Red Sox Spring Training 2023

[notin]

Just look at all the injuries piling up around the league. Time off doesn't mean they are simply "rested." It's more like they've been sitting in mothballs.

 

Not to mention, maybe Sale himself was saying he’s just not ready yet. I would imagine Cora has been talking to pitchers about when they’re ready to go.

 

And no pitcher has had a longer layoff than Paxton, and his first outing didn’t exactly go well…

[Bellhorn04]

I guess I’ve just had enough, and are over anything Sale. Babying, or not babying had nothing to do with all his last year problems, so if he gets hurt pitching so be it, and to me no big loss.

 

Wonderful attitude!

[mvp 78]

Not to mention, maybe Sale himself was saying he’s just not ready yet. I would imagine Cora has been talking to pitchers about when they’re ready to go.

 

And no pitcher has had a longer layoff than Paxton, and his first outing didn’t exactly go well…

 

It was going great, until it wasn't.

[Old Red]

Wonderful attitude!

 

Not really an attitude, but a reality is it not?Sale has been pretty much been a loss since 2019.

[notin]

Not really an attitude, but a reality is it not?Sale has been pretty much been a loss since 2019.

 

And the Sox need to push him hard to keep that streak going!!

[mvp 78]

And the Sox need to push him hard to keep that streak going!!

 

"Everything sucks! May as well make sure it keeps sucking!"

[Old Red]

And the Sox need to push him hard to keep that streak going!!

 

Who is pushing him hard, or even suggesting it? If some think pushing Sale back a week, or two is really going to make a difference in him being, and staying healthy than fine, but i don’t. Sorry I just don’t feel the Sale hype anymore, but I just don’t. I would love to See Sale come back, and pitch like he did prior to TJ, but I don’t think he will, or are counting on it. If he does GREAT.

[moonslav59]

Who is pushing him hard, or even suggesting it? If some think pushing Sale back a week, or two is really going to make a difference in him being, and staying healthy than fine, but i don’t. Sorry I just don’t feel the Sale hype anymore, but I just don’t. I would love to See Sale come back, and pitch like he did prior to TJ, but I don’t think he will, or are counting on it. If he does GREAT.

 

Who says he's been pushed back a week?

[mvp 78]

Who is pushing him hard, or even suggesting it? If some think pushing Sale back a week, or two is really going to make a difference in him being, and staying healthy than fine, but i don’t. Sorry I just don’t feel the Sale hype anymore, but I just don’t. I would love to See Sale come back, and pitch like he did prior to TJ, but I don’t think he will, or are counting on it. If he does GREAT.

 

Nobody is realistically expecting 2018 Sale to come back. I think we'd be more than thrilled if it was just 2019ish, which was no longer elite level Sale.

[notin]

"Everything sucks! May as well make sure it keeps sucking!"

 

Better the Devil you know…

[moonslav59]

Nobody is realistically expecting 2018 Sale to come back. I think we'd be more than thrilled if it was just 2019ish, which was no longer elite level Sale.

 

Is 160 IP, a 3.25 ERA and a 1.05 WHIP somewhat reasonable for 2023?

[Old Red]

Who says he's been pushed back a week?

 

Who says he was not ready?

[moonslav59]

I think this is our 9th game, today. If our 6 starters were each given a start from day one, maybe Sale would normally have started game 6. Starting game 9 is only being pushed back maybe 3 days, not a week or more.

 

It's as easy as 3-2-1.

[notin]

Nobody is realistically expecting 2018 Sale to come back. I think we'd be more than thrilled if it was just 2019ish, which was no longer elite level Sale.

 

2019 Sale started slow but then hit an elite level run for a while. I’d be ok with that. 2019 Sale is light years ahead of any version of Winckowski or Crawford…

[mvp 78]

Is 160 IP, a 3.25 ERA and a 1.05 WHIP somewhat reasonable for 2023?

 

That's on the high side.

 

Steamer has the most favorable projection at 147 innings and 3.46 ERA. WHIP 1.15 or higher probably IMO.

[mvp 78]

2019 Sale started slow but then hit an elite level run for a while. I’d be ok with that. 2019 Sale is light years ahead of any version of Winckowski or Crawford…

 

Yes. Better than any version of Winckowski or Crawford that I can even imagine. They are 4th starters at best.

[Old Red]

I think this is our 9th game, today. If our 6 starters were each given a start from day one, maybe Sale would normally have started game 6. Starting game 9 is only being pushed back maybe 3 days, not a week or more.

 

It's as easy as 3-2-1.

 

Who are the six starters? Bello, and Whit who were to be haven’t pitched, and Kluber has gone twice.

[moonslav59]

2019 Sale started slow but then hit an elite level run for a while. I’d be ok with that. 2019 Sale is light years ahead of any version of Winckowski or Crawford…

 

Although his 2019 ERA was 4.40, his FIP was 3.39.

 

13.3 K/9 (career 11.1)

2.3 BB/9 (2.1 career)

5.9 K/BB (5.3 career)

7.5 H/9 (7.3 career)

1.089 WHIP (1.042 career)

1.5 HR/9 (1.0 career)

 

Most are not far from career totals, except ERA and HR/9.

 

Also, .696 OPSA vs .628 career is pretty significant. n.696 is not all that bad. We'd want a hitter benched, if he hit that.

[mvp 78]

Sale ERA 2019:

Mar/Apr 6.30

May 2.82

June 2.73

July 5.86

Aug 5.40

 

3/28 - 4/22: 8.50 ERA

4/23-6/15: 2.24 ERA

6/16-8/13: 5.84 ERA

[moonslav59]

Who are the six starters? Bello, and Whit who were to be haven’t pitched, and Kluber has gone twice.

 

The original 6 SP'ers for the 26 were: Sale, Kluber, Whitlock (hurt), Paxton, Pivetta and Bello (hurt).

 

Whitlock, Bello and Sale have not pitched in one or more of our 9 games- 2 due to injuries and Sale due to manager's choice.

 

Other SP'ers "in the mix" who have pitched are Houck, Wink, Crawford, Walter, Murphy and Mata.

 

It's not like no other SP'ers are getting time.

 

Look, there was certainly time to squeeze Sale into one of the first 9 games, and they chose not to do so, but I'm not sure saying he was "pushed back a week" is an accurate statement. One could say, they just gave 8 others a look, first:

 

IP/Gm in ST

 

5.0/2 Craw

5.0/2 Wink

4.2/2 Kluber

3.0/2 Walter

2.2/2 Murphy

2.0/2 Mata

1.2/1 Houck

1.2/1 Paxton (got hurt)

 

6 SP'ers have pitched in 2 games before Sale has pitched 1, so it does look like he has been given more time to prepare for his first game action. I don't disagree. I'm just not sure about saying a "week off." I'm not trying to make a big deal over this, but I don't see him starting game 10 as being a big issue or a sign of "babying."

 

Let's see how they treat him, going forward. If he's ready to start one of the first 5 games of the season, I'll have no issues with the way they handled him- "babying" or not.

 

With Whitlock, Paxton and Bello likely starting the season on the IL or bench, we need Sale in the starting 5 to begin the season.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Sale ERA 2019:

Mar/Apr 6.30

May 2.82

June 2.73

July 5.86

Aug 5.40

 

3/28 - 4/22: 8.50 ERA

4/23-6/15: 2.24 ERA

6/16-8/13: 5.84 ERA

 

That good stretch was a pretty long 11 starts. I'm choosing to think that is something he may return to, but it's hard to know.

 

I hope it's not just wishful thinking, but like Red, I'm not counting on anything, as of now.

[mvp 78]

That good stretch was a pretty long 11 starts. I'm choosing to think that is something he may return to, but it's hard to know.

 

I hope it's not just wishful thinking, but like Red, I'm not counting on anything, as of now.

 

Good stretches include a combination of good output and good luck. Easy to keep that luck up over only 11 games.

[moonslav59]

Good stretches include a combination of good output and good luck. Easy to keep that luck up over only 11 games.

 

Certainly luck could have been involved on the good stretches or the bad.

 

His high K rate was encouraging.

 

The velo charts are more concerning to me:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/chris-sale/10603/graphs?pitchgraphs=true&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&start=2014&end=2022&rtype=mult&gt1=15&dStatArray=FA&ymin=&ymax=

[mvp 78]

Certainly luck could have been involved on the good stretches or the bad.

 

His high K rate was encouraging.

 

The velo charts are more concerning to me:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/chris-sale/10603/graphs?pitchgraphs=true&statArr=&legend=1&split=base&time=daily&start=2014&end=2022&rtype=mult>1=15&dStatArray=FA&ymin=&ymax=

 

2018 seems to be an abberration too? He was throwing harder than he ever had before and then bam... injury. I think a 93-95 velo would be fine. If it's lower? He'll just need to learn to adjust. We know that in early 2019, Cora went slow with the starters and their performance showed it.

[mvp 78]

@BeyondtheMnstr

Alex Cora provided another update on James Paxton and Connor Wong today:

 

"Just getting better. Treatment wise, they are doing a little more stuff. Pax from his knees threw yesterday. Wong has been running in the pool. He did a few agility drills yesterday. Better than what we expected but we have to be cautious about it."

[mvp 78]

1st inning for Sale:

single

force out

fly out

k

[mvp 78]

1st inning for Sale:

single

force out

fly out

k

 

velo is 93-95, k was 96

 

https://twitter.com/tylermilliken_/status/1632807647899537410

[mvp 78]

Justin Turner hit in head by a pitch. Taken out of the game.

[moonslav59]

2018 seems to be an abberration too?

 

Where did you get “aberration” from. I was just responding to you saying maybe luck was involved.

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

Awful, awful scene with Justin Turner getting hit in the face by a Matt Manning pitch. He was immediately gushing blood while going down to the dirt. He was able to stand up and walk off the field while escorted by a trainer.