Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

Cut out the company line stuff about going into hiding you are just play copycat.

I have already said more than once that I believe JT is coming back, so all the suggestions I keep hearing is mute. I know how some get things in their craw, and think if they shout long, and loud enough Cora will hear,and do it. Just last offseason after Bogey left, and everyone was saying the Red Sox need to go out, and get a SS, and Story should stay at 2B. I kept saying that Story should be the SS, and that’s what they signed him for, and low, and behold if Story hadn’t of come up lame he would have been the opening day SS just like he is now. Or all the talk of Whitlock being in the rotation when for 2 years now I’ve been saying he should stay in the pen. They are not going to sign Chapman, who yes is a good 3B, but not much of a hitter, and would be too costly anyways when money should go to pitching. For better, or worse Raffy is your 3B, and Casas is your 1B, and hopefully they can get better on D. By the way have you figured out yet with 1 game to go that JT wasn’t signed for the bench. That was a doozy of a question you asked on that one.🙈

 

You were the one that said you went into hiding. Not in those words, but you admitted you stopped watching, and it just happened to be when we were doing well. You claimed it was about baseball being watered down and not fun to watch anymore. Then, when we start losing, you comeback huffing and puffing, gloating and calling optimistic fans "losers." You start watching the games again, despite the league still being "watered down." It's not a "company line:" it's your line and your MO.

 

You keep acting like us suggesting we get a SS and play Story at 2B was a prediction, and we were wrong for wanting a SS, and you were right.

 

You crack me up, literally.

 

[Old Red]

Pivetta has actually complicated things a bit by pitching incredibly well down the stretch.

 

I don’t think Pivetta has complicated anything. He has good stretches like he did at the end in the BP, and the rotation, but let’s not forget why he was taken out of the rotation in the ist place. He shows up everyday, and is a #5 starter. I don’t see that anything has changed.

[moonslav59]

Pivetta has actually complicated things a bit by pitching incredibly well down the stretch.

 

He's pitched very well for pretty long stretches of every season with the Sox.

 

If he could just do it for a full season, we'd be blessed. I don't think we can count on it.

 

I'd pencil him in as the #5 with Sale as the #6. (For those who dislike slotting pitchers: Pivetta in the rotation and Sale as SP depth.)

 

I'm pretty sure the Sox will slot Sale in the rotation. I think Cora has already said he wants Sale to be the 2024 opening day starter. I'm okay with that idea, if and only if, we add 3 solid SP'ers, so Pivetta is made SP'er depth/long reliever.

 

In short, if our offseason plan is to slot Sale and Pivetta in the starting 5, we are asking for trouble. Having Crawford, Houck and Whitlock as our primary SP'er depth is just asking for trouble.

 

Ideally, if Sale is in the starting 5, Pivetta, Crawford, Houck and Whitlock should be in the pen, perhaps making it a top 3 pen in MLB with near revolutionary long relief in the pen.

 

[moonslav59]

I don’t think Pivetta has complicated anything. He has good stretches like he did at the end in the BP, and the rotation, but let’s not forget why he was taken out of the rotation in the ist place. He shows up everyday, and is a #5 starter. I don’t see that anything has changed.

 

Yes. He was give 8 starts, and many felt that leash was too long, as it was. He had a 6.30 ERA and a 5.73 FIP. He was still at 6.15 after a couple sketchy relief games, but then went 3.05 (3.27 FIP) in his next 28 games and 97+ IP. That was 4 months.

 

His good streaks have been longer than his bad one, but when he is bad, he's been real bad. It's hard to manage a guy like him. It's hard to plan the next season with him. He's been too good to want to trade, but it's frustrating, every year.

 

[moonslav59]

Yes. He was give 8 starts, and many felt that leash was too long, as it was. He had a 6.30 ERA and a 5.73 FIP. He was still at 6.15 after a couple sketchy relief games, but then went 3.05 (3.27 FIP) in his next 28 games and 97+ IP. That was 4 months.

 

His good streaks have been longer than his bad one, but when he is bad, he's been real bad. It's hard to manage a guy like him. It's hard to plan the next season with him. He's been too good to want to trade, but it's frustrating, every year.

 

 

They gave Kluber 9 starts at 6.26/6.57. He then let up 9 runs in his first 6.1 innings in relief. He and Pivetta killed us in April and halfway into May.

[Old Red]

It doesn’t matter “if you think” Turner is coming back. We know with 100% certainty he is not accepting the option, so he will be free to negotiate with any and every team. And as a few teams have former Dodger executives, Turner has a bunch of fans. He is as likely as Chapman right now.

 

It’s so cute how you pay yourself on the back. Exactly how ardent was that “new shortstop” fervor in the two weeks between Bogaerts signing with San Diego and Story injuring himself warning up for the WBC? Most of the other shortstop stuff came long after Story himself was out of the equation, including Andrus and any other names mentioned.

 

I think everyone knows he will opt out, but that doesn’t mean he won’t resign. Turner likes Boston, his wife likes Boston, and Cora likes JT. Maybe at this point in his career he doesn’t want to make another move, so a 2 year fair contract may do the trick, which I think has a better chance of happening than signing Chapman.

I’m not patting myself on the back just stating facts. Just like I said that signing Bloom was a bad idea, and so was resigning Kike, who I was told by more than 1 on here that the Red Sox couldn’t have gotten anything better for $10M. How did that work out? I said the Red Sox should have signed Jansen last year, so a year late was better than nothing. To me none of these things were hard to see. There was plenty of SS stuff that came up after Story got hurt, but there was plenty of Story stuff saying he should stay at 2B too, before he got hurt. To me that was another easy decision too to return him to SS, and that’s where he his today. No patting anyone on the back, because all of these things I had pointed out made the Red Sox where they are today, which is a losing, last place in the Div team. Final answer to the question you asked before the season that NO thebRed Sox did not sign JT to be on the bench.

D

[moonslav59]

I think everyone knows he will opt out, but that doesn’t mean he won’t resign. Turner likes Boston, his wife likes Boston, and Cora likes JT. Maybe at this point in his career he doesn’t want to make another move, so a 2 year fair contract may do the trick, which I think has a better chance of happening than signing Chapman.

 

Again, nobody is saying signing Chapman is going to happen. It's a suggestion by a poster.

 

Nobody is saying JT won't re-sign with the Sox, but many of us feel we already have enough DH first types on the team to think it's the best idea.

 

If he signs, it doesn't make you right and us wrong. We are not making predictions, when we suggest what we'd like to see done.

[moonslav59]

I’m not patting myself on the back just stating facts. Just like I said that signing Bloom was a bad idea, and so was resigning Kike, who I was told by more than 1 on here that the Red Sox couldn’t have gotten anything better for $10M. How did that work out? I said the Red Sox should have signed Jansen last year, so a year late was better than nothing. To me none of these things were hard to see. There was plenty of SS stuff that came up after Story got hurt, but there was plenty of Story stuff saying he should stay at 2B too, before he got hurt. To me that was another easy decision too to return him to SS, and that’s where he his today. No patting anyone on the back, because all of these things I had pointed out made the Red Sox where they are today, which is a losing, last place in the Div team. Final answer to the question you asked before the season that NO thebRed Sox did not sign JT to be on the bench.

D

 

Do you even know what "patting yourself on the back" means?

 

It's not "patting" when you are wrong. Being a fact that you got a few things right, does not mean it's not "patting."

[notin]

Wacha 14-4, 3.22 E.R.A. Bloom thought it was smarter to give Kluber 10 million. Another reason he got fired. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

Wacha was worth 1.2 fWAR last year and wanted 2 years $30mill (per MLBTR). Kluber was worth over 3 fWAR last year and was available for $10mill. If you go with what they are like at th He time, this is not really much a criticism.

 

At some point, criticisms can’t be “failed to predict unforeseen events.”…

[notin]

I think everyone knows he will opt out, but that doesn’t mean he won’t resign. Turner likes Boston, his wife likes Boston, and Cora likes JT. Maybe at this point in his career he doesn’t want to make another move, so a 2 year fair contract may do the trick, which I think has a better chance of happening than signing Chapman.

I’m not patting myself on the back just stating facts. Just like I said that signing Bloom was a bad idea, and so was resigning Kike, who I was told by more than 1 on here that the Red Sox couldn’t have gotten anything better for $10M. How did that work out? I said the Red Sox should have signed Jansen last year, so a year late was better than nothing. To me none of these things were hard to see. There was plenty of SS stuff that came up after Story got hurt, but there was plenty of Story stuff saying he should stay at 2B too, before he got hurt. To me that was another easy decision too to return him to SS, and that’s where he his today. No patting anyone on the back, because all of these things I had pointed out made the Red Sox where they are today, which is a losing, last place in the Div team. Final answer to the question you asked before the season that NO thebRed Sox did not sign JT to be on the bench.

D

 

 

He absolutely might re-sign. If you actually read the post you were responding to, I said as much.

 

And it’s not a terrible idea. He’s a solid player who certainly won’t require a ridiculous contract. But unless the Sox also move Casas (please, no!), bringing back Turner is more of the same.

 

And nobody and I do mean nobody on this board posts themselves on the back more than you. If some fans thought Story was a better fit at second base, Trevor himself made that argument very well in 2021. (And Sean McDonough said multiple times he thought Story’s future in Boston was at 2b.)

 

Really the whole issue at short came after when Story got hurt and the Sox had no starting middle infield. The moves Kike out and weakened CF and then never replaced Story at second. Unless you count Mondesi, which you shouldn’t.

 

And Chapman makes a ton more sense than Turner. Unless you like last place. Keep doing what you’re doing and you’ll keep getting what you’re getting…

[moonslav59]

Wacha was worth 1.2 fWAR last year and wanted 2 years $30mill (per MLBTR). Kluber was worth over 3 fWAR last year and was available for $10mill. If you go with what they are like at th He time, this is not really much a criticism.

 

At some point, criticisms can’t be “failed to predict unforeseen events.”…

 

Wacha did not get $30M/2.

[notin]

Pivetta has actually complicated things a bit by pitching incredibly well down the stretch.

 

Not at all…

[notin]

Wacha did not get $30M/2.

 

That was his demand when he talked to Boston according to MLBTR…

[dgalehouse]

I don't think an objective observer would look at this team and conclude that third base and first base were the things that needed fixing.

[moonslav59]

I don't think an objective observer would look at this team and conclude that third base and first base were the things that needed fixing.

 

Exactly, and nobody is suggesting we bench or trade our corner IF'ers.

[moonslav59]

That was his demand when he talked to Boston according to MLBTR…

 

The one guy we rush to sign: Kluber.

[notin]

I think everyone knows he will opt out, but that doesn’t mean he won’t resign. Turner likes Boston, his wife likes Boston, and Cora likes JT. Maybe at this point in his career he doesn’t want to make another move, so a 2 year fair contract may do the trick, which I think has a better chance of happening than signing Chapman.

I’m not patting myself on the back just stating facts. Just like I said that signing Bloom was a bad idea, and so was resigning Kike, who I was told by more than 1 on here that the Red Sox couldn’t have gotten anything better for $10M. How did that work out? I said the Red Sox should have signed Jansen last year, so a year late was better than nothing. To me none of these things were hard to see. There was plenty of SS stuff that came up after Story got hurt, but there was plenty of Story stuff saying he should stay at 2B too, before he got hurt. To me that was another easy decision too to return him to SS, and that’s where he his today. No patting anyone on the back, because all of these things I had pointed out made the Red Sox where they are today, which is a losing, last place in the Div team. Final answer to the question you asked before the season that NO thebRed Sox did not sign JT to be on the bench.

D

 

It doesn’t matter if he likes Boston or his wife likes Boston. All that matters is Boston has to make the highest offer.

 

The MLBPA requires players to take the most money (and interpreting options as they see fit) and Turner, a former Player Rep and active union member, is 99.999999% likely to abide by the union requirement…

[Larry Cook]

It doesn’t matter if he likes Boston or his wife likes Boston. All that matters is Boston has to make the highest offer.

 

The MLBPA requires players to take the most money (and interpreting options as they see fit) and Turner, a former Player Rep and active union member, is 99.999999% likely to abide by the union requirement…

 

Turner made himself a lot of money this year. He owes it to himself to seek the best deal he can.

[moonslav59]

It doesn’t matter if he likes Boston or his wife likes Boston. All that matters is Boston has to make the highest offer.

 

The MLBPA requires players to take the most money (and interpreting options as they see fit) and Turner, a former Player Rep and active union member, is 99.999999% likely to abide by the union requirement…

 

The other factor is that we may not even offer him a contract. We have 5 guys on our 26 man roster who are negatives on D.

[jad]

It doesn’t matter if he likes Boston or his wife likes Boston. All that matters is Boston has to make the highest offer.

 

The MLBPA requires players to take the most money (and interpreting options as they see fit) and Turner, a former Player Rep and active union member, is 99.999999% likely to abide by the union requirement…

 

Where is that requirement in the CBA? section reference? Thanks.

[notin]

The one guy we rush to sign: Kluber.

 

I’m a bit hesitant to call it a rush signing. He was at least Plan C. Maybe even lower off there were any free agent or trade talks we don’t know about…

[notin]

Where is that requirement in the CBA? section reference? Thanks.

 

It’s an MLBPA thing. It’s not in the CBA. MLBPA is the one who encourages their members to take the most money.

[Hugh2]

I really really like Justin Turner, but not enough to sign him here for his age 38 and 39 seasons. We have too many DH types on the roster.

[moonslav59]

I’m a bit hesitant to call it a rush signing. He was at least Plan C. Maybe even lower off there were any free agent or trade talks we don’t know about…

 

They didn't want to wait for Wacha's demands to fall.

[moonslav59]

I really really like Justin Turner, but not enough to sign him here for his age 38 and 39 seasons. We have too many DH types on the roster.

 

Yes, that's it in a nutshell. If we needed a DH, sure, but we have a chance to improve our defense and maybe improve Yoshida's offense, too, by allowing him to not wear down by playing DH nearly FT.

 

We have other big needs. It will not be easy replacing his bat and his spirit, but it seems like the best thing to do. (That doesn't mean he's not coming back.)

 

[notin]

They didn't want to wait for Wacha's demands to fall.

 

Per MLBTR, Wacha was giving that number to multiple teams. No one was biting. He only signed with San Diego because they put together this option and incentive-laden deal…

[notin]

Yes, that's it in a nutshell. If we needed a DH, sure, but we have a chance to improve our defense and maybe improve Yoshida's offense, too, by allowing him to not wear down by playing DH nearly FT.

 

We have other big needs. It will not be easy replacing his bat and his spirit, but it seems like the best thing to do. (That doesn't mean he's not coming back.)

 

 

He might come back. But it’s not the right move…

[jad]

It’s an MLBPA thing. It’s not in the CBA. MLBPA is the one who encourages their members to take the most money.

 

I've looked at a number of documents by MLBPA and I can find nothing on this. Where is it? (Not saying you're wrong; Doubtless most unions eel this way on some level. But where do they state this?)

Edited October 1, 2023 by jad

[moonslav59]

Per MLBTR, Wacha was giving that number to multiple teams. No one was biting. He only signed with San Diego because they put together this option and incentive-laden deal…

 

The option is not player friendly.

 

Bloom waited until the last minute several times. He should have, here.

 

[Larry Cook]

I really really like Justin Turner, but not enough to sign him here for his age 38 and 39 seasons. We have too many DH types on the roster.

 

Which DH types do we have a chance to jettison this offseason.