Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Bellhorn04]

I hope we don't continue signing the "leftover" SP'ers.

 

That would not be Full Throttle.

[moonslav59]

That would not be Full Throttle.

 

I'm taking a wait and see approach, this winter.

 

The talk is great, but we heard talk before, and it amounted to squat.

 

I'm not projecting anyone, but this is a rough guideline to what I would be happy with (realistic or not:)

 

A)

2 from this group (pipedream):

Kershaw, Yamamoto, Gray, Montgomery, Nola, Snell, ERod and maybe Bauer

 

1 from the group in A plus one from:

Wacha, Stroman and maybe Imanaga, Giolito and Clevinger

 

C) The cheapest from group A plus 2 from group B

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

My prefs, I guess:

 

1) Yamamoto

2) Nola

3) Montgomery

4) Gray

5) Snell (downgrading for risk)

6) ERod

7) Stroman

8) Wacha

[moonslav59]

My prefs, I guess:

 

1) Yamamoto

2) Nola

3) Montgomery

4) Gray

5) Snell (downgrading for risk)

6) ERod

7) Stroman

8) Wacha

 

I see a gaps between 4 and 5 and after ERod.

 

I think we need a top 6 SP'er minimum. I'm not sure Bauer could be included.

[moonslav59]

Casas finished third in the ROY voting, so he does not earn a year of service time, and the Sox get no draft compensation.

[oldtimer]

My prefs, I guess:

 

1) Yamamoto

2) Nola

3) Montgomery

4) Gray

5) Snell (downgrading for risk)

6) ERod

7) Stroman

8) Wacha

 

Ifr some team will pick up Sales contract it would free up money to go big on at least one starter. Sort a replacement with a more reliable starter.

[moonslav59]

My order might be:

 

Ohtani is out of reach and not a possible Sox signing.

 

Tier A

1. Yamamoto

2. Gray (should be a shorter contract)

3. Montgomery

4. Nola

Tier B

5. Snell

6. ERod

7. Bauer

Tier C

8. Wacha

9. Imanaga

10. Stroman

11. Giolito

Tier D

12. Clevinger

13. Seth Lugo

 

I'm probably forgetting someone.

 

It looks like a deep year for SP'ers and we need 2-3. MAKE IT HAPPEN!

 

 

 

[jad]

Ifr some team will pick up Sales contract it would free up money to go big on at least one starter. Sort a replacement with a more reliable starter.

 

I see. Trade a player for ANOTHER player at the same position who is better. Genius! I'm sure half the teams in the league would jump at that.

[moonslav59]

I see. Trade a player for ANOTHER player at the same position who is better. Genius! I'm sure half the teams in the league would jump at that.

 

I think his idea was to trade Sale for a lesser player, but use the savings to spend more on a better SP via free agency.

[jad]

I think his idea was to trade Sale for a lesser player, but use the savings to spend more on a better SP via free agency.

 

To "go big on at least one starter ... a more reliable starter" is what he said, but yes, when we start talking trades, our rhetoric sometimes outstrips reality. It's difficult to see such hypothetical trades from the other team's perspective. Normally we argue this is something they "should" do, but then, we ourselves never ever act in accord with what our opponents or competitors swear is our best interest, (nor should we).

[notin]

To "go big on at least one starter ... a more reliable starter" is what he said, but yes, when we start talking trades, our rhetoric sometimes outstrips reality. It's difficult to see such hypothetical trades from the other team's perspective. Normally we argue this is something they "should" do, but then, we ourselves never ever act in accord with what our opponents or competitors swear is our best interest, (nor should we).

 

 

I thought he meant unload Sale’s contract and use the money for a better SP.

 

The real issue is Sale is in his final year and his contract just isn’t the obstacle it used to be. The Sox are either going to spend or they’re not and I’m not sure Sale and his contract are that much of an impact…

[moonslav59]

To "go big on at least one starter ... a more reliable starter" is what he said, but yes, when we start talking trades, our rhetoric sometimes outstrips reality. It's difficult to see such hypothetical trades from the other team's perspective. Normally we argue this is something they "should" do, but then, we ourselves never ever act in accord with what our opponents or competitors swear is our best interest, (nor should we).

 

Lessening the budget should allow for more and or better SP'ers. It's not complicated.

 

Maybe we trade Sale with $6M for a prospect and free up $20M to spend on a second top SP'er.

 

The team trading for Sale does not want to add a long term contract, so they take a chance on Sale.

[Bellhorn04]

I thought he meant unload Sale’s contract and use the money for a better SP.

 

The real issue is Sale is in his final year and his contract just isn’t the obstacle it used to be. The Sox are either going to spend or they’re not and I’m not sure Sale and his contract are that much of an impact…

 

Agreed. Plus who knows, he just might have a decent year. Keep what pitching we have and add to it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Agreed. Plus who knows, he just might have a decent year.

 

... flosses without slicing finger, releases emergency brake without snapping UCL, and empties dishwasher without incurring concussion from bumping head on open cabinet door.

 

(latter is always a good trick)

[mvp 78]

My order might be:

 

Ohtani is out of reach and not a possible Sox signing.

 

Tier A

1. Yamamoto

2. Gray (should be a shorter contract)

3. Montgomery

4. Nola

Tier B

5. Snell

6. ERod

7. Bauer

Tier C

8. Wacha

9. Imanaga

10. Stroman

11. Giolito

Tier D

12. Clevinger

13. Seth Lugo

 

I'm probably forgetting someone.

 

It looks like a deep year for SP'ers and we need 2-3. MAKE IT HAPPEN!

 

 

 

 

Flaherty?

 

I think the Cardinals are looking to grab at least 2 FA's as well. There are a lot of available pitchers, but there are a lot of buyers as well.

[mvp 78]

I thought he meant unload Sale’s contract and use the money for a better SP.

 

The real issue is Sale is in his final year and his contract just isn’t the obstacle it used to be. The Sox are either going to spend or they’re not and I’m not sure Sale and his contract are that much of an impact…

 

It's only one more year for Sale and they should just go over the CBT anyway.

[mvp 78]

Agreed. Plus who knows, he just might have a decent year. Keep what pitching we have and add to it.

 

Add enough pitching so that he slots in as the #5.

[notin]

Flaherty?

 

I think the Cardinals are looking to grab at least 2 FA's as well. There are a lot of available pitchers, but there are a lot of buyers as well.

 

 

Why Flaherty? Is he even a #5 anymore?

[notin]

I see. Trade a player for ANOTHER player at the same position who is better. Genius! I'm sure half the teams in the league would jump at that.

 

Also this kind of thing happens all the time, usually for economic reasons. I heard the Dodgers once upgraded their right field position by trading Alex Verdugo for another right fielder…

[mvp 78]

Why Flaherty? Is he even a #5 anymore?

 

FanGraphs projects him to have the same fWAR as Wacha and more than Clevinger.

[notin]

FanGraphs projects him to have the same fWAR as Wacha and more than Clevinger.

 

Interesting. And Clevinger felt like he could be the sneaky bargain in this FA class…

[moonslav59]

Flaherty?

 

I think the Cardinals are looking to grab at least 2 FA's as well. There are a lot of available pitchers, but there are a lot of buyers as well.

 

Maybe you have some numbers that could convince me he belongs in the list of hopefuls, but I see his 87 ERA+ from 2022-2023 and a 4.48 FIP/1.59 WHIP and thought, no.

[moonslav59]

It's only one more year for Sale and they should just go over the CBT anyway.

 

I agree, but I've given up expecting it to happen. They went over in 2022, when I didn't think they would.

 

They may also lose Pivetta and Dugo's contracts, so a reset in 2025 seems very possible.

 

Plus, I'm thinking we being to see some big farm infusions at the end of 2024 and to start 2025: Anthony, Teel, Mayer and maybe Yorke/Wikelman/Perales/Drohan.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I agree, but I've given up expecting it to happen. They went over in 2022, when I didn't think they would.

 

They may also lose Pivetta and Dugo's contracts, so a reset in 2025 seems very possible.

 

Plus, I'm thinking we being to see some big farm infusions at the end of 2024 and to start 2025: Anthony, Teel, Mayer and maybe Yorke/Wikelman/Perales/Drohan.

 

Two or three of them may be infusing another club after a blockbuster for MLB talent.

 

Storylines to look forward to in '24 will be the development of Teel as a cornerstone to build around, and the comeback of Miguel Bleis.

[jad]

Also this kind of thing happens all the time, usually for economic reasons. I heard the Dodgers once upgraded their right field position by trading Alex Verdugo for another right fielder…

 

Ha ha! Right. But alas, there is only one organization daft enough to do that, and I hear they have a new GM.

[mvp 78]

Interesting. And Clevinger felt like he could be the sneaky bargain in this FA class…

 

His xFIP was UGLY last year. Plus, he's a bad dood.

[mvp 78]

Maybe you have some numbers that could convince me he belongs in the list of hopefuls, but I see his 87 ERA+ from 2022-2023 and a 4.48 FIP/1.59 WHIP and thought, no.

 

He's not a guy I'd be overly excited about.

 

Two guys you mentioned:

Clevinger 22-23: 4.61 FIP

Giolito 22-23: 4.70 FIP

 

I don't know if Flaherty is much worse than them in my mind.

[mvp 78]

I agree, but I've given up expecting it to happen. They went over in 2022, when I didn't think they would.

 

They may also lose Pivetta and Dugo's contracts, so a reset in 2025 seems very possible.

 

Plus, I'm thinking we being to see some big farm infusions at the end of 2024 and to start 2025: Anthony, Teel, Mayer and maybe Yorke/Wikelman/Perales/Drohan.

 

Yup, lots of contracts coming off the books and an infusion of young talent. It SHOULD be cheaper to run this ballclub so they SHOULD be able to afford some more expensive guys.

[notin]

His xFIP was UGLY last year. Plus, he's a bad dood.

 

In the story I heard, that baby deserved it…

[notin]

Ha ha! Right. But alas, there is only one organization daft enough to do that, and I hear they have a new GM.

 

Only one?

 

The Mets traded their shortstop to upgrade to Francisco Lindor…