Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[cp176]

That all seems a bit presumptuous to me.

 

Hell, even Nimrod was willing to have his contract reduced to join the Red Sox.

 

I think that a majority of them want to go where they will have a chance to win.

[notin]

That all seems a bit presumptuous to me.

 

Hell, even Nimrod was willing to have his contract reduced to join the Red Sox.

 

There are some less interested in money. But largely it’s the driving force. The players didn’t unionize and the owners don’t hold periodic lockouts to get more teams winning.

 

And also, at the end of the day, it’s also the players’ job…

[notin]

I think that a majority of them want to go where they will have a chance to win.

 

Three players signed with Kansas City this week, a team that won 35% of its games a year ago and have not been above .500 since the World Series team of 2015…

Edited December 16, 2023 by notin

[notin]

That all seems a bit presumptuous to me.

 

Hell, even Nimrod was willing to have his contract reduced to join the Red Sox.

 

Also ERod turned down a chance to go to the Dodgers at the deadline last year. Winning was not at the top of his list at the time…

[notin]

According to Millikan the Red Sox have had their meeting with the Yam Man. Did Brez, and Sam close the deal?

 

Nothing will be closed until after the New Year. Book it…

[Bellhorn04]

There are some less interested in money. But largely it’s the driving force. The players didn’t unionize and the owners don’t hold periodic lockouts to get more teams winning.

 

And also, at the end of the day, it’s also the players’ job…

 

There's no argument that money is the #1 factor. I just think other factors are often in play too.

 

Eflin took the same money from the Rays because that's where he wanted to go. He didn't even come back to the Sox to give them a chance to outbid.

[Bellhorn04]

Also ERod turned down a chance to go to the Dodgers at the deadline last year. Winning was not at the top of his list at the time…

 

The money there is on "family considerations".

[jad]

As Charles Barkley said: "Athletes care about three things: money, minutes, and winning. ... In that order."

[Bellhorn04]

Nothing will be closed until after the New Year. Book it…

 

Why? He's already met with all the teams, apparently. What's going to take up 2-3 more weeks?

[Bellhorn04]

As Charles Barkley said: "Athletes care about three things: money, minutes, and winning. ... In that order."

 

That's believable, the only thing that's missing is the family considerations thing. (Maybe basketball players don't care about those much.)

[notin]

The money there is on "family considerations".

 

That was more about his not making winning a top priority.

 

And really, the Royals (56-106), Tigers (78-84) and Cardinals (71-91) have all been very active in free agency.

 

Also, if winning was top priority over money, one might suspect Javier Baez would have opted out of Detroit and taken less money to go to a better team.

 

I painted with a broad brush, something I normally abhor. But I do strongly believe money is the largest factor and by a lot in free agency. In many cases, quite possibly the only factor.

 

As for myself, I care about the years more than the money. If you’re going to be a letdown, get it over with quickly…

[notin]

As Charles Barkley said: "Athletes care about three things: money, minutes, and winning. ... In that order."

 

I’m on board with that…

[notin]

That's believable, the only thing that's missing is the family considerations thing. (Maybe basketball players don't care about those much.)

 

I think it’s a very small percentage.

 

I’ve told the story of the former Cardinals RP (I think it was Rick White) who negotiated his own deal (as in no agent) with St. Louis because there was a special school in the area that he felt would benefit his son.

 

That kind of thing happens. But it’s minority…

[Bellhorn04]

That was more about his not making winning a top priority.

 

And really, the Royals (56-106), Tigers (78-84) and Cardinals (71-91) have all been very active in free agency.

 

Also, if winning was top priority over money, one might suspect Javier Baez would have opted out of Detroit and taken less money to go to a better team.

 

I painted with a broad brush, something I normally abhor. But I do strongly believe money is the largest factor and by a lot in free agency. In many cases, quite possibly the only factor.

 

As for myself, I care about the years more than the money. If you’re going to be a letdown, get it over with quickly…

 

I'd say the bigger the star, the more they get to pick and choose where they play.

 

Ohtani's deal gave the Dodgers a big break on the AAV and cash flow. And of course he got those amazing opt-out provisions revolving around who's running the team etc. It wasn't just the money for him, that should be pretty obvious.

[Old Red]

Nothing will be closed until after the New Year. Book it…

 

That means he’ll sign any day now.

[moonslav59]

If the Sox spent 100M on Renfroe, Lugo and Wacha, there’d be a line at the Tobin.

 

Exactly. In one breathe he says we should not overpay free agents and trade suspects, instead, then acts upset the Royals are overpaying for third tier free agents, instead of us.

 

Those three are all Bloom type signings, hell, two were Bloom signings!

[Bellhorn04]

I think it’s a very small percentage.

 

I’ve told the story of the former Cardinals RP (I think it was Rick White) who negotiated his own deal (as in no agent) with St. Louis because there was a special school in the area that he felt would benefit his son.

 

That kind of thing happens. But it’s minority…

 

I think you have some confirmation bias going too. You downplay the exceptions.

 

Nola is another one. He reportedly got bigger offers than the Phillies offer.

 

Plus how do we know what these guys are thinking? If there are quotes, sure. But I don't think we should make assumptions.

[moonslav59]

The thought that's really haunting me is that the Sox are being run by a big committee now, with the CBO being the interchangeable part. This theory lines up with Dombrowski's firing, because there were reports about him not playing nice with other members of the front office, even daring to exclude Sam Kennedy from baseball meetings.

 

If the big committee has decided we will "spend what it takes" to get Yamo or Monty, does it matter how the choice was made?

 

If not, Jad is right- "Meet the new boss..."

[notin]

I think you have some confirmation bias going too. You downplay the exceptions.

 

Nola is another one. He reportedly got bigger offers than the Phillies offer.

 

Plus how do we know what these guys are thinking? If there are quotes, sure. But I don't think we should make assumptions.

 

I’m doing more that making assumptions; I’m making sweeping generalizations.

 

Agree or not - money is the top priority? I’d say the evidence seems to strongly point that way.

 

Yes there are some players with different priorities on occasion. But bear in mind, roughly 20-25% of the league reached free agency each year. So yes, in that volume, there will be exceptions…

[moonslav59]

I think that a majority of them want to go where they will have a chance to win.

 

They may want to, but they almost always take the highest offer, unless it's real close.

[notin]

I'd say the bigger the star, the more they get to pick and choose where they play.

 

Ohtani's deal gave the Dodgers a big break on the AAV and cash flow. And of course he got those amazing opt-out provisions revolving around who's running the team etc. It wasn't just the money for him, that should be pretty obvious.

 

Ohtani might not be the best argument for “other priorities over money”. I can think of 700 million reasons supporting the opposite…

[moonslav59]

Why? He's already met with all the teams, apparently. What's going to take up 2-3 more weeks?

 

Possibly counter-offers.

 

I'm pretty sure some teams said, please come back to us, before you sign with someone else.

 

That being said, I think he signs by Monday night.

 

[Bellhorn04]

If the big committee has decided we will "spend what it takes" to get Yamo or Monty, does it matter how the choice was made?

 

If not, Jad is right- "Meet the new boss..."

 

What worries me is that the committee thing has a lot to do with the problems of the Bloom era - the indecision and lack of aggressiveness. And maybe Bloom was just the fall guy for those problems. And maybe they're still going on...

 

I'm worried, man!

[notin]

They may want to, but they almost always take the highest offer, unless it's real close.

 

I agree with the jad/Barkley point - playing time is more important than winning.

 

No athlete spent his entire life honing his game with the end goal of spending his career watching better players win, but from really good seats…

[notin]

What worries me is that the committee thing has a lot to do with the problems of the Bloom era - the indecision and lack of aggressiveness. And maybe Bloom was just the fall guy for those problems. And maybe they're still going on...

 

I'm worried, man!

 

If the goal was a committee, why fire Bloom? He was Nature’s Perfect Scapegoat…

[Bellhorn04]

Ohtani might not be the best argument for “other priorities over money”. I can think of 700 million reasons supporting the opposite…

 

The present value of his contract has been calculated as $435 to $460 mill ($460 is the number they're using for tax AAV). That's less than he was projected to get in a straightforward deal.

 

Of course I realize that some folks think present value doesn't mean much...

[moonslav59]

I think you have some confirmation bias going too. You downplay the exceptions.

 

Nola is another one. He reportedly got bigger offers than the Phillies offer.

 

Plus how do we know what these guys are thinking? If there are quotes, sure. But I don't think we should make assumptions.

 

Many of the exceptions extend with their teams at discount rates, before they reach free agency, and we don't count them.

 

Bogey did. Pedey did. Ortiz did it several times.

[Bellhorn04]

If the goal was a committee, why fire Bloom? He was Nature’s Perfect Scapegoat…

 

Didn't you just answer your own question? The angry masses needed a sacrifice.

[Bellhorn04]

Many of the exceptions extend with their teams at discount rates, before they reach free agency, and we don't count them.

 

Bogey did. Pedey did. Ortiz did it several times.

 

Also Wakefield had a sort of automatically renewing one-year contract with the Sox in his latter years, as I recall.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree with the jad/Barkley point - playing time is more important than winning.

 

No athlete spent his entire life honing his game with the end goal of spending his career watching better players win, but from really good seats…

 

Peter Gent said it like this in North Dallas Forty: "The team is a fiction."