Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

What worries me is that the committee thing has a lot to do with the problems of the Bloom era - the indecision and lack of aggressiveness. And maybe Bloom was just the fall guy for those problems. And maybe they're still going on...

 

I'm worried, man!

 

I think the big problem might be the assumption the indecision is solely with the Red Sox.

 

Maybe the slow off-season has returned? The Sox aren’t even remotely the least active team so far. And only 14 of MLBTRs top 50 have signed. The free agent players themselves are just as likely to be the source of the indecision.

 

Many teams, like the Cubs, Brewers and Jays, haven’t made a single move yet this off-season that was even worth trying to recall.

 

It’s slow league-wide. No need to look for the Conspiracy Theory…

[notin]

Also Wakefield had a sort of automatically renewing one-year contract with the Sox in his latter years, as I recall.

 

I want to say Dan Quisenberry had a similar deal with KC…

[notin]

Didn't you just answer your own question? The angry masses needed a sacrifice.

 

No. They want one NOW. Why fire the guy when he was perfect at attracting blame, something you’re committed would certainly want as it would allow them to engage in sinister acts under cover of the night…

[moonslav59]

What worries me is that the committee thing has a lot to do with the problems of the Bloom era - the indecision and lack of aggressiveness. And maybe Bloom was just the fall guy for those problems. And maybe they're still going on...

 

I'm worried, man!

 

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am, too. I'm actually expecting us to miss out on Yamo and Monty, and maybe Imanaga, too. I think our chances are better than you and others seem to think, but my hopes are not based in any facts, except maybe these...

 

We did just extend Devers to the 12th biggest contract in MLB history.

We apparently blew everybody away on a guy we have always wanted: Yoshida.

The Story signing was not really chump change.

We did offer Eflin the same as anyone else.

We did offer Nate more than Texas, but bumbled that by spending elsewhere, before he came back to jus, hat in hand.

 

BTW, it appears Nate wanted to play for the "losing" team, and if anyone knew the Sox, it was him.

 

I know, using examples of where we botched things up seems counter to my point, but if it's about the money, there are 5 examples since March 2022, where we have show we are moving away from the period that began after the extensions to Bogey & Sale and Nate trade & extension- Spring '19 to Spring '22. That was a three year stretch of a near total reluctance to spend big.

 

I'm hoping things have changed and we continue to make some serious investments in our 26 man roster, but again, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the big problem might be the assumption the indecision is solely with the Red Sox.

 

Maybe the slow off-season has returned? The Sox aren’t even remotely the least active team so far. And only 14 of MLBTRs top 50 have signed. The free agent players themselves are just as likely to be the source of the indecision.

 

Many teams, like the Cubs, Brewers and Jays, haven’t made a single move yet this off-season that was even worth trying to recall.

 

It’s slow league-wide. No need to look for the Conspiracy Theory…

 

Granted but many of the starting pitchers we talked about are off the board:

 

Nola

Gray

E-Rod

Lugo

Wacha

 

And frankly I thought the Sox were one of the most motivated, if not desperate, teams going into this offseason.

 

I'm paranoid and I'm not doing much to hide it...

[Bellhorn04]

No. They want one NOW. Why fire the guy when he was perfect at attracting blame, something you’re committed would certainly want as it would allow them to engage in sinister acts under cover of the night…

 

I wouldn't put it past Henry to fire Breslow after one year, either...

[notin]

The present value of his contract has been calculated as $435 to $460 mill ($460 is the number they're using for tax AAV). That's less than he was projected to get in a straightforward deal.

 

Of course I realize that some folks think present value doesn't mean much...

 

Over the next 25 years, Ohtani will make more money than any player in MLB history. I don’t think he supports any “clearly not about the money” argument…

[Randy Red Sox]

I think the big problem might be the assumption the indecision is solely with the Red Sox.

 

Maybe the slow off-season has returned? The Sox aren’t even remotely the least active team so far. And only 14 of MLBTRs top 50 have signed. The free agent players themselves are just as likely to be the source of the indecision.

 

Many teams, like the Cubs, Brewers and Jays, haven’t made a single move yet this off-season that was even worth trying to recall.

 

It’s slow league-wide. No need to look for the Conspiracy Theory…

 

I have long stated that the MLB FA system is terrible. Every other Major League sport FA period goes fast and furious with most of the big signings taking place in the 1st 2 days of FA. It is obvious that neither Montgomery or Snell are going to be signed till after Yamamoto makes his decision.

[Old Red]

Exactly. In one breathe he says we should not overpay free agents and trade suspects, instead, then acts upset the Royals are overpaying for third tier free agents, instead of us.

 

Those three are all Bloom type signings, hell, two were Bloom signings!

Who’s upset? It’s certainly not me. I’ve been saying right along I don’t want any of these overhyped, and most likely overpriced free agents signed, and I want trades to be made. I was stating a fact that the mighty Royals had outspent the Red Sox at this point, and that was a surprise. I don’t know where you got the upset theory, but you always see something that isn’t there, and run with it.

[moonslav59]

Also Wakefield had a sort of automatically renewing one-year contract with the Sox in his latter years, as I recall.

 

Yes, and he was his own agent. He was underpaid for many years.

[Bellhorn04]

Over the next 25 years, Ohtani will make more money than any player in MLB history. I don’t think he supports any “clearly not about the money” argument…

 

Right on cue:

 

Balelo described Ohtani’s decision as “the most incredible act of unselfishness and willingness to win that I’ve ever experienced in my life, or ever will. He did not care at all about the present value inflation. And you know what, neither did I. He should be praised for this. He did not want to handcuff a team with his salary. He said, ’How can I contribute to a team and allow them to stay competitive?’ So he took the most unselfish approach possible and deferred everything.”

[notin]

I wouldn't put it past Henry to fire Breslow after one year, either...

 

Henry didn’t sound like he used to but his firing history is a far cry from being Steinbrenneresque…

[notin]

Right on cue:

 

Balelo described Ohtani’s decision as “the most incredible act of unselfishness and willingness to win that I’ve ever experienced in my life, or ever will. He did not care at all about the present value inflation. And you know what, neither did I. He should be praised for this. He did not want to handcuff a team with his salary. He said, ’How can I contribute to a team and allow them to stay competitive?’ So he took the most unselfish approach possible and deferred everything.”

 

 

What a f***ing sad statement.

 

So he is selfless because he spread his three quarters of a billion dollars out over 25 years instead of demanding it all in ten?

 

Have we reached the point where that is considered selflessness?!?!

 

Will he also be returning 50% of his salary for years he can’t pitch? THAT would be selfless…

[Randy Red Sox]

Granted but many of the starting pitchers we talked about are off the board:

 

Nola

Gray

E-Rod

Lugo

Wacha

 

And frankly I thought the Sox were one of the most motivated, if not desperate, teams going into this offseason.

 

I'm paranoid and I'm not doing much to hide it...

 

that is true. Sox need 2 frontline starters to truly contend not just one. I could never understand why they didn't keep Wacha after the year he had where he was arguably our best SP and comes on a reasonable contract. Hey maybe they can bring back Kluber on a cheap deal.

[Bellhorn04]

Henry didn’t sound like he used to but his firing history is a far cry from being Steinbrenneresque…

 

George Steinbrenneresque, that is. Cashman seems to have a virtual lifetime deal from Hal...

[moonslav59]

Granted but many of the starting pitchers we talked about are off the board:

 

Nola

Gray

E-Rod

Lugo

Wacha

 

And frankly I thought the Sox were one of the most motivated, if not desperate, teams going into this offseason.

 

I'm paranoid and I'm not doing much to hide it...

 

I think Lugo, Wacha and maybe ERod were sort of fall-back options. It's still concerning they are off the boards, if and when we end up missing out on Yamo, Snell and Monty.

 

Maybe we have always viewed Imanaga (or Stroman) as out top fall-back guy, so the plan B is still alive.

 

I'm very concerned, too, bell.

[Bellhorn04]

What a f***ing sad statement.

 

So he is selfless because he spread his three quarters of a billion dollars out over 25 years instead of demanding it all in ten?

 

Have we reached the point where that is considered selflessness?!?!

 

It's all relative. Ohtani getting paid a mint was a given. He'd be called a fool if he wasn't.

[moonslav59]

Who is left (of Sox interest)?

 

Tier 1:

Yamamoto

Trade candidates

 

Tier 2:

Snell

Monty

Kershaw to LAD or retire?)

Trade candidates

 

Tier 3:

Imanaga (Tier 2?) -hopefully as our second best SP added

Stroman - hopefully as our second best pitcher added. (Imanaga + Stroman might work, but I'd be bummed.)

Giolito

Clevinger

Ryu

Duvall (OF)

Gurriel (OF)

Garver (C/DH)

 

Tier 4:

Montas- acceptable, only if Yamo is our first SP signing

Paxton - acceptable, only if Yamo is our first SP signing

Merrifield (2B)

A Rosario (SS/2B)

Manaea

Lorenzen

Turner (DH/1B)

[Hugh2]

Marino Pepen reporting that the Red Sox have an offer on the table for Yamamoto worth over $300 million.

[notin]

It's all relative. Ohtani getting paid a mint was a given. He'd be called a fool if he wasn't.

 

Not calling Ohtani a fool.

 

I’m calling your source a fool for trying to pawn Ohtani off as sacrificial because of his willingness to try and get by on a scant $40mill per year, all for the betterment of the team.

 

It’s not hard to see what happened. Ohtani wanted to be the highest paid player ever, possibly for reasons related to prestige and respect more so than flat out greed. And he got it…

[Bellhorn04]

Marino Pepen reporting that the Red Sox have an offer on the table for Yamamoto worth over $300 million.

 

That's encouraging, though sadly it may not be enough.

[Bellhorn04]

Not calling Ohtani a fool.

 

I’m calling your source a fool for trying to pawn Ohtani off as sacrificial because of his willingness to try and get by on a scant $40mill per year, all for the betterment of the team.

 

It’s not hard to see what happened. Ohtani wanted to be the highest paid player ever, possibly for reasons related to prestige and respect more so than flat out greed. And he got it…

 

He's only getting paid $2 million a year by the Dodgers for the next 10 years.

 

You have to admit that's different, if nothing else...

 

The source is his agent BTW. I'm not saying it's not a tad hyperbolic.

[notin]

That's encouraging, though sadly it may not be enough.

 

It won’t, but it does rank up there as being “largest unsubstantiated free agent offer in Red Sox history”.

[notin]

He's only getting paid $2 million a year by the Dodgers for the next 10 years.

 

You have to admit that's different, if nothing else...

 

The source is his agent BTW.

 

It’s different, but let’s not pretend his final numbers for the total value of that contract were in the $50-80mill range. He clearly had winning on his priority list, and it was just as clearly not in the top spot…

[moonslav59]

Marino Pepen reporting that the Red Sox have an offer on the table for Yamamoto worth over $300 million.

 

I wonder, if it's a "final offer."

[Bellhorn04]

It won’t, but it does rank up there as being “largest unsubstantiated free agent offer in Red Sox history”.

 

Just another Interest Kings leak?

[notin]

Just another Interest Kings leak?

 

It started out as a tie in to Betts, but at the last second I saw the obvious difference - Betts was not a free agent…

[notin]

I wonder, if it's a "final offer."

 

It’s not. Not for Yamamoto anyway. And he’s the only one where it matters…

[moonslav59]

It’s not. Not for Yamamoto anyway. And he’s the only one where it matters…

 

You think it gets to $340-350M?

 

I doubt the Sox go that far. They could probably get Monty and Imanaga (maybe even a 2Bman, too) for the same money, but not AAV.

[notin]

You think it gets to $340-350M?

 

I doubt the Sox go that far. They could probably get Monty and Imanaga (maybe even a 2Bman, too) for the same money, but not AAV.

 

I think Cohen isn’t letting him get away. He might not have had Yamamoto on his radar when the Mets unloaded Scherzer and Verlander last deadline, but it certainly is some fortunate happenstance right now…