Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

The Sox have enough #5's. No more room at the inn.

 

Agreed. I would even say trying to improve our #4 is not good enough, unless we also land Yamo or Snell.

[notin]

Forget about Bauer.

 

Bauer is mega-talented but very unlikely. His multi-million dollar arm is only available if you also purchase his 10 cent head…

[mvp 78]

You don't consider Bauer?

 

Hopefully, the Dodgers sign Kershaw and are happy with that.

 

That leaves NYY, NYM, BOS and a few others looking to spend to fight over Yamo and Monty.

 

The losers will then fight over Bauer, Imanaga, Stroman, ERod and Wacha/Giolito/Lugo/Montas.

 

I know Lugo has a short sample size as a SP'er, but he will not get a long deal, being 34. I'm not sure why so many never mention him. I'd much rather have him than Turnbull, Flaherty, Montas and maybe even Giolito.

 

I'd also prefer Paxton and maybe Severino over Turnbull & Flaherty.

 

 

 

 

I ignored Bauer and Clevinger, but not because of their baseball talent.

[mvp 78]

But does it change his decision to give them one?

 

Are we going to pretend the “money won’t be a factor” attitude is new? Or acknowledge that we are going to hear it whether money is a factor or not?

 

They've said in the past that it has been a factor, but it's not supposed to be a factor this offseason. If it is a factor, why the duplicity?

[mvp 78]

Walk past Turnbull. No one is married to him as an option…

 

Instead of Yamamoto, they sign ERod and Stroman? They are basically signing two mid to upper rotation guys? It's good. I don't believe it's a WS rotation at all. If that's the goal, they aren't getting there this year.

[mvp 78]

I’ll place money now Houck starts more games than any of us prefer…

 

10 starts if he's in the opening day pen. 20+ if he's in the rotation on opening day.

[moonslav59]

And we had a lot of games last year that were lost in the first few innings...

 

Our bullpen is not that bad, and will be better if Houck gets moved from rotation to pen.

 

Our pen moves from good to very good to great depending on how many of these guys are in the pen all year or nearly all year:

 

Whitlock: likely good

 

Whitlock and Houck: likely very good

 

Whitlock, Houck and one from Cutter/Pivetta: likely Great

 

All 4 in the pen is an almost certain "great"

 

8-9th inning:

Jansen

Martin

Winckowski

 

7-8 inning

Schreiber

Campbell

Bernardino

 

Long men:

Whitlock

Houck (Bernardino to AAA)

Cutter or Pivetta (Campbell or Schreiber to AAA)

 

Assuming no pitchers are on IL (LOL!)

[moonslav59]

Instead of Yamamoto, they sign ERod and Stroman? They are basically signing two mid to upper rotation guys? It's good. I don't believe it's a WS rotation at all. If that's the goal, they aren't getting there this year.

 

I might grow to like it, and maybe it's better than I think, but to me, we need an ace.

 

If we go for multiple tier 2's, I'd hope we add 3 SP'ers:

 

2 from Stroman, Imanaga, ERod, Wacha

 

plus one from Lugo, Giolito, Paxton, Severino, Montas

[mvp 78]

I might grow to like it, and maybe it's better than I think, but to me, we need an ace.

 

If we go for multiple tier 2's, I'd hope we add 3 SP'ers:

 

2 from Stroman, Imanaga, ERod, Wacha

 

plus one from Lugo, Giolito, Paxton, Severino, Montas

 

I'd be much more interested if the Sox added Montas as the #5.

 

ERod

Stroman

Bello

Sale

Montas

 

I can talk myself into that rotation for sure. Winning a WS? IDK. I agree that they probably need some sort of ace.

[mvp 78]

Montas was back to throwing 95-96 when he pitched in AAA in September after coming back.

[moonslav59]

I'd be much more interested if the Sox added Montas as the #5.

 

ERod

Stroman

Bello

Sale

Montas

 

I can talk myself into that rotation for sure. Winning a WS? IDK. I agree that they probably need some sort of ace.

 

One thing about this rotation: Cora will be able to yank anyone very early due to having 4 very capable long RP'ers:

 

Pivetta

Crawford

Houck

Whitlock

 

There would be an epic battle for the third Short RP slot:

1. Jansen

2. Martin

3. Winckowski, Campbell, Bernardino, Schreiber and Mata (no options.)

 

Kelly and Murphy in AAA

 

Chances are, Sale and or another pitcher start the season on the IL, so it might not get to frantic. Either way, it's a nice problem to have for the pen.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'd be much more interested if the Sox added Montas as the #5.

 

ERod

Stroman

Bello

Sale

Montas

 

I can talk myself into that rotation for sure. Winning a WS? IDK. I agree that they probably need some sort of ace.

 

If he's not from Japan, he'll come from a trade. I just can't see firing Bloom and hiring Breslow without making significant pitching additions; not guys like Flaherty and Giolito, who were cut or left off postseason rosters.

[moonslav59]

Montas was back to throwing 95-96 when he pitched in AAA in September after coming back.

 

Severino was at 95-97 for 19 starts in MLB, but he sucked for many of those starts.

 

I like the Montas idea. I might like Paxton better (on a 1 yr deal.)

[moonslav59]

If he's not from Japan, he'll come from a trade. I just can't see firing Bloom and hiring Breslow without making significant pitching additions; not guys like Flaherty and Giolito, who were cut or left off postseason rosters.

 

I'd be really bummed with Giolito and Flaherty.

 

2 from Imanaga, Stroman, ERod and Wacha might keep me interested.

[Old Red]

I'd be really bummed with Giolito and Flaherty.

 

2 from Imanaga, Stroman, ERod and Wacha might keep me interested.

 

The Red Sox didn’t want Wacha back last year, and didn’t want to Sign ERod 2 years ago. I was for resigning ERod 2/yrs ago, but I wouldn’t give him the same 5 yr contract now being two years older. It’s amazing to me that ERod didn’t look so good two years ago, but looks better now.

[notin]

If he's not from Japan, he'll come from a trade. I just can't see firing Bloom and hiring Breslow without making significant pitching additions; not guys like Flaherty and Giolito, who were cut or left off postseason rosters.

 

Giolito was left of postseason roster largely because Cleveland didn’t make the postseason. Flaherty pitched in the postseason…

[Dipre]

Instead of Yamamoto, they sign ERod and Stroman? They are basically signing two mid to upper rotation guys? It's good. I don't believe it's a WS rotation at all. If that's the goal, they aren't getting there this year.

 

Not even if they sign all three. Too many question marks still.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Giolito was left of postseason roster largely because Cleveland didn’t make the postseason. Flaherty pitched in the postseason…

 

Giolito was CUT by the Angels - here, let me rephrase the point for posters who live for nit-picking: they both sucked after joining new teams after the deadline.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox didn’t want Wacha back last year, and didn’t want to Sign ERod 2 years ago. I was for resigning ERod 2/yrs ago, but I wouldn’t give him the same 5 yr contract now being two years older. It’s amazing to me that ERod didn’t look so good two years ago, but looks better now.

 

The issue then was the budget. I think we wanted ERod and Wacha back, but not at those terms. (Wacha tuned out pretty cheap for 1 year, though.)

 

I'd rather get Yamo, Monty or Snell.

 

I like Imanaga and Stroman better than ERod and Wacha, but there are many teams looking to add SP'ers. We may have to settle on ERod & Wacha. ERod, Wacha and Lugo is about the min I'd be okay with.

[notin]

Giolito was CUT by the Angels - here, let me rephrase the point for posters who live for nit-picking: they both sucked after joining new teams after the deadline.

 

Yes he was. But not related to performance. The waived him in order to get his salary off the books once they realized they were not heading into the postseason and it was too late to trade his salary away, and he was ineligible for a QO.

 

That might be the type of move we see several teams make going forward…

[moonslav59]

Dodgers re-sign Heyward to $9M/1.

[Randy Red Sox]

Looks like the Cards are about to sign Sonny Gray for 3 yrs at 25 mil per. Out of our price range I guess. If the choice is either Stroman or Eros I’d rather just stay with what we have now.

[moonslav59]

Looks like the Cards are about to sign Sonny Gray for 3 yrs at 25 mil per. Out of our price range I guess. If the choice is either Stroman or Eros I’d rather just stay with what we have now.

 

2023

 

3.30 ERA ERod (134 ERA+/3.66 FIP) Last 3 yrs: 4.04/109/3.70

3.95 ERA Stroman (113 ERA+/3.58 FIP) 3 years: 3.45/122/3.60

 

 

SOX

4.24 Bello (107/4.54)

4.04 Craw (113/3.83)

5.01 Houck (91/4.43)

4.30 Sale (106/3.80)

4.04 Pivetta (113/3.96)

 

Worse as SP'ers:

Bello, Houck & Sale the same

4.51 Crawford

4.66 Pivetta

 

To me, all the "tier 2" SP'erds are better than 3-4 of our 2023 SP'ers.

The "tier 3" SP'ers are likely better than 1-2, but they would improve our pen by moving one to the pen.

[dgalehouse]

Death, taxes and fans getting nervous about a slow start to free agent signings.

[moonslav59]

Death, taxes and fans getting nervous about a slow start to free agent signings.

 

We saw maybe 5 higher quality SP'er option: Yamo, Snell, Nola, Gray and Monty. Two have been signed by teams not considered to be the one of the big 2-3 spenders, this winter.

 

There are 3 left. The chances the Sox get one has fallen.

 

"Nervous?" maybe.

[mvp 78]

Severino was at 95-97 for 19 starts in MLB, but he sucked for many of those starts.

 

I like the Montas idea. I might like Paxton better (on a 1 yr deal.)

 

Severino hasn't been relevant since '18. Montas has been better much more recently.

[mvp 78]

Death, taxes and fans getting nervous about a slow start to free agent signings.

 

First offseason with a GM who has never been GM before. We are again in uncharted territory.

 

FULL THROTTLE.

[Dipre]

Giolito was CUT by the Angels - here, let me rephrase the point for posters who live for nit-picking: they both sucked after joining new teams after the deadline.

 

He's not nitpicking. He's pointing out clear inconsistencies in your thought process. Be consistent.

[moonslav59]

Severino hasn't been relevant since '18. Montas has been better much more recently.

 

Agreed.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He's not nitpicking. He's pointing out clear inconsistencies in your thought process. Be consistent.

 

My thought processes have never been consistent -- at least, I don't think so. But it's so reassuring to have posters on a forum based entirely on discussion consistently point out the flaws of others' opinions.