Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[vegasbob]

I wouldn't mind taking a swing at a 1 year with Anderson, they could strike gold if he has a bounce-back year. He fits the bill.

 

If Anderson was injured, then Bloom would have chased him all around the Loop trying to sign him... Let's see if Breslow goes fishing in the Chicago River

[vegasbob]

One thing sticking in my mind with the references to Erod. I think he has shown some signs of mental instability , most recently walking on his Tiger contract with $48 million to go. Didn't he take a couple months during 2022 or'23 to deal with issues?

Erod may be an 'idiot" but not a funny one.

[moonslav59]

I wouldn't mind taking a swing at a 1 year with Anderson, they could strike gold if he has a bounce-back year. He fits the bill.

 

I would guess Anderson would be a good defensive 2Bman, and he's only 30.

He was really good from 2020-2021 (.871 OPS and 131 OPS+.) That blows Urias away. (Urias is 26, however.)

 

However, in 2021:

.806/109+ Anderson

.789/112+ Urias

 

2021-2023:

.707/94+ Anderson

.748/106+ Urias

 

At $14M/1, I'd pass on Anderson.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If Anderson was injured, then Bloom would have chased him all around the Loop trying to sign him... Let's see if Breslow goes fishing in the Chicago River

 

... only if Anderson was rehabbing an injury and not expected back until August, when he'd supposedly be better than anyone they could acquire at the trade deadline... in 2025.

[notin]

One thing sticking in my mind with the references to Erod. I think he has shown some signs of mental instability , most recently walking on his Tiger contract with $48 million to go. Didn't he take a couple months during 2022 or'23 to deal with issues?

Erod may be an 'idiot" but not a funny one.

 

He took a year off to learn how to cover 1b. No word yet on if it took or not…

[Hugh2]

If Anderson was injured, then Bloom would have chased him all around the Loop trying to sign him... Let's see if Breslow goes fishing in the Chicago River

 

What does Bloom have to do with Anderson? Bloom is gone, lets move on.

[Hugh2]

I would guess Anderson would be a good defensive 2Bman, and he's only 30.

He was really good from 2020-2021 (.871 OPS and 131 OPS+.) That blows Urias away. (Urias is 26, however.)

 

However, in 2021:

.806/109+ Anderson

.789/112+ Urias

 

2021-2023:

.707/94+ Anderson

.748/106+ Urias

 

At $14M/1, I'd pass on Anderson.

 

Pass on him in general? or just pass on him at that dollar amount? because it's one year and they're likely going above the LTL so who cares if they pay a few extra million. It's one year.

 

There's really not much in FA, and any better option I would NOT want to sign to multiple years.

[notin]

What does Bloom have to do with Anderson? Bloom is gone, lets move on.

 

Bloom jokes are still timely. And we don’t know yet whether or not Breslow is funny…

[moonslav59]

Pass on him in general? or just pass on him at that dollar amount? because it's one year and they're likely going above the LTL so who cares if they pay a few extra million. It's one year.

 

There's really not much in FA, and any better option I would NOT want to sign to multiple years.

 

Even if we go over the first tax line, I doubt we go over the second one.

 

IMO, there will be finite winter budget. Spending $14M on Anderson to play 2B (and back up SS) would mean $14M less on pitching, CF/RF or a LH RP.

 

I suppose we trade or non tender Urias, and the net budget addition would be about $9M, but that is about what Duvall might get, or the difference between Clevinger and Gray.

 

Plus, Even if he cost only $10M, I might prefer Urias at $5M. He's 26 and has some nice upside. (Not really upside- just return to 2021 values.)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom jokes are still timely. And we don’t know yet whether or not Breslow is funny…

 

While Chaim was sharp, a lot of his answers seemed almost edited by company cliches, with Sam Kennedy bombast lurking between the lines.

 

But the new comedy may be watching Sam try to pretend he actually understands Craig. Listen closely if he stumbles through summaries or better, attempts to amplify; the less Sam gets, the less he'll say -- which will make Red Sox Nation rejoice. If a Breslow comment is followed with a mere, "Absolutely!" -- the new CBO will be a hero.

[mvp 78]

Rhys Hoskins and Teoscar didn't get offered a QO. What this shows me is that I highly doubt Alex Verdugo will get offered one either next season. His overall profile is similar to those two guys in value. May as well trade him.

[Hugh2]

Rhys Hoskins and Teoscar didn't get offered a QO. What this shows me is that I highly doubt Alex Verdugo will get offered one either next season. His overall profile is similar to those two guys in value. May as well trade him.

 

Even if that was true that’s not a great excuse to trade him. Even if you can Verdugo in at 2 War, you don’t know what you’ll get from your 3 other outfielders and the market is just thin.

 

We don’t know if Teoscar would have accepted if offered one.

 

Perhaps the most important factor is Verdugo will be almost three years younger than Teoscar was when he hits FA. There’s real value in that for a guy in his twenties

[mvp 78]

Even if that was true that’s not a great excuse to trade him. Even if you can Verdugo in at 2 War, you don’t know what you’ll get from your 3 other outfielders and the market is just thin.

 

I'd rather trade him for something now and make room for the younger OFers than lose him for nothing next offseason. I don't think Mr 1.8 fWAR Verdugo is worth holding a spot for.

[sk7326]

I would guess Anderson would be a good defensive 2Bman, and he's only 30.

He was really good from 2020-2021 (.871 OPS and 131 OPS+.) That blows Urias away. (Urias is 26, however.)

 

However, in 2021:

.806/109+ Anderson

.789/112+ Urias

 

2021-2023:

.707/94+ Anderson

.748/106+ Urias

 

At $14M/1, I'd pass on Anderson.

 

Also the $14 is a projection. After all, he got cut. It is certainly possible he gets significantly less than $14M as a base salary.

[Hugh2]

I'd rather trade him for something now and make room for the younger OFers than lose him for nothing next offseason. I don't think Mr 1.8 fWAR Verdugo is worth holding a spot for.

 

There are varying degrees of significant uncertainty in what all of Abreu/Duran/Rafaela/Yoshida will give you next year. Alex Verdugo's 1.8 fWar could easily be the 1st or 2nd best fWar in the outfield given your 2023 performances. What if Yoshida doesn't improve? heck what if his defense gets even worse? what if Abreu is a bust? what if Duran regresses? There's just sooooooo much potential for ugliness out there I don't know why team would trade a guy just because they should trade him to get something for him.

 

By that logic alone, every single player with 1 year of team control, with obvious caveats that we shouldn't jump into for simplicity (E.G. resign franchise players like Bogaerts) we shouldn't jump into.

 

Maybe we should talk about trading Pivetta, why not, there are at least a ton of options to replace him in free agency and on this roster!?!?!?!?

 

If you think you have a chance of winning in 2024, you should really keep Verdugo for a year.

[mvp 78]

There are varying degrees of significant uncertainty in what all of Abreu/Duran/Rafaela/Yoshida will give you next year. Alex Verdugo's 1.8 fWar could easily be the 1st or 2nd best fWar in the outfield given your 2023 performances. What if Yoshida doesn't improve? heck what if his defense gets even worse? what if Abreu is a bust? what if Duran regresses? There's just sooooooo much potential for ugliness out there I don't know why team would trade a guy just because they should trade him to get something for him.

 

By that logic alone, every single player with 1 year of team control, with obvious caveats that we shouldn't jump into for simplicity (E.G. resign franchise players like Bogaerts) we shouldn't jump into.

 

Maybe we should talk about trading Pivetta, why not, there are at least a ton of options to replace him in free agency and on this roster!?!?!?!?

 

If you think you have a chance of winning in 2024, you should really keep Verdugo for a year.

 

There are a TON of options in FA so Nick Pivetta's trade value would be low. There aren't a ton of FA options in FA at OF so Verdugo's trade value could be overinflated. Sell! Sell! Sell!

[Hugh2]

There are a TON of options in FA so Nick Pivetta's trade value would be low. There aren't a ton of FA options in FA at OF so Verdugo's trade value could be overinflated. Sell! Sell! Sell!

 

Replace with what? that was the whole point of my rebuttal. Is your outfield Yoshida/Duran/Abreu? I like all those guys, but I recognize the possibility of how disastrous that could be.

 

If we just want to sell high, why not sell on Duran? or Abreu? or Rafaela? certainly, if these guys are cost-controlled for 5-6 years and better than a 2 WAR player they should bring back SUBSTANTIAL value in return. If the goal is to maximize an asset due to market conditions then those are the guys we should be trading, no????

[moonslav59]

Also the $14 is a projection. After all, he got cut. It is certainly possible he gets significantly less than $14M as a base salary.

 

MLBTR projects $12M/1.

[mvp 78]

Replace with what? that was the whole point of my rebuttal. Is your outfield Yoshida/Duran/Abreu? I like all those guys, but I recognize the possibility of how disastrous that could be.

 

If we just want to sell high, why not sell on Duran? or Abreu? or Rafaela? certainly, if these guys are cost-controlled for 5-6 years and better than a 2 WAR player they should bring back SUBSTANTIAL value in return. If the goal is to maximize an asset due to market conditions then those are the guys we should be trading, no????

 

LF Duran

CF Rafaela

RF Duvall

Bench Abreu, Refsnyder

[mvp 78]

MLBTR projects $12M/1.

 

His ISO from the past two seasons is .068 which is pretty close to Ozzie Smith's career rate. He's got Ozzie's bat with below average defense.

 

Going back years ago and projecting him to regain nonexistent power is a fool's errand. Pass on that loser.

[Old Red]

I'd rather trade him for something now and make room for the younger OFers than lose him for nothing next offseason. I don't think Mr 1.8 fWAR Verdugo is worth holding a spot for.

 

The object for the 2024 Red Sox should be to put their best team on the field with a chance to get into the postseason in 2024. I wouldn’t just trade Dugy, because they won’t get anything for him at the end of the season, or i wouldn’t trade Dugy just to make room for younger OFers. All of the Duran, Raf Man, and Abreu are unproven, and as I’ve said before would be risky to count heavily on all three going into the 2024 season. What happens with Yoshida as a DH, or not, or if Duvall, or someone similar is signed will make a big difference too. Dugy had a good ist half last year, and will be on his last year before he can go FA, so he might be good for a full season in 2024, but either way i wouldn’t trade him just to trade him.

[moonslav59]

Replacing Dugo with Duvall makes sense. The budget cost should be about the same, and we should get something useful by trading Dugo.

 

Our OF will still have some questions, especially if Yoshida is our FT road DH and half-time home DH/LF'er.

 

DH: Yoshida

LF: Duran-Refsnyder platoon (Abreu and Yoshida in some home games)

CF: Rafaela,Abreu (Duran in emergency)

RF: Duvall, Abreu (Refsnyder in emergencies)

 

No added money spent on the OF allows for more to be spent on SP, 2B (trade?) and maybe C (Garver?)

[mvp 78]

The object for the 2024 Red Sox should be to put their best team on the field with a chance to get into the postseason in 2024. I wouldn’t just trade Dugy, because they won’t get anything for him at the end of the season, or i wouldn’t trade Dugy just to make room for younger OFers. All of the Duran, Raf Man, and Abreu are unproven, and as I’ve said before would be risky to count heavily on all three going into the 2024 season. What happens with Yoshida as a DH, or not, or if Duvall, or someone similar is signed will make a big difference too. Dugy had a good ist half last year, and will be on his last year before he can go FA, so he might be good for a full season in 2024, but either way i wouldn’t trade him just to trade him.

 

I would trade him so that you could get something useful back like a starting 2B or as part of a package for a SP.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Replacing Dugo with Duvall makes sense. The budget cost should be about the same, and we should get something useful by trading Dugo.

 

Our OF will still have some questions, especially if Yoshida is our FT road DH and half-time home DH/LF'er.

 

DH: Yoshida

LF: Duran-Refsnyder platoon (Abreu and Yoshida in some home games)

CF: Rafaela,Abreu (Duran in emergency)

RF: Duvall, Abreu (Refsnyder in emergencies)

 

No added money spent on the OF allows for more to be spent on SP, 2B (trade?) and maybe C (Garver?)

 

As a long-time fan of a club noted for star outfielders, I'm not excited by an unproven all-platoon outfield, left to right.

 

There may be little chance to develop All-Stars for '24, but there is certainly room for upgrade by trade.

 

Especially if 3/4ths of the infield returns -- as most assume (Devers-Story-Casas) -- and the catchers are just keeping the position warm for Teel.

 

Don't want to deal a haul for Soto or Trout? Ok, but we can at least part with a few Best Shortstops Available for a solid full-time corner outfielder. Gurriel is a righty with pull power and a good glove... and arb eligible to become a free agent in a year. A new CBO determined to improve his big league roster should be expected to add someone like that.

[mvp 78]

Replacing Dugo with Duvall makes sense. The budget cost should be about the same, and we should get something useful by trading Dugo.

 

Our OF will still have some questions, especially if Yoshida is our FT road DH and half-time home DH/LF'er.

 

DH: Yoshida

LF: Duran-Refsnyder platoon (Abreu and Yoshida in some home games)

CF: Rafaela,Abreu (Duran in emergency)

RF: Duvall, Abreu (Refsnyder in emergencies)

 

No added money spent on the OF allows for more to be spent on SP, 2B (trade?) and maybe C (Garver?)

 

I just think DH is a better fit for Masa. He was a fulltime DH in Japan and he'll be less likely to wear down there in '24. When he was playing well, Masa was a force.

[mvp 78]

As a long-time fan of a club noted for star outfielders, I'm not excited by an unproven all-platoon outfield, left to right.

 

Too bad. Signing Gurriel isn't going to fix that problem for you.

[Old Red]

I would trade him so that you could get something useful back like a starting 2B or as part of a package for a SP.

 

I don’t believe you’ll get a lot back for Dugy by himself, or part of a package with being on his last year before FA. I’m not against trading him, but maybe one of the other OF will get traded instead

[notin]

I would trade him so that you could get something useful back like a starting 2B or as part of a package for a SP.

 

Hard to make a match.

 

One team that might be interested is the Reds, who have an abundance of middle infielders and a weak OF. And managed to become contenders in the NL Central, a division that just gets more wide open every day.

 

Verdugo for Jonathan India seems reasonable. It’s close on BTV, but not quite a match.

 

The downside is India has yet to repeat his ROY campaign and isn’t exactly a defensive wizard…

[mvp 78]

I don’t believe you’ll get a lot back for Dugy by himself, or part of a package with being on his last year before FA. I’m not against trading him, but maybe one of the other OF will get traded instead

 

I don't want to trade the other guys.

[mvp 78]

Hard to make a match.

 

This attitude is why the Sox hired Crag instead of you.