Bloom fired

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Realistically it'll be one of those two at best. One of those two plus Gray or someone more in his price range.

 

Watching Montgomery last night; he'd be the perfect guy to add -- a lefty, not too old, not too expensive, throws an effective curveball, which induces lots of grounders.

 

The only problem is that may not be ideal with a shaky defense behind him. Gotta wonder how radical the new regime shakes up the line-up... will they add a full-time second baseman? keep a .180-hitting shortstop? make changes on the corners -- or just assign Devers and Casas extra practice all winter?

[Bellhorn04]

JDM/Nate should have been traded at last years deadline. Not only would they have a stronger farm, but they would have had a better draft in 2023.

 

They should have traded Turner/Paxton at this years deadline.

 

Impossible to disagree at this point. But it seems like Bloom was in a no-win situation, because making those kind of trades would have been contrary to the stated goal of "competing while rebuilding" - if you're competing you can't pack it in a few games out at the deadline.

[Bellhorn04]

Watching Montgomery last night; he'd be the perfect guy to add -- a lefty, not too old, not too expensive, throws an effective curveball, which induces lots of grounders.

 

The only problem is that may not be ideal with a shaky defense behind him. Gotta wonder how radical the new regime shakes up the line-up... will they add a full-time second baseman? keep a .180-hitting shortstop? make changes on the corners -- or just assign Devers and Casas extra practice all winter?

 

Montgomery is definitely on the list of second-tier targets.

[moonslav59]

I think it's safe to say they didn't fire Bloom with the intent of further payroll cuts.

 

No, but they may never "splurge" during the next guy's 4 year term.

[moonslav59]

Bloom was hired to build “sustainable success” that didn’t mean to not spend and build the farm.

 

He cut payroll, and added payroll that itself may look like dead weight (although Story has a chance to redeem himself). Bloom made good trades, it was just never enough. Even his worse trade wouldn’t have looked as bad if he went out and got a right fielder for 2022, which is what we all thought he would do but he didn’t. That’s the thing, it’s the moves he did not make that hurt the big league club.

 

He was constantly getting outbid because he was unwilling to go a single penny above his evaluation and that left holes on the team, and when they should of been sellers at the deadline he sat pat because he didn’t get the sweet deal he wanted.

 

JDM/Nate should have been traded at last years deadline. Not only would they have a stronger farm, but they would have had a better draft in 2023.

 

They should have traded Turner/Paxton at this years deadline.

 

Yes he built up the farm, but the farm could have been even stronger. The farm could have been so strong he would have had the capital to trade for a legit starting pitcher and deplete our farm to as strong as it is right now.

 

Bloom did some great things at spending money outside of payroll, expanding the scouting department and adding personnel, and that may have a long term positive effects on this team. I thank him for that, I’ve been calling for that for years and did not realize to what extent they had pumped resources into that field.

 

I won’t kick Bloom on the way out, and I find some of the stories coming out now distasteful and blatant smear coming from the FO in an attempt to exonerate themselves from the last 4 years. The Chris Sale story, putting Betts on him. It stinks, it stinks of ********. I grew up on farm folks….I know the smell of ********.

 

But it’s blatantly obvious Bloom didn’t have the nerve to go big. Here’s to hoping Henry is ready to open up that wallet and build a big league club

 

I agree 100%, but there was a rock, and then there was a hard place.

 

We all agree, Bloom was fired for not winning in the here and now, but the biggest gripe also seems to be he did not do enough to sacrifice the here and now for the future.

[Bellhorn04]

No, but they may never "splurge" during the next guy's 4 year term.

 

Anything's possible, but I can't see them not spending this offseason.

[Bellhorn04]

We all agree, Bloom was fired for not winning in the here and now, but the biggest gripe also seems to be he did not do enough to sacrifice the here and now for the future.

 

Contradictory.

[Old Red]

I agree 100%, but there was a rock, and then there was a hard place.

 

We all agree, Bloom was fired for not winning in the here and now, but the biggest gripe also seems to be he did not do enough to sacrifice the here and now for the future.

 

Everywhere I venture I heard Bloom did not win in the here, and now, and that was the biggest complaint, but on the other hand outside of on here I haven’t heard he didn’t do enough sacrifice in the here, and now for the future. Outside of on here I heard very little if any that we could be awesome in 2025.

[moonslav59]

Anything's possible, but I can't see them not spending this offseason.

 

They spent a lot, last winter and still stayed under the line.

 

Devers extension kicks in, next year, so the spending has already started to some degree. (Devers may have made about $29M had he had one more arb year.)

 

We do lose 3 players who contributed quite a bit: JT, Duvall & Paxton. While their contracts were great, for this year, replacing them at that same money will be nearly impossible. (Thanks, Bloom!)

 

I have us at about $50M to spend and not pay tax- $70M, if we go over but stay below the second tax line.

 

We need 3 SP'er, but may get just 2. We need a LH'd RP'er, to some extent and maybe a big RH's bat, unless we put our faith in Story, Ref, Urias & Rafaela.

 

You can maybe get two top pitchers for $50, but then what is left over for those other 2 slots and maybe rotation depth?

 

We could trade for one SP'er and have plenty to spend and not go over any line (my projection.)

 

If we spend close to $70M (my hope,) we can meet all our needs and IMO, be good enough to very very competitive. $70M could bring us Yamamoto and Gray or Montgomery plus Duvall and a LH'd RP'er.

 

[notin]

Anything's possible, but I can't see them not spending this offseason.

 

Really? Money is still getting run by the same guy…

[moonslav59]

Everywhere I venture I heard Bloom did not win in the here, and now, and that was the biggest complaint, but on the other hand outside of on here I haven’t heard he didn’t do enough sacrifice in the here, and now for the future. Outside of on here I heard very little if any that we could be awesome in 2025.

 

It was about losing in the here and now. I am not disagreeing.

 

However, the leaks about not trading Sale, JD, Paxton... show that was part of the reason they lost trust in him.

 

This board did not leak that info.

 

Hence: rock and hard place.

[moonslav59]

Really? Money is still getting run by the same guy…

 

Many felt 2022 was the wake up call for JH. The Devers extension gave hope we might be poised for a splurge.

 

Going over the tax line, in 2022, may have hurt more than we know, but I seriously doubt we'd have gone over in 2023, no matter what we did in 2022.

 

I am no longer expecting a splurge. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

I think the odds are we stay under the line in '24.

[Old Red]

It was about losing in the here and now. I am not disagreeing.

 

However, the leaks about not trading Sale, JD, Paxton... show that was part of the reason they lost trust in him.

 

This board did not leak that info.

 

Hence: rock and hard place.

The point being that not winning in the here, and now was everywhere. Not doing enough for the future was not.

[Bellhorn04]

Really? Money is still getting run by the same guy…

 

I guess it depends on why you think the money guy fired Bloom...

[Bellhorn04]

I really don't get why such a big deal has been made of not trading JD at the 2022 deadline. So we wouldn't have paid tax that year. Big deal. How would that benefit 2023 or 2024? Do we think Henry would have spent a pile more? What's the theory there?

[notin]

I guess it depends on why you think the money guy fired Bloom...

 

I look at it this way.

 

In the last 3 years, the Sox were right there at the trade deadline. In two of those years, he Bloom did nothing and the talk fell apart. The one year he made moves and reached the ALCS. The next year he didn’t and the team collapsed. The third year he didn’t learn from the second year.

 

Not sure if that’s why Henry fired him. It is why I would have…

[Old Red]

I really don't get why such a big deal has been made of not trading JD at the 2022 deadline. So we wouldn't have paid tax that year. Big deal. How would that benefit 2023 or 2024? Do we think Henry would have spent a pile more? What's the theory there?

 

It wasn’t a big deal, and it wouldn’t have made any difference for this year, or next. Fire sale talk was being discussed on here, before the 2022 season even started.

[Bellhorn04]

I look at it this way.

 

In the last 3 years, the Sox were right there at the trade deadline. In two of those years, he Bloom did nothing and the talk fell apart. The one year he made moves and reached the ALCS. The next year he didn’t and the team collapsed. The third year he didn’t learn from the second year.

 

Not sure if that’s why Henry fired him. It is why I would have…

 

There are a lot of different explanations floating around out there.

 

All I know is, this team will be non-competitive again in 2024 if they don't shell out for some starting pitching.

[moonslav59]

The point being that not winning in the here, and now was everywhere. Not doing enough for the future was not.

 

You are arguing with someone who agrees.

[moonslav59]

There are a lot of different explanations floating around out there.

 

All I know is, this team will be non-competitive again in 2024 if they don't shell out for some starting pitching.

 

In hindsight, trading Sale would not have really hurt the "here and now," but at the time, everyone would have viewed it as giving up on the now.

 

I'm just pointing out how leaking this news seems to run counter to the narrative that Bloom should have tried harder to win now.

 

I suppose he could have trades Sale and then made other "buy" traes to more than offset trading Sale.

 

Again, it's obvious they fired Bloom for not winning in '22 and '23, but they are throwing everything they can at him, including stuff that goes counter to their narrative.

 

It's like they are trying to give everyone a reason to blame Bloom and only Bloom, and not themselves to even a tiny extent.

[Hugh2]

Impossible to disagree at this point. But it seems like Bloom was in a no-win situation, because making those kind of trades would have been contrary to the stated goal of "competing while rebuilding" - if you're competing you can't pack it in a few games out at the deadline.

 

I don't disagree with this point either, still his "hug the deadline" straddle approach is a symptom of his indecisiveness. Grow some balls and make a decision, life is about risk.

[notin]

I really don't get why such a big deal has been made of not trading JD at the 2022 deadline. So we wouldn't have paid tax that year. Big deal. How would that benefit 2023 or 2024? Do we think Henry would have spent a pile more? What's the theory there?

 

 

I think that point is overblown. And who are the Sox allegedly trading him to and for what?

[mvp 78]

I really don't get why such a big deal has been made of not trading JD at the 2022 deadline. So we wouldn't have paid tax that year. Big deal. How would that benefit 2023 or 2024? Do we think Henry would have spent a pile more? What's the theory there?

 

The comp picks go from 4th rounders to 2nd rounders plus additional draft money to spend that goes with it. That matters to me.

[notin]

There are a lot of different explanations floating around out there.

 

All I know is, this team will be non-competitive again in 2024 if they don't shell out for some starting pitching.

 

As long as they don’t go overboard. We don’t want to find out Roman Anthony is an incredible player and then have to deal him away because we dropped a few too many Benjamins for far too long on Aaron Nola and Jack Flaherty…

[mvp 78]

Watching Montgomery last night; he'd be the perfect guy to add -- a lefty, not too old, not too expensive, throws an effective curveball, which induces lots of grounders.

 

The only problem is that may not be ideal with a shaky defense behind him. Gotta wonder how radical the new regime shakes up the line-up... will they add a full-time second baseman? keep a .180-hitting shortstop? make changes on the corners -- or just assign Devers and Casas extra practice all winter?

 

That .180 SS, is a great fielder. The shaky defender is in LA right now.

[Old Red]

In hindsight, trading Sale would not have really hurt the "here and now," but at the time, everyone would have viewed it as giving up on the now.

 

I'm just pointing out how leaking this news seems to run counter to the narrative that Bloom should have tried harder to win now.

 

I suppose he could have trades Sale and then made other "buy" traes to more than offset trading Sale.

 

Again, it's obvious they fired Bloom for not winning in '22 and '23, but they are throwing everything they can at him, including stuff that goes counter to their narrative.

 

It's like they are trying to give everyone a reason to blame Bloom and only Bloom, and not themselves to even a tiny extent.

Agree 100% that trading Sale would not have hurt the here, and now. Disagree 100% that everyone that everyone would have viewed it as giving up. I certainly wouldn’t have, and it’s not like he was making any big contributions anyway when he was able to pitch, and really hadn’t since the 2018 season. I don’t know what they would have done with the money saved, but trading Sale to me would have been a win, win for the Red Sox. JH is certainly not blameless in the downfall of the Red Sox, and plenty of fans have, and will hold him accountable when ever he shows his face.

[moonslav59]

I think that point is overblown. And who are the Sox allegedly trading him to and for what?

 

I think many feel like to get to a point where you have to just settle on the best offer, no matter how bad it seems to be.

 

It did not have to be JD, but getting under the tax line, so we'd have better draft picks and more bonus pool money, seemed like enough of a "return on trade" for JD, by itself. Anything else we got back could be viewed as gravy.

 

If the Sale trade rumor is 100% true, that is an unforgivable mistake. I'd have called for Bloom to be fired on the spot, if I knew then, what we seem to know, now. I don't care, if the return was Brasier's twin.

[notin]

It wasn’t a big deal, and it wouldn’t have made any difference for this year, or next. Fire sale talk was being discussed on here, before the 2022 season even started.

 

Fans throw around fire sale talk if the team is on pace to win 88 games…

[Old Red]

That .180 SS, is a great fielder. The shaky defender is in LA right now.

 

Plus that 180 SS has four more years on his contract.

[moonslav59]

Agree 100% that trading Sale would not have hurt the here, and now. Disagree 100% that everyone that everyone would have viewed it as giving up. I certainly wouldn’t have, and it’s not like he was making any big contributions anyway when he was able to pitch, and really hadn’t since the 2018 season. I don’t know what they would have done with the money saved, but trading Sale to me would have been a win, win for the Red Sox. JH is certainly not blameless in the downfall of the Red Sox, and plenty of fans have, and will hold him accountable when ever he shows his face.

 

Okay, maybe not "giving up," (poor choice of words by me,) but certainly not helping improve the chances on the here and now. The trade was for prospects and the "future," or "suspects as you like to call them.