Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

Mets signed Joey Wendle, one of the best defensive middle infielders in MLB, to a 1 year $2mill deal…

 

His OPS+ has been heading south via an express route:

 

118 in 2020 (184 PAs)

108 in 2021 (501)

85 in 2022 (371)

50 in 2023 (318)

 

293 batters had 300+ PAs in 2023:

293. Nick Allen .550

292. Joey Wendle .554

 

2022-2023 had 241 batters with 650 PAs.

Only 4 batters had more PAs and a worse OPS (.610.)

 

I'm all for improving the D, but not at that hit to the O.

[notin]

His OPS+ has been heading south via an express route:

 

118 in 2020 (184 PAs)

108 in 2021 (501)

85 in 2022 (371)

50 in 2023 (318)

 

293 batters had 300+ PAs in 2023:

293. Nick Allen .550

292. Joey Wendle .554

 

2022-2023 had 241 batters with 650 PAs.

Only 4 batters had more PAs and a worse OPS (.610.)

 

I'm all for improving the D, but not at that hit to the O.

 

 

I do think a lot of Sox fans hate defense. Alex Verdugo was nominated for a Gold Glove, and that’s why they want him gone and replaced with a right-handed bat that can’t field…

[Old Red]

I do think a lot of Sox fans hate defense. Alex Verdugo was nominated for a Gold Glove, and that’s why they want him gone and replaced with a right-handed bat that can’t field…

 

I don’t know who doesn’t like defense, but it’s just worked out that way that the Red Sox haven’t been very good at it the last few years. Raffy, Casas, and Yoshida are bats, and no gloves, and Kike was a disaster at SS. I don’t know anyone who wants Dugy gone, because he was nominated for a Gold Glove. He’s on his last year of his contract, and his bat went to sleep the 2nd half of last year not to mention he was benched a couple of times. It’s always good if a team has guys who can hit, and field, but at the moment the Red Sox don’t have many of them. Of course you was one of the few who liked the JBJ trade, and how did that work out?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I do think a lot of Sox fans hate defense. Alex Verdugo was nominated for a Gold Glove, and that’s why they want him gone and replaced with a right-handed bat that can’t field…

 

If I typed that, there would be at least three posters who would hammer away at the phrase "a lot"...

 

... but I value defense a lot more than most. When discussing good baseball, it's the asset most often used in conjunction with pitching -- because they're so connected (compared to, say, pitching and baserunning, or pitching and moaning).

 

Pitching and defense are so co-dependent that it makes Breslow's first year that much more difficult; he knows he needs better D or it won't matter how many kajillions he spends on arms.

 

btw: when I typed the word co-dependent to see if it depended on a hyphen, the first site that came up said Help Is Available, with an 800 number. I forwarded it to Brez.

[Bellhorn04]

I do think a lot of Sox fans hate defense. Alex Verdugo was nominated for a Gold Glove, and that’s why they want him gone and replaced with a right-handed bat that can’t field…

 

Sox fans don't hate defense. They just think it would nice to have a player or two who can both hit and field. Too bad the front office hasn't been able to get or keep players like that. Maybe John Henry didn't care enough about defense in his dealings with Betts.

 

If Verdugo's offense didn't fall apart again last year people would like him more. Plus, last year of contract, attitude issues and all that.

[Old Red]

Sox fans don't hate defense. They just think it would nice to have a player or two who can both hit and field. Too bad the front office hasn't been able to get or keep players like that. Maybe John Henry didn't care enough about defense in his dealings with Betts.

 

If Verdugo's offense didn't fall apart again last year people would like him more. Plus, last year of contract, attitude issues and all that.

 

I expect Dugy to have a good full year this year with FA on the horizon. Getting rid of him, because he was nominated for a Gold Glove would be the last reason to get rid of him, and the most ridiculous.

[notin]

Sox fans don't hate defense. They just think it would nice to have a player or two who can both hit and field. Too bad the front office hasn't been able to get or keep players like that. Maybe John Henry didn't care enough about defense in his dealings with Betts.

 

If Verdugo's offense didn't fall apart again last year people would like him more. Plus, last year of contract, attitude issues and all that.

 

And when you can’t get a player who can do both hit and field, which individual skill do you prefer?

[Old Red]

And when you can’t get a player who can do both hit and field, which individual skill do you prefer?

 

Pitching is #1.

[Old Red]

And when you can’t get a player who can do both hit and field, which individual skill do you prefer?

 

Why did the Red Sox give Raffy $300M+? They already knew he wasn’t a good 3B.

[mvp 78]

Scratch that. Apparently Burnes hired Boras last March and B-R.com never updated, which is a rarity for them…

 

That's one of the reasons they are second tier.

[mvp 78]

His OPS+ has been heading south via an express route:

 

118 in 2020 (184 PAs)

108 in 2021 (501)

85 in 2022 (371)

50 in 2023 (318)

 

293 batters had 300+ PAs in 2023:

293. Nick Allen .550

292. Joey Wendle .554

 

2022-2023 had 241 batters with 650 PAs.

Only 4 batters had more PAs and a worse OPS (.610.)

 

I'm all for improving the D, but not at that hit to the O.

 

It's only 2M for a guy who is going to be a backup defensive replacement.

[mvp 78]

I expect Dugy to have a good full year this year with FA on the horizon. Getting rid of him, because he was nominated for a Gold Glove would be the last reason to get rid of him, and the most ridiculous.

 

Yes, because his game really shined after the ASB this season when the spotlight was on him and he was potentially going to be tradebait. That's a guy who is certain to have a career year trying to reach for a contract.

[Bellhorn04]

And when you can’t get a player who can do both hit and field, which individual skill do you prefer?

 

Hitting is more important, but when most of your fielders stink, that's obviously a serious problem too.

 

The front office is supposed to know things like this. I'm putting all the blame on them. What we think doesn't matter much.

[moonslav59]

It's only 2M for a guy who is going to be a backup defensive replacement.

 

I don't want him on our 26.

[notin]

Pitching is #1.

 

Although it doesn’t do much when you’re looking for a shortstop…

[mvp 78]

Sox fans don't hate defense. They just think it would nice to have a player or two who can both hit and field. Too bad the front office hasn't been able to get or keep players like that. Maybe John Henry didn't care enough about defense in his dealings with Betts.

 

If Verdugo's offense didn't fall apart again last year people would like him more. Plus, last year of contract, attitude issues and all that.

 

I think Sox fans like JBJ's defense, but they didn't like when his bat would become an absolute black hole. When he would OPS 500 for two months, it was really rough to watch.

[Old Red]

Although it doesn’t do much when you’re looking for a shortstop…

 

I didn’t intend it too.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Sox fans like JBJ's defense, but they didn't like when his bat would become an absolute black hole. When he would OPS 500 for two months, it was really rough to watch.

 

And a negative WAR tells the tale.

[notin]

Hitting is more important, but when most of your fielders stink, that's obviously a serious problem too.

 

The front office is supposed to know things like this. I'm putting all the blame on them. What we think doesn't matter much.

 

True. I doubt they even know this individual Red Sox forum exists.

 

I do disagree hitting is straight up more important than fielding. I think at a minimum it’s situational depending on position.

 

I also think our opinions of Verdugo’s attitude might be overblown or based on incomplete information…

[Old Red]

Hitting is more important, but when most of your fielders stink, that's obviously a serious problem too.

 

The front office is supposed to know things like this. I'm putting all the blame on them. What we think doesn't matter much.

 

It would be nice if we had a Mikey Lowell, or a Beltran type to play 3B, but we don’t.

[Old Red]

True. I doubt they even know this individual Red Sox forum exists.

 

I do disagree hitting is straight up more important than fielding. I think at a minimum it’s situational depending on position.

 

I also think our opinions of Verdugo’s attitude might be overblown or based on incomplete information…

 

Cora doesn’t bench many guys.

[Bellhorn04]

True. I doubt they even know this individual Red Sox forum exists.

 

I do disagree hitting is straight up more important than fielding. I think at a minimum it’s situational depending on position.

 

Jeter always posted a pretty good WAR. That supports my point. Compare him to Andrelton Simmons and see.

[notin]

I think Sox fans like JBJ's defense, but they didn't like when his bat would become an absolute black hole. When he would OPS 500 for two months, it was really rough to watch.

 

JBJ’s defense became a much bigger deal when he dropped that toe tap and started to hit.

 

I don’t mind watching my #9 hitter strike out or hit weak grounders nearly as much as I mind my “up the middle” fail to get to seemingly routine or makable plays, or as much as I mind watching innings extended by a glut of errors…

[notin]

Cora doesn’t bench many guys.

 

Was Verdugo benched for his attitude?

[Bellhorn04]

It would be nice if we had a Mikey Lowell, or a Beltran type to play 3B, but we don’t.

 

Devers's defense can be lived with IMO. But when the rest of the infield are also lousy it's a real cluster.

[mvp 78]

Hitting is more important, but when most of your fielders stink, that's obviously a serious problem too.

 

The front office is supposed to know things like this. I'm putting all the blame on them. What we think doesn't matter much.

 

If they are going to switch to a defensive first team, they'd have to cull the 26 man roster.

[mvp 78]

Devers's defense can be lived with IMO. But when the rest of the infield are also lousy it's a real cluster.

 

I wonder if it will look better next to Story in '24?

[Old Red]

Was Verdugo benched for his attitude?

 

I believe once was for not running hard enough, and the other was showing up late. Call it what you want, but either way he was benched twice.

[notin]

Cora doesn’t bench many guys.

 

Was Verdugo benched for his attitude?

[mvp 78]

Was Verdugo benched for his attitude?

 

Yes sir. Showed up late to games. Wasn't getting work in.