Story has surgery

[notin]

Our doctors seem to be the medical equivalent of "Wave 'em in Wendell"...

 

Because I would imagine team physicians are under intense pressure to make sure assets get back on the field ASAP, regardless of physiological realities…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Normal fan reaction to gaping holes in favorite team's starting line-up (and/or starting rotation and/or back-end-of-bullpen): let's go, make some moves.

 

Normal front office uses resources to acquire the best available talent.

 

Bloom Era: reported interest in all options, but only do what "makes sense," which is somehow to wait until the best players have found new homes, and only then pick off the leftovers with one year contracts.

[mvp 78]

A big question should be was what were his medicals when they signed him? I think Bloom needs to answer that.

 

You wanted him to play SS no matter what this year because that's what they signed him for.

[mvp 78]

Everything is Bloom's fault. The obsessiveness is getting astounding.

 

His arm was an issue when they signed him. That's the reason he was moved off of SS. It's the reason all along I said they shouldn't even remotely think of moving him back to SS. I'm not surprised he ended up having an issue.

[mvp 78]

This is an F if you’re trying to field a contender. Everyone can see it.

 

If the goal is to avoid potential albatross contracts, maybe a B?

 

I mean, they clearly aren't. They are trying to win another 77 - 83 games.

[mvp 78]

The obvious question is whether Story's flexor strain in 2021 was a red flag that shouldn't have been ignored.

 

But our medical staff cleared Sale and they cleared Story. $285 million later...

 

CRACK medical staff.

[mvp 78]

Normal fan reaction to gaping holes in favorite team's starting line-up (and/or starting rotation and/or back-end-of-bullpen): let's go, make some moves.

 

Normal front office uses resources to acquire the best available talent.

 

Bloom Era: reported interest in all options, but only do what "makes sense," which is somehow to wait until the best players have found new homes, and only then pick off the leftovers with one year contracts.

 

My guess:

 

2B: They run out Arroyo

SS: They get Iggy or another cheap option as a stop gap, Mayer rakes and keeps raking and is pushed to MLB after trade deadline ala Devers 2017

[notin]

Wondering if the Story injury means everything gets filled internally.

 

Will Ceddane Rafaela become the starting SS? Will a platoon of Enmanuel Valdez and Christian Arroyo handle 2b? (The latter does seem more likely.)

[mvp 78]

Wondering if the Story injury means everything gets filled internally.

 

Will Ceddane Rafaela become the starting SS? Will a platoon of Enmanuel Valdez and Christian Arroyo handle 2b? (The latter does seem more likely.)

 

Rafaela isn't ready today. If he becomes ready, they push him to CF and Kiké goes to SS. Arroyo just can't handle a fulltime workload.

 

At some point, we may see Rafaela in CF and Mayer at SS this season. People will say I'm crazy, but that's what I'm going with. I think Mayer's bat is more likely to be MLB ready than Rafaela's.

[moonslav59]

His arm was an issue when they signed him. That's the reason he was moved off of SS. It's the reason all along I said they shouldn't even remotely think of moving him back to SS. I'm not surprised he ended up having an issue.

 

I've been advocating signing Andrus or trading for a SS like Rojas or Crawford (SFG) all winter long. I still am.

[moonslav59]

Wondering if the Story injury means everything gets filled internally.

 

Will Ceddane Rafaela become the starting SS? Will a platoon of Enmanuel Valdez and Christian Arroyo handle 2b? (The latter does seem more likely.)

 

If Rafaela is fast-tracked, my guess is we'd see Kike at SS and Rafaela in CF.

 

Maybe, by season's end, we'll see Mayer at SS, Kike at 2B and Rafaela in CF.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Wondering if the Story injury means everything gets filled internally.

 

Will Ceddane Rafaela become the starting SS? Will a platoon of Enmanuel Valdez and Christian Arroyo handle 2b? (The latter does seem more likely.)

 

Agree with all of this, except Kike on his one-year contract plays SS, Duran/Ref platoon in CF, and Rafaela is promoted to take over center midseason.

 

What's the point of spending money on Elvis to win three more games, when 75 wins isn't much different than 72 wins...

[Bellhorn04]

Because I would imagine team physicians are under intense pressure to make sure assets get back on the field ASAP, regardless of physiological realities…

 

This is more about the examinations they do before the guy gets to sign on the dotted line, i.e. Sale and Story.

[Bellhorn04]

CRACK medical staff.

 

Everyone is entitled to be questioned on the quality of their work.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Everyone is entitled to be questioned on the quality of their work.

 

I'd like to replace entitled with liable, please. It's a fan forum, after all.

[Old Red]

You wanted him to play SS no matter what this year because that's what they signed him for.

 

Yes, that’s what I said, and one report I heard he was ramping up his throwing to play SS this year. Everyone knew he had a lot of throwing errors his last year in Colorado playing SS, because he had a bad elbow, but I hadn’t heard he was having any problems last year throwing even playing 2B, so yes I stick to what I said that he was signed to play SS, and I believe that’s where he was going to play, and that’s why the Red Sox hadn’t acquired a SS.

[S5Dewey]

I agree that a player being paid heavily to play baseball should do whatever is necessary to play baseball.

 

But surgery can complicate matters. It’s not the perfect fix a lot of us fans think it is. It can have complications, which can lead to other problems. Such as the pain killer addiction former Sox RP Bobby Jenks claimed ruined his career. In many cases, especially pitching elbows, it provides only a temporary fix. The only real guarantee from surgery is a long recovery time.

 

 

I get trying to avoid surgery. I think it gets too easy to shrug it off as a fan and assume it’s part of the job. But it really is s big deal…

 

...and this is where we differ.

 

I don't think there's any doubt that when a person plays sports of nearly any kind there's more risk to their body than there is to an average man on the street.

In my mind when a player signs that big money contract he and the owner made a pact that the owner will pay him to perform and the player agrees to perform even if that means assuming the risk of a medical procedure.

 

I agree that in a worst-case scenario there is a degree of risk in any surgery but the player is assuming that risk in exchange for the money. If you're not willing to assume that risk then don't take the money because you're not willing to hold up your end of that bargain.

[moonslav59]

Agree with all of this, except Kike on his one-year contract plays SS, Duran/Ref platoon in CF, and Rafaela is promoted to take over center midseason.

 

What's the point of spending money on Elvis to win three more games, when 75 wins isn't much different than 72 wins...

 

But 90 over 87 might matter.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree that in a worst-case scenario there is a degree of risk in any surgery but the player is assuming that risk in exchange for the money. If you're not willing to assume that risk then don't take the money because you're not willing to hold up your end of that bargain.

 

Of course in some cases the risk in surgery may be not only to the player but to the team.

[moonslav59]

This whole situation sucks.

 

I was just trying to convince myself we had a chance to improve, perhaps by a lot, this year.

 

Now, I'm thinking about Mayer, Rafaela, EValdez, Mata, Walter, Kelly, German, Murphy, Crawford and finding out once and for all if any of these guys are worth keeping around another year or more:

 

Winckowski

Seabold

Duran

Dalbec

Ort

Brasier/Taylor....

[Hugh2]

That would be silly. His elbow was a known issue. He didn’t injure it grabbing for a drumstick on Thanksgiving. A competent medical staff would have better assessed his condition and recommended this course of action earlier.

 

This is just wrong, and pure conjecture at best. I take it you have very little exposure or experience with modern medicine. A competent medical staff is going to avoid surgery with a patient. That’s just how things work, it would be on Story to push for a surgery otherwise it would be an ethics voilation to push surgery when not needed as a first line of treatment.

 

Unless you are medical doctor who has access to Story’s medical (which unless you were his doctor would be a massive HIPPA violation) stating that surgery was optimal months ago and should have been suggested then is pure 100% conjecture in your part.

[Hugh2]

I’ve herniated a disc, torn ligements and tendons (partially) and fully rehabilitated myself without surgery. Actually last year around this time I was laying in my back in my office unable to move. I could of had surgery but my doctor told me it could be avoided.

 

I did everything right, completely revolutionized how I exercised my core and made core strength a fundamental part of my routine. Just 3 weeks ago I entered the 1,0000 lb club, a feat well known in the bodybuilding community. I am happy and greatful to have avoided surgery as any person should be, but it is their personal choice. To suggest that an injury which extent is unknown to us, without any medical knowledge or actual access to his records no one can definitively say that surgery should have been recommended at an earlier time. No one, this argument should really just die right now. Plenty of legit, and real reasons to be upset with this FO.

 

Just stop people.

[notin]

This is more about the examinations they do before the guy gets to sign on the dotted line, i.e. Sale and Story.

 

I would imagine every player has issues in their physicals. Remember the foot issue that prolonged JD Martinez initial contract? The Sox did put some team protection in there for it, but they never needed it. The Dodgers have since signed JD with no such publicized language. Either because his foot healed or, more likely,it’s not so necessary on a 1 year deal.

 

With Story, the flexor strain was a known issue. But I don’t know how often or how severe it has to be to become a surgical concern. Not even sure our resident doctor knows, although his input (which I’m requesting here, Jacko) will certainly be better than mine…

[notin]

...and this is where we differ.

 

I don't think there's any doubt that when a person plays sports of nearly any kind there's more risk to their body than there is to an average man on the street.

In my mind when a player signs that big money contract he and the owner made a pact that the owner will pay him to perform and the player agrees to perform even if that means assuming the risk of a medical procedure.

 

I agree that in a worst-case scenario there is a degree of risk in any surgery but the player is assuming that risk in exchange for the money. If you're not willing to assume that risk then don't take the money because you're not willing to hold up your end of that bargain.

 

Now when players sign these deals, they have tons of activities prohibited. No skiing, for example. No motorcycles. No bicycling (yes, I mean you, Chris!)

 

Given the amount of control the team assumes over the player’s physical activities, is the choice to undergo surgery even the player’s option? Or does that decision come from the team? And if so, can the player decline and seek other treatments? Or do those require a similar level of team approval?

[Hugh2]

I agree that a player being paid heavily to play baseball should do whatever is necessary to play baseball.

 

But surgery can complicate matters. It’s not the perfect fix a lot of us fans think it is. It can have complications, which can lead to other problems. Such as the pain killer addiction former Sox RP Bobby Jenks claimed ruined his career. In many cases, especially pitching elbows, it provides only a temporary fix. The only real guarantee from surgery is a long recovery time.

 

 

I get trying to avoid surgery. I think it gets too easy to shrug it off as a fan and assume it’s part of the job. But it really is s big deal…

 

On average a person dies everyday from just basic procedures. Surgery is NEVER a guarantee and always a last resort. The debate should really just end right there.

[notin]

On average a person dies everyday from just basic procedures. Surgery is NEVER a guarantee and always a last resort. The debate should really just end right there.

 

I imagine the risk of dying during Tommy John surgery is rather low, but yes, it’s not non-existent.

 

But I would also not be surprised if the overwhelming majority of flexor strains among athletes do not result in surgery and become cured over time.

 

Of course not all do. Bryce Harper will miss several months with the exact same injury due to having surgery. Christian Vazquez also sat out a year with the same problem. But still, the number of non-pitchers dealing with elbow injuries that require surgery does seem to be very low to me…

[Hugh2]

I imagine the risk of dying during Tommy John surgery is rather low, but yes, it’s not non-existent.

 

But I would also not be surprised if the overwhelming majority of flexor strains among athletes do not result in surgery and become cured over time.

 

Of course not all do. Bryce Harper will miss several months with the exact same injury due to having surgery. Christian Vazquez also sat out a year with the same problem. But still, the number of non-pitchers dealing with elbow injuries that require surgery does seem to be very low to me…

 

Obviously there’s many other risks than death, and those being more likely too. Surgery is never a guarantee, ever. It’s always recommended that it be avoided. You’d think after the Bills game that more sports fans would have compassion for athletes. This is just entertainment for us but to them this is their life. To get mad at them because they tried to avoid surgery at this point in time in our country is just lack of empathy and lack of understanding of modern medicine.

[notin]

Obviously there’s many other risks than death, and those being more likely too. Surgery is never a guarantee, ever. It’s always recommended that it be avoided. You’d think after the Bills game that more sports fans would have compassion for athletes. This is just entertainment for us but to them this is their life. To get mad at them because they tried to avoid surgery at this point in time in our country is just lack of empathy and lack of understanding of modern medicine.

 

I think in this case there’s a lot of justified fan frustration.

 

Sale, for example, took forever to get TJ surgery and missed a lot of time he really didn’t need to had he decided (or the team decided, not sure who makes the call) to have it earlier.

 

And Story now appears to be on a similar track just after the Sox decided to part ways with Bogaerts.

[Old Red]

Story Land is closed until further notice due to upkeep, and repairs.

[a700hitter]

Story’s elbow and deteriorating arm strength was a known issue. If we want to absolve the incompetent medical team from improperly addressing the issue in a timely fashion should Bloom also be absolved for not planning to fill the SS hole by resigning Bogey or one of the other top shelf SS’s? There are a lot of excuses going around for this last place organization.