When should Bloom be fired?

[Hugh2]

Roman Anthony is already in AA. I think the org is planning on him being in RF at some point by late in 2025.

 

I agree. So if you expect to compete next year you don't trade Dugo and hope Anthony is his replacement. Still Masa may be even worse in the outfield by then, Duran could turn back into a Pumpkin and Rafaela may never hit. The outfield is THIN.

 

Our outfield depth is similar to our starting pitching depth. Some great options for the BOTRS and the bullpen but not much high-end talent at the MLB level.

 

Unless we are talking about signing Teoscar Hernandez or Cody Bellinger, we really have no business trading Dugo/Ref/Abreu/Duran.

[mvp 78]

I agree. So if you expect to compete next year you don't trade Dugo and hope Anthony is his replacement. Still Masa may be even worse in the outfield by then, Duran could turn back into a Pumpkin and Rafaela may never hit. The outfield is THIN.

 

Our outfield depth is similar to our starting pitching depth. Some great options for the BOTRS and the bullpen but not much high-end talent at the MLB level.

 

Unless we are talking about signing Teoscar Hernandez or Cody Bellinger, we really have no business trading Dugo/Ref/Abreu/Duran.

 

Rob Refsnyder is a replacement level player. If he left, the team wouldn't notice. His numbers from 2022 were fool's gold.

[Bellhorn04]

Extend Dugo and then trade him.

 

Consider it done!

[moonslav59]

Fair, but if you're trading away that talent and you don't have much to replace it then you're effectively already giving up on the 2024 season.

 

No thank you,

 

I'm not for dumping an OF'er. I'm for getting equal or better ML value back, preferably at a position of higher need, which might include a RH'd OF bat who can play plus D.

 

I am not close to giving up on 2024, but until I see us spend big, I'm looking for ways we can improve in areas of higher need than OF: TO GET BETTER.

[Hugh2]

Rob Refsnyder is a replacement level player. If he left, the team wouldn't notice. His numbers from 2022 were fool's gold.

 

In no permutation of my future projections is Ref a starter. He doesn't move any needles, he's a nice bench bat.

[moonslav59]

Rob Refsnyder is a replacement level player. If he left, the team wouldn't notice. His numbers from 2022 were fool's gold.

 

I'm not against trading Ref, but we do have a clear need for a RH'd bat that can play OF.

 

FYI. He has been the best Sox hitter vs RHPs from 2022-2023 (over 200 PAs v L.)

 

In MLB, there are 190 batters with 200+ PAs vs LHPs:

 

20 Refsnyder .898

44. Turner .843 will likely be gone))

88. Devers .782

169. Dugo .661

 

Ref is NOT replacement level v L.

 

Sox players with 30+ PAs vs L in the last 2 years:

 

1.048 McGuire (reverse split and just 36 PAs)

.898 Ref

.863 Reyes (45)

(Duvall .817 in 76)

.797 Story (122)

.782 Devers

.748 Yoshida

.502 Wong (also with reverse splits)

Edited September 14, 2023 by moonslav59

[Dipre]

I'm not against trading Ref, but we do have a clear need for a RH'd bat that can play OF.

 

FYI. He has been the best Sox hitter vs RHPs from 2022-2023 (over 200 PAs v L.)

 

In MLB, there are 190 batters with 200+ PAs vs LHPs:

 

20 Refsnyder .898

44. Turner .843 will likely be gone))

88. Devers .782

169. Dugo .661

 

Ref is NOT replacement level v L.

 

He's slightly above replacement level overall. The point about "replacement" in that sentence is that his skillset can be easily replaced.

[Hugh2]

I'm not against trading Ref, but we do have a clear need for a RH'd bat that can play OF.

 

FYI. He has been the best Sox hitter vs RHPs from 2022-2023 (over 200 PAs v L.)

 

In MLB, there are 190 batters with 200+ PAs vs LHPs:

 

20 Refsnyder .898

44. Turner .843 will likely be gone))

88. Devers .782

169. Dugo .661

 

Ref is NOT replacement level v L.

 

Not when he's used right. He's a nice bench bat. Outfield is thin and what upgrades exist?

 

Hey we could trade our prospect capital for an outfielder when we need pitchers I suppose.

[Duran Is The Man]

If Bloom is still here, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to expect a change in course. So: no way they'll sign any big money free agent pitchers and no way they'll trade any top prospects for young arms.

 

There will be additions to the pitching staff -- like a Flaherty on a one-year/$10 mil showcase contract. But just wait til we get those injured guys back!

 

Might as well accept this: if the Sox keep Bloom, that means they are committing to him, and seeing through his vision.

 

it's all part of Bloom's 15 year plan. you'll see.

[redsoxrules]

He will probably get one more year and if it's the same result as this year then he's a goner.

 

He hasn't really done much to be honest.

People talk about 2021 being close to the world series. The funny thing is a lot of those players were still from DD.

 

He hasn't much since.

He's missed on his long term signings. Story, Yoshida and yes I'm adding Devers in there as they will probably looking to unload him in a few years.

 

I'll give him credit for Chris Martin and Turner. I don't like the Jansen signing simply because he did 2 year. 1 would have been ideal and then get Hader in the off season.

Jansen can't pitch back to back games. His metrics are garbage this year on consecutive games. Imagine getting in the playoffs with a closer who's ineffective in back to back games.

 

And who can forget the Bradley debacle, kike hernandez and Kluber. He's had misses than hits.

[Dipre]

He will probably get one more year and if it's the same result as this year then he's a goner.

 

He hasn't really done much to be honest.

People talk about 2021 being close to the world series. The funny thing is a lot of those players were still from DD.

 

He hasn't much since.

He's missed on his long term signings. Story, Yoshida and yes I'm adding Devers in there as they will probably looking to unload him in a few years.

 

I'll give him credit for Chris Martin and Turner. I don't like the Jansen signing simply because he did 2 year. 1 would have been ideal and then get Hader in the off season.

Jansen can't pitch back to back games. His metrics are garbage this year on consecutive games. Imagine getting in the playoffs with a closer who's ineffective in back to back games.

 

And who can forget the Bradley debacle, kike hernandez and Kluber. He's had misses than hits.

 

That's a lot of negative assumptions. Might I suggest a session of Paw Patrol? Watching that with my kids always make me happy, because those puppies are adorable.

 

Joking aside, it pissed people off, but the truth is, this team is well positioned to contend *if* the right acquisitions are made. This offseason is his litmus test. If the team doesn't succeed, he's toast.

[Dipre]

it's all part of Bloom's 15 year plan. you'll see.

 

Very informative.

[moonslav59]

That's a lot of negative assumptions. Might I suggest a session of Paw Patrol? Watching that with my kids always make me happy, because those puppies are adorable.

 

Joking aside, it pissed people off, but the truth is, this team is well positioned to contend *if* the right acquisitions are made. This offseason is his litmus test. If the team doesn't succeed, he's toast.

 

If they cut salary (see how I used "if,") he'd still be canned, if we don't succeeed?

[Bellhorn04]

He's slightly above replacement level overall. The point about "replacement" in that sentence is that his skillset can be easily replaced.

 

Reffy is adequate and cheap.

[moonslav59]

He's slightly above replacement level overall. The point about "replacement" in that sentence is that his skillset can be easily replaced.

 

If he was used exclusively vs LHPs and rarely was forced to play other times, he'd have numbers that beat replacement level players to death, but the limited PAs makes taking up a whole roster space questionable.

 

Until we show we have 3-4 guys that can hit LHPs, well, I'm keeping him around.

[Dipre]

Reffy is adequate and cheap.

 

If he was used exclusively vs LHPs and rarely was forced to play other times, he'd have numbers that beat replacement level players to death, but the limited PAs makes taking up a whole roster space questionable.

 

Until we show we have 3-4 guys that can hit LHPs, well, I'm keeping him around.

 

It's a problem of context. If he was a lefty hitting against righties, he'd hold a lot more cumulative value, but unfortunately, there aren't as many PA's around against lefties. Them's the breaks.

[Hugh2]

He will probably get one more year and if it's the same result as this year then he's a goner.

 

He hasn't really done much to be honest.

People talk about 2021 being close to the world series. The funny thing is a lot of those players were still from DD.

 

He hasn't much since.

He's missed on his long term signings. Story, Yoshida and yes I'm adding Devers in there as they will probably looking to unload him in a few years.

 

I'll give him credit for Chris Martin and Turner. I don't like the Jansen signing simply because he did 2 year. 1 would have been ideal and then get Hader in the off season.

Jansen can't pitch back to back games. His metrics are garbage this year on consecutive games. Imagine getting in the playoffs with a closer who's ineffective in back to back games.

 

And who can forget the Bradley debacle, kike hernandez and Kluber. He's had misses than hits.

 

If you give DD credit for 2021, then don't you have to give him credit for 2020/2022 as well? which makes the narrative that he built a team heading for the dumps more believable.

[Dipre]

If you give DD credit for 2021, then don't you have to give him credit for 2020/2022 as well? which makes the narrative that he built a team heading for the dumps more believable.

 

...but that would distract from the narrative and help establish a more nuanced analysis. That's not what we do around here.

[moonslav59]

It's a problem of context. If he was a lefty hitting against righties, he'd hold a lot more cumulative value, but unfortunately, there aren't as many PA's around against lefties. Them's the breaks.

 

I get that, but we have so many very weak hitters vs LHPs, especially in the OF. I'm not convinced Duran can hit lefties, yet, and Dugo has already proven he cannot.

 

Rafaela and Abreu are unproven, and Yoshi should be the DH. That creates a space for Ref, but I'm not sure replacing him is a good idea.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ref's not going anywhere. They re-upped him midseason because he's the perfect guy to fill out a roster: really cheap and really useful with at least one specialty -- hitting lefties -- and willing to platoon/pinch-hit/play some OF and be a big leaguer.

[mvp 78]

I'm not against trading Ref, but we do have a clear need for a RH'd bat that can play OF.

 

FYI. He has been the best Sox hitter vs RHPs from 2022-2023 (over 200 PAs v L.)

 

In MLB, there are 190 batters with 200+ PAs vs LHPs:

 

20 Refsnyder .898

44. Turner .843 will likely be gone))

88. Devers .782

169. Dugo .661

 

Ref is NOT replacement level v L.

 

Sox players with 30+ PAs vs L in the last 2 years:

 

1.048 McGuire (reverse split and just 36 PAs)

.898 Ref

.863 Reyes (45)

(Duvall .817 in 76)

.797 Story (122)

.782 Devers

.748 Yoshida

.502 Wong (also with reverse splits)

 

Good thing Reyes can play the OF. Seems like they don't need Refsnyder then.

[mvp 78]

it's all part of Bloom's 15 year plan. you'll see.

 

"You know who we have and you know there’s more coming. You know it’s not always linear. It’s not always easy. We’ve taken a couple of haymakers. You know what? We’re probably gonna take a couple more. This is baseball. It’s not supposed to be easy. But I want to be clear. We’re going to do this. It’s going to be awesome."

[mvp 78]

That's a lot of negative assumptions. Might I suggest a session of Paw Patrol? Watching that with my kids always make me happy, because those puppies are adorable.

 

Joking aside, it pissed people off, but the truth is, this team is well positioned to contend *if* the right acquisitions are made. This offseason is his litmus test. If the team doesn't succeed, he's toast.

 

No job is too big, no pup is too small. Rubble on the double.

[moonslav59]

Good thing Reyes can play the OF. Seems like they don't need Refsnyder then.

 

I'm fine with that idea, assuming Urias and Story are healthy all year.

[mvp 78]

It's a problem of context. If he was a lefty hitting against righties, he'd hold a lot more cumulative value, but unfortunately, there aren't as many PA's around against lefties. Them's the breaks.

 

If we just need a weak side platoon bat to play corner OF, just throw Dalbec (career 853 OPS vs LHP) in LF. They've already started to transition him to the OF in AAA.

[Dipre]

If we just need a weak side platoon bat to play corner OF, just throw Dalbec (career 853 OPS vs LHP) in LF. They've already started to transition him to the OF in AAA.

 

I saw that. Makes sense to me.

[mvp 78]

Ref's not going anywhere. They re-upped him midseason because he's the perfect guy to fill out a roster: really cheap and really useful with at least one specialty -- hitting lefties -- and willing to platoon/pinch-hit/play some OF and be a big leaguer.

 

I'd rather have Yu Chang as an IF defensive replacement than Ref sitting on the bench.

[mvp 78]

I'm fine with that idea, assuming Urias and Story are healthy all year.

 

Yorke will be chilling in AAA. If he hits, he's just an Uber ride away if needed for Urias. I don't know what to say about Story.

[sk7326]

If Bloom is still here, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to expect a change in course. So: no way they'll sign any big money free agent pitchers and no way they'll trade any top prospects for young arms.

 

There will be additions to the pitching staff -- like a Flaherty on a one-year/$10 mil showcase contract. But just wait til we get those injured guys back!

 

Might as well accept this: if the Sox keep Bloom, that means they are committing to him, and seeing through his vision.

 

I think this gets the causation backwards. I mean, Bloom spent a LOT of money on a closer last year - which seems very out of character for a Tampa guy. Ownership has clearly felt burned by the Price and Sale contracts - but never going to the well ever again ever is not answer either.

 

The lack of organizational attention to pitching and defense has been wild - that was the entire Tampa Bay oeuvre!

[Old Red]

"You know who we have and you know there’s more coming. You know it’s not always linear. It’s not always easy. We’ve taken a couple of haymakers. You know what? We’re probably gonna take a couple more. This is baseball. It’s not supposed to be easy. But I want to be clear. We’re going to do this. It’s going to be awesome."

 

When Bloom, and Dugy had a meeting out on the field after a game a few weeks ago was he making the same promise to him that he gave to Kike last year that the ball club will be better next year?