8/28 Astros @ SOX 7:10PM ET

[mvp 78]

Yes it was only 1 game, but every game counts, and the season is getting shorter. The thing is, which I’ve been saying for a long time now is that the players, coaches, and manager is playing for right now. I wouldn’t have blamed any of them last night if they all would have walked off the field, and looked up, and gave Bloom the middle finger as they did. I’ll worry about next year when this season is over. To me keeping Turner is a must despite Yoshida, Raffy, and Casas deficiencies on D. It wouldn’t bother me at all to see them trade Yoshida for some starting pitching. Turner’s bat should play for a couple more years, and produce more than Yoshida anyway.

 

Trade a player you don't think has any value for a starting pitcher? In your world, what kind of pitcher comes back for a guy you believe is losing time to Abreu and can't field?

[Old Red]

Trade a player you don't think has any value for a starting pitcher? In your world, what kind of pitcher comes back for a guy you believe is losing time to Abreu and can't field?

 

I had said right now it looked like either Yoshida, or Abreu was going to play, so the fact that Yoshida did not start Sat, or Sunday I would say that was in Cora’s world. Who said Yoshida didn’t have any value? I don’t think he would have as much as some would think, so he would have to be part of a trade to get some much needed starting pitching. If you want to go with all these young guns in the OF then Yoshida could be expendable. $100M for a DH would have to be for a Ortiz type, and certainly not a Yoshida to me.

[moonslav59]

Trade a player you don't think has any value for a starting pitcher? In your world, what kind of pitcher comes back for a guy you believe is losing time to Abreu and can't field?

 

They could package Bear Claw and Llover and get an ace!

[Old Red]

They could package Bear Claw and Llover and get an ace!

 

Only if Bloom was the HOBO on the receiving end of the trade.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They could package Bear Claw and Llover and get an ace!

 

They could also get a King and Queen, but forget about a Royal Strait... because in reality, they won't get Jack.

[moonslav59]

Only if Bloom was the HOBO on the receiving end of the trade.��

 

Like Workman and Hembree for Pivetta?

[mvp 78]

I had said right now it looked like either Yoshida, or Abreu was going to play, so the fact that Yoshida did not start Sat, or Sunday I would say that was in Cora’s world. Who said Yoshida didn’t have any value? I don’t think he would have as much as some would think, so he would have to be part of a trade to get some much needed starting pitching. If you want to go with all these young guns in the OF then Yoshida could be expendable. $100M for a DH would have to be for a Ortiz type, and certainly not a Yoshida to me.

 

So you surrounded a very vague response with a whole bunch of nonsense. If you are making a trade that includes Yoshida, what is it and what type of starting pitcher are you bringing back.

 

In your post you even say that his contract is too high so are the Sox going to be eating some of that $$$? How much?

[Old Red]

Like Workman and Hembree for Pivetta?

 

Was that this year? You also forgot one of your fan faves the Sea Man.

[Old Red]

So you surrounded a very vague response with a whole bunch of nonsense. If you are making a trade that includes Yoshida, what is it and what type of starting pitcher are you bringing back.

 

In your post you even say that his contract is too high so are the Sox going to be eating some of that $$$? How much?

 

You don’t think $100M is high for a DH? I have no idea what is out there for starting pitching, but I keep hearing the Red Sox have to many players who should DH. Nonsense was last nights game.

[cukes]

LOLOL....that's what i read too. f*** Cora, f*** Bloom and f*** JH for this giant stinking f***ing mess.

 

He sacrificed games early ion the season and those are wins you need at the end, stupid is as stupid does

[moonslav59]

He sacrificed games early ion the season and those are wins you need at the end, stupid is as stupid does

 

If the "sacrifice" was a true sacrifice, meaning it gained something later- like maybe 2-3 wins, it might not be so stupid.

 

Every team packs in some games. This one seemed like a weird choice, but with the open over-taxed, I think the plan was drawn up before the game started with fingers crossed on Sale and Bear Claw.

 

All the extra pitches Sale had to pitch to get 4 outs in a couple innings might have tipped the plan a little, but needing Bear Claw to do well is never a good plan.

[moonslav59]

Was that this year? You also forgot one of your fan faves the Sea Man.

 

Huh?

[Old Red]

Huh?

 

Huh? That’s what I thought talking about a trade that happened in 2020.

[moonslav59]

Huh? That’s what I thought talking about a trade that happened in 2020.

 

I brought up a relevant example of Bloom not always being on the dumpster side of trades.

 

He also traded for Urias, this summer.

 

Again, I wish he had traded for 2 SP'er and kept Houck in the pen, but he didn't.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm sure the game had a bad effect on everyone, including me, but it was one game. It was actually a good one, until Bear Claw's meltdown. It's not the first time a team has offered up a sacrificial lamb to save the pen for the next few games.

 

If we lose these next two games, it will all be for not, and the hatch jobs will multiply exponentially.

 

I had higher hopes for this team than most, but I still did not project 90+ wins.

 

I'm happier with this team than I expected, because the players who are returning (Jansen, Martin, Urias, Reyes...) and who were big question marks (Casas, Duran, Bello, Crawford, Wink, Wong...) played well or better than I had hoped for.

 

I think our farm looks better, now than in March, despite several graduations.

 

I think the team is on the right path, but it sucks having to watch too many games like last night, knowing we were just 1-2 solid pitchers away from making this season more competitive than it has been.

 

I'm not happy, but I have really enjoyed watching this team. Despite losing Bogey, JD and Nate, this year was more fun. I hate thinking we will likely lose Turner, but with Yoshida and casas looking more and more like DH's, going forward, I think it has to happen.

 

I'm still holding onto a sliver of hope for 2023, but it's not looking good, at all.

 

You and I seem to be on the same side of this argument--to the degree that we both recognize that Cora's decision to stay with Barraclough in the 6th inning was carefully considered and in fact had a rationale.

 

I agree with you that such a drastic action--talksoxers are furious and would gladly lynch Cora and/or Bloom--might not have turned the tide. Stay tuned for the next 2 games.

 

But I would ask you whether you agree the schedule--48 games with 3 days off--isn't the biggest culprit here? It seems to me unprecedented. Is it?

 

The 48 games started on August 4, which was before Story's return (8 Aug) or Sale's (11 Aug) or Whitlock's (13 Aug) or Houck's (22 Aug). If those four were the cavalry coming to the rescue, maybe they were a tad late because all four still needed MLB games to get back to their best (if that were possible). I think they did help, but Sale and Houck definitely contributed to the problem of starters not eating enough innings, which exacerbated what the brutal schedule was already doing--putting immense pressure on the bullpen.

[moonslav59]

You and I seem to be on the same side of this argument--to the degree that we both recognize that Cora's decision to stay with Barraclough in the 6th inning was carefully considered and in fact had a rationale.

 

I agree with you that such a drastic action--talksoxers are furious and would gladly lynch Cora and/or Bloom--might not have turned the tide. Stay tuned for the next 2 games.

 

But I would ask you whether you agree the schedule--48 games with 3 days off--isn't the biggest culprit here? It seems to me unprecedented. Is it?

 

The 48 games started on August 4, which was before Story's return (8 Aug) or Sale's (11 Aug) or Whitlock's (13 Aug) or Houck's (22 Aug). If those four were the cavalry coming to the rescue, maybe they were a tad late because all four still needed MLB games to get back to their best (if that were possible). I think they did help, but Sale and Houck definitely contributed to the problem of starters not eating enough innings, which exacerbated what the brutal schedule was already doing--putting immense pressure on the bullpen.

 

I'm not sure if 48 games in 51 days has never happened, but that is extreme, I agree.

 

We did know it was coming, and had some more rest before then than most teams, I assume.

 

Cora also rested many of ourplayers and no pitchers seems maxed out on IP, so we should have handled it better.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not sure if 48 games in 51 days has never happened, but that is extreme, I agree.

 

We did know it was coming, and had some more rest before then than most teams, I assume.

 

Cora also rested many of ourplayers and no pitchers seems maxed out on IP, so we should have handled it better.

 

-The problems are with relief pitchers who are gassed from recent overuse.

 

-How should we have handled it better? Anything specific?

[Old Red]

-The problems are with relief pitchers who are gassed from recent overuse.

 

-How should we have handled it better? Anything specific?

 

Outside of getting some actual reliable starters, and no I don’t know who when Houck, Sale, and Whit went down? Nothing!

[Randy Red Sox]

One of Bloom’s few good moves seeing as how both those guys flamed out

[moonslav59]

-The problems are with relief pitchers who are gassed from recent overuse.

 

-How should we have handled it better? Anything specific?

 

It goes back to last winter.

 

Had they added 2 more solid SP'er or one reliable ace, it would have pushed 1-2 SP'er to long relief roles and kept guys like Jacques, Llover and Bear Claw from even being on the 26.

 

Other than that, I'm not sure what more you can do, except play the revolving door with AAA to keep bringing up fresh arms. I'm not sure we could have done that more or better.

 

It did seem like just a temporary issues, and every team goes through this 1-5 times a year, I think.

 

My wording could have been better. I didn't really see a way out of last night without messing up the next 2 nights. (I could be wrong.)

[mvp 78]

@IanMBrowne

Yes, Sale felt awful for Barraclough:

“Especially when it’s all your fault. I ruined multiple people’s nights tonight by what I went out there and did and that's embarrassing. It's unacceptable. Who I'm supposed to be, what I'm supposed to be, I'm not even close and that that's tough pill to swallow.”

[Old Red]

It goes back to last winter.

 

Had they added 2 more solid SP'er or one reliable ace, it would have pushed 1-2 SP'er to long relief roles and kept guys like Jacques, Llover and Bear Claw from even being on the 26.

 

Other than that, I'm not sure what more you can do, except play the revolving door with AAA to keep bringing up fresh arms. I'm not sure we could have done that more or better.

 

It did seem like just a temporary issues, and every team goes through this 1-5 times a year, I think.

 

My wording could have been better. I didn't really see a way out of last night without messing up the next 2 nights. (I could be wrong.)

Having three starters go out at the same time put a big hurt on things, and add the demise of the opening day starter in Kluber didn’t help either, but we all knew going into the season, and counting on this bunch to stay healthy was a risky proposition at best, and Sale did not disappoint. Whitlock getting hurt was not a big surprise to me either.

[moonslav59]

Having three starters go out at the same time put a big hurt on things, and add the demise of the opening day starter in Kluber didn’t help either, but we all knew going into the season, and counting on this bunch to stay healthy was a risky proposition at best, and Sale did not disappoint. Whitlock getting hurt was not a big surprise to me either.

 

Exactly. Hardly any pitchers could be counted on for even 24 starts, let alone 28-33. That's why we needed 2 more SP'ers or one ace-type.

 

Even Bello was questionable.

 

The guy most likely to get 32-33 starts was Pivetta, largely viewed as our #5.

[Old Red]

@IanMBrowne

Yes, Sale felt awful for Barraclough:

“Especially when it’s all your fault. I ruined multiple people’s nights tonight by what I went out there and did and that's embarrassing. It's unacceptable. Who I'm supposed to be, what I'm supposed to be, I'm not even close and that that's tough pill to swallow.”

 

I heard the press conference on the post game last night. He did take blame, and usually does when things don’t go well. Did someone check the TV in the clubhouse to see if it is still working though?

[Duran Is The Man]

Exactly. Hardly any pitchers could be counted on for even 24 starts, let alone 28-33. That's why we needed 2 more SP'ers or one ace-type.

 

Even Bello was questionable.

 

The guy most likely to get 32-33 starts was Pivetta, largely viewed as our #5.

 

 

apparently everyone but Bloom knows this. gawd almighty what a clusterf*** he's been.

[moonslav59]

apparently everyone but Bloom knows this. gawd almighty what a clusterf*** he's been.

 

He was listening to everyone from this board saying we just needed a strong pen!

 

(LOL)

[Old Red]

He was listening to everyone from this board saying we just needed a strong pen!

 

(LOL)

 

Some of us were saying that last year. I was yelling for Jansen last year.

[moonslav59]

Some of us were saying that last year. I was yelling for Jansen last year.

 

We have been playing whack a mole. Last year: try to fix the rotation with 2 SP'ers. This year, neglect the rotation and sign 2 very nice RP'ers and some depth.

[mvp 78]

We have been playing whack a mole. Last year: try to fix the rotation with 2 SP'ers. This year, neglect the rotation and sign 2 very nice RP'ers and some depth.

 

And leave a bunch of room under the CBT.

 

Also, if the Kluber money went to a decent pitcher…

[moonslav59]

And leave a bunch of room under the CBT.

 

Also, if the Kluber money went to a decent pitcher…

 

Yup.

 

I usually avoid the "what if" game on the budget, and I think Bloom made a lot of shrewd signings, like Martin, Jansen, Duvall and Turner, but...

 

No Kluber $10M

No Kike $10M

No Mondesi $3M

Tax Room $6-9M

 

We are talking almost $30M!

 

Eflin and Wacha would have been nice, and it would have been cheaper, in terms of 2023 dollars.