[dgalehouse]

No matter how you spin it, it is not a good thing that the word around baseball is that Red Sox management is kind of screwed up these days. No doubt they will find someone to hire , and maybe someone good, but this whole thing does not put them in a good light at all.

[moonslav59]

I guess it depends on what you view as progress. The youth movement is here, which is fine, but how good are they going to be, and how much success will they have. Is the current crop going to be better than Mookie, Bogey, or Raffy? A better farm ranking is great, but all that means is it is ranked higher than before when it wasn’t so great. Sales contract will be gone after this year, which will help going forward, but if Casas, Duran, Raf Man, Abreu, and Mayer don’t all turn out to be good, or at least most of them the Red Sox will be as good as some people think.

 

No doubt, many will fail or fall short of many of our expectations.

 

It's hard to imagine many farm systems can reproduce a Betts, Bogey and Raffy in such a short period of time. I don't think any of us are thinking that is what we should expect.

 

Yes, our young players who looked good, this year, still need to prove it was a not a fluke, but it's more encouraging to see so many do well than poorly.

 

Even guys we gave up on, or nearly did, showed signs of life in 2023, namely Duran, Crawford and Wink, so early discouraging signs can't always be believe, either.

 

I think you are wrong to say a better ranked farm only means it might be better than before. It also means it looks better than most other teams, at this moment, and that is much more encouraging about the future than being ranked 26th to 30th.

 

They may all be duds. They may all end up like ben's farm that was traded away. That is true, but all a GM can really do is to try and improve the possibilities of positive outcomes. Nothing is certain in MLB.

 

I happen to think our possibilities have improved over 4 years. Some think otherwise or don't want to be bothered with even thinking about this. To each his own.

 

All I can say is I think our future looks better now than it did after any season since 2019, except for before 2022, due to our fine showing in '21.

[moonslav59]

No matter how you spin it, it is not a good thing that the word around baseball is that Red Sox management is kind of screwed up these days. No doubt they will find someone to hire , and maybe someone good, but this whole thing does not put them in a good light at all.

 

If winning is all that matters, we just need to win and this "light" thing won't matter anymore.

[sk7326]

Per Speier at the Globe, the names who HAVE interviewed that we know

 

Eddie Romero Jr

Craig Breslow, Cubs assistant GM/director of pitching ... lives in Newton

Neal Huntington, Cleveland special assistant to the GM ... Pirates GM 2007-2019 which included 3 straight playoff appearances

Thad Levine, Twins GM ... Rangers assistant GM 2005-2016 ... Rangers won the pennant 2010 and 2011

[Old Red]

No doubt, many will fail or fall short of many of our expectations.

 

It's hard to imagine many farm systems can reproduce a Betts, Bogey and Raffy in such a short period of time. I don't think any of us are thinking that is what we should expect.

 

Yes, our young players who looked good, this year, still need to prove it was a not a fluke, but it's more encouraging to see so many do well than poorly.

 

Even guys we gave up on, or nearly did, showed signs of life in 2023, namely Duran, Crawford and Wink, so early discouraging signs can't always be believe, either.

 

I think you are wrong to say a better ranked farm only means it might be better than before. It also means it looks better than most other teams, at this moment, and that is much more encouraging about the future than being ranked 26th to 30th.

 

They may all be duds. They may all end up like ben's farm that was traded away. That is true, but all a GM can really do is to try and improve the possibilities of positive outcomes. Nothing is certain in MLB.

 

I happen to think our possibilities have improved over 4 years. Some think otherwise or don't want to be bothered with even thinking about this. To each his own.

 

All I can say is I think our future looks better now than it did after any season since 2019, except for before 2022, due to our fine showing in '21.

 

I’ve always been big on the farm. The 1967 team was mostly farm raised. The 1975 team was mostly farm raised as was the 1978, and 1986 team. Even the 2018 team had plenty of farm raised on it, so I do get it, but is this current crop going to be anything like these that I mentioned? Lots is riding by some on here on this current crop, and while the rankings are all over the place depending on who’s doing the rankings doesn’t guarantee success just, because they are ranked higher than other teams. You still have to out, and get from the outside too, but that’s not easy either as SD, and the Mets have found out. Texas didn’t do so good last year going out, and spending big, but it’s paying off this year especially with the pitching.

[Old Red]

If winning is all that matters, we just need to win and this "light" thing won't matter anymore.

 

Ask SD, or the Mets if winning doesn’t matter in the here, and now.The Mets blew it up in less than a year. Ask Texas how it is to be winning in the here, and now.

[dgalehouse]

It is a game. A sport . A competition. Winning is the whole object.

[Old Red]

It is a game. A sport . A competition. Winning is the whole object.

 

And should be every time you take the field.

[mvp 78]

The Mets have a GM opening too, which may be an option too.

 

Yes, that is another option, but comparing the Sox and the Marlins has nothing to do with the Mets.