Devers signs 11 year $331 million extension

[Old Red]

It is speculation, but Devers has pretty good footwork and range. His main issue is throwing, so it seems like he would be an immediate upgrade on D over Casas at 1B.

 

Without adding a plus defender at 3B, it would not really be worth it.

 

Moving Casas to DH logjams LF with Yoshida, Duran and Refsnyder all better suited for LF or DH.

 

Playing one in CF makes that important slot worse.

Once again the mess that Bloom has created.

[moonslav59]

Once again the mess that Bloom has created.

 

Huh?

 

Bloom inherited Devers and Casas.

 

You have been for trading and not extending those two?

 

I know you disliked the Yoshida signing, and you will never let us forget it.

[Old Red]

Huh?

 

Bloom inherited Devers and Casas.

 

You have been for trading and not extending those two?

 

I know you disliked the Yoshida signing, and you will never let us forget it.

 

Like I keep saying Raffy, Casas, and Yoshida are what they are, which are hitters, but not good defensive players, and I’d be shocked if Bloom traded either Casas, or Yoshida, so in other words the Red Sox are stuck with them. I wasn’t against signing Yoshida as much as the contract amount.

[mvp 78]

Like I keep saying Raffy, Casas, and Yoshida are what they are, which are hitters, but not good defensive players, and I’d be shocked if Bloom traded either Casas, or Yoshida, so in other words the Red Sox are stuck with them. I wasn’t against signing Yoshida as much as the contract amount.

 

Sox are a big market and should act like it. They should be able to pay guys they like.

[Old Red]

Sox are a big market and should act like it. They should be able to pay guys they like.

 

Yes they should, but I’d rather see more money put into the rotation.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Raffy is Raffy -- he's in his prime and though he has improved since he was 20, he's still wildly inconsistent -- compared to all other third baseman in the majors. Since he came to the bigs in 2017, Devers is dead last in Fangraphs' Defensive Runs Saved. Arenado and Chapman are tied for first, with 91 DRS... Raffy is -50... negative Five-Oh in Defensive Runs SLEIGHED.

 

 

But it's not like guys playing their first full season in the MLB like Casas or Yoshida can't improve on D. Remember, when Boggs came up, he was also known as good-hit, no-field -- but he worked hard in practice, and became a Gold Glover. Rice wasn't too hot a leftfielder, either, at first, but he finally mastered the Monster after a million Pesky fungoes a day.

[mvp 78]

It's not that Raffy is the worst 3B in the league, it's just that his bat is great enough to keep him in the lineup everyday. The other bad fielding 3b's get sent back to AAA or moved to parttime roles at least.

 

(Segura and JD Davis are all worse than Raffy this year per DRS. In 2021 when Devers was -13, Bohm and Dozier were as bad or worse since they played in far fewer innings.)

Edited August 22, 2023 by mvp 78

[Old Red]

It's not that Raffy is the worst 3B in the league, it's just that his bat is great enough to keep him in the lineup everyday. The other bad fielding 3b's get sent back to AAA or moved to parttime roles at least.

 

The maddening part is that Raffy can look good one minute, and bad the next. If he could just get more consistently good he could be salvaged, but so far he has not.

[Bellhorn04]

Raffy is Raffy -- he's in his prime and though he has improved since he was 20, he's still wildly inconsistent -- compared to all other third baseman in the majors. Since he came to the bigs in 2017, Devers is dead last in Fangraphs' Defensive Runs Saved. Arenado and Chapman are tied for first, with 91 DRS... Raffy is -50... negative Five-Oh in Defensive Runs SLEIGHED.

 

 

But it's not like guys playing their first full season in the MLB like Casas or Yoshida can't improve on D. Remember, when Boggs came up, he was also known as good-hit, no-field -- but he worked hard in practice, and became a Gold Glover. Rice wasn't too hot a leftfielder, either, at first, but he finally mastered the Monster after a million Pesky fungoes a day.

 

And Casas seems like a disciplined guy based on his offensive approach. I agree he should improve.

[moonslav59]

Like I keep saying Raffy, Casas, and Yoshida are what they are, which are hitters, but not good defensive players, and I’d be shocked if Bloom traded either Casas, or Yoshida, so in other words the Red Sox are stuck with them. I wasn’t against signing Yoshida as much as the contract amount.

 

But you also keep saying Bloom is responsible for things like having flawed inherited players on the roster

[Bellhorn04]

The maddening part is that Raffy can look good one minute, and bad the next. If he could just get more consistently good he could be salvaged, but so far he has not.

 

It's funny, you'd think throwing the ball accurately to first would be easier than fielding it. But it's often the throwing that causes the most problems.

[notin]

Raffy is Raffy -- he's in his prime and though he has improved since he was 20, he's still wildly inconsistent -- compared to all other third baseman in the majors. Since he came to the bigs in 2017, Devers is dead last in Fangraphs' Defensive Runs Saved. Arenado and Chapman are tied for first, with 91 DRS... Raffy is -50... negative Five-Oh in Defensive Runs SLEIGHED.

 

 

But it's not like guys playing their first full season in the MLB like Casas or Yoshida can't improve on D. Remember, when Boggs came up, he was also known as good-hit, no-field -- but he worked hard in practice, and became a Gold Glover. Rice wasn't too hot a leftfielder, either, at first, but he finally mastered the Monster after a million Pesky fungoes a day.

 

But not for Boston

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But not for Boston

 

Boggs looked pretty good at third as a Red Sox his last few years. I also had younger eyes back then.

[mvp 78]

It's funny, you'd think throwing the ball accurately to first would be easier than fielding it. But it's often the throwing that causes the most problems.

 

And the broadcasts note that he does better with the quick throws rather than the ones he has time to think about.

[moonslav59]

It's funny, you'd think throwing the ball accurately to first would be easier than fielding it. But it's often the throwing that causes the most problems.

 

61 out of 125 career errors at 3B seems very out of whack.

 

The way scoring has changed, recently, I do think he should have more glove errors than 64, but still...

 

I think he'd be a plus 1Bman is a few short weeks or months.

[Bellhorn04]

And the broadcasts note that he does better with the quick throws rather than the ones he has time to think about.

 

The yips are no joke.

[Old Red]

But you also keep saying Bloom is responsible for things like having flawed inherited players on the roster

 

Pick, pick, pick. This is Bloom’s 4th year now, so I think the inherited card has expired. Did Bloom inherit the 1B situation last year, or putting a 2B out in the toughest RF in the majors. Did Bloom inherit the SS experiment with Kike at SS this year. This team has had bad defense, and bad base running for 2 years now. Is that all inherited? Bloom started the year last year without any reliable backend of the BP. Was that all inherited? No someone before him got him Casas, and Raffy.

[moonslav59]

Pick, pick, pick. This is Bloom’s 4th year now, so I think the inherited card has expired. Did Bloom inherit the 1B situation last year, or putting a 2B out in the toughest RF in the majors. Did Bloom inherit the SS experiment with Kike at SS this year. This team has had bad defense, and bad base running for 2 years now. Is that all inherited? Bloom started the year last year without any reliable backend of the BP. Was that all inherited? No someone before him got him Casas, and Raffy.

 

I didn't choose 2 DD players to blame Bloom for. You did.

[Old Red]

I didn't choose 2 DD players to blame Bloom for. You did.

 

What about all the other things I mentioned? If Raffy is so bad on D maybe Bloom shouldn’t have given him so much money. Bloom is not to blame for Raffy, and Casas D, but he put together the rest of the team that leads to the totality of the D, and that was not inherited.

[moonslav59]

What about all the other things I mentioned? If Raffy is so bad on D maybe Bloom shouldn’t have given him so much money. Bloom is not to blame for Raffy, and Casas D, but he put together the rest of the team that leads to the totality of the D, and that was not inherited.

 

I just responded to your blaming Bloom for 3 guys when 2 were inherited. I never heard you saying we should trade Devers and Casas.

 

The rest of the team is another issue, but moving the goalpost is what you like to do.

 

BTW, I love the Martin, Jansen, Turner and like the Duvall, Yoshida and Urais additions. You don't?

 

I hate the Kluber and Mondesi additions.

 

On the D, the Story signing helped the D, but he got hurt. It also forced a good defensive CF'er to play SS.

He added Mondesi, Chang, Reyes and Urias- all good defenders.

He added Duval and Dugo- our two best defensive OF'er.

Yes, he added Yoshida, a bad defender in LF, which is an easily hideable slot, with the idea he would DH after Turner left.

 

He inherited Devers, Casas, Duran, Dalbec and other poor defenders.

 

Your point, now is that he should have traded or not extended them?

 

[dgalehouse]

Those are two big reasons.

 

Also players are bigger and stronger now. Players start younger now. And play all year round now. The proliferation of youth and travel baseball has helped. Inceased talent pool as more countries contribute players. (How many Japanese players did Drysdale face again? Heck, how many Dominicans?)

 

Or we could believe a bunch of white guys born in the 1930s and 40s were just flat out genetically superior at baseball through some freakish evolutionary quirk…

 

I don't think kid's travel teams have much effect. Not too many kids are doing that. Years ago boys played baseball every day all summer. In some cases , all year round . If not baseball , they were playing some form of it , softball, stickball, wiffle ball or just playing catch, throwing the ball around. They became proficient and knowledgable in the game. It's not like that today. There is absolutely more talented foreign players than ever before , but too many American kids have other things they prefer doing. I wouldn't necessarily say the sport is watered down however. There is still a lot of talent.

[Old Red]

I just responded to your blaming Bloom for 3 guys when 2 were inherited. I never heard you saying we should trade Devers and Casas.

 

The rest of the team is another issue, but moving the goalpost is what you like to do.

 

BTW, I love the Martin, Jansen, Turner and like the Duvall, Yoshida and Urais additions. You don't?

 

I hate the Kluber and Mondesi additions.

 

On the D, the Story signing helped the D, but he got hurt. It also forced a good defensive CF'er to play SS.

He added Mondesi, Chang, Reyes and Urias- all good defenders.

He added Duval and Dugo- our two best defensive OF'er.

Yes, he added Yoshida, a bad defender in LF, which is an easily hideable slot, with the idea he would DH after Turner left.

 

He inherited Devers, Casas, Duran, Dalbec and other poor defenders.

 

Your point, now is that he should have traded or not extended them?

 

 

Where did I say about trading anyone? I didn’t. I’m not the one who suggested a trade for Casas, or Yoshida. I’ve been saying right along they are what they are, and I’d be shocked if any were traded, because it’s not in Bloom’s DNA, and the Red Sox were stuck with them. I never said anything about not extending Raffy either. I said if he’s so bad on D maybe they shouldn’t have giving him so much Money. You love Jansen, and Martin? Yes great pickups, but I said they needed him, before last year even started, and you said he was too expensive. For the last two years of the Bloom regime this team has looked way too often like a bunch of Little Leaguers on D, and running the bases. Must of been inherited. Move the goal post? You bet! I’m ready for some ND football.

[moonslav59]

Where did I say about trading anyone?

 

Yes, that's my point.

 

You blame Bloom for playing inherited players who are better than anyone else, but were not for trading them.

 

You don't see the point being made?

[Old Red]

Yes, that's my point.

 

You blame Bloom for playing inherited players who are better than anyone else, but were not for trading them.

 

You don't see the point being made?

To you it’s all about Blaming Bloom, but the point I was making was the totality of the makeup of the team makes for the bad defense. I mentioned Raffy, and Casas, because they have been mentioned so much lately. I’m sorry for picking on poor Bloom.

[notin]

I don't think kid's travel teams have much effect. Not too many kids are doing that. Years ago boys played baseball every day all summer. In some cases , all year round . If not baseball , they were playing some form of it , softball, stickball, wiffle ball or just playing catch, throwing the ball around. They became proficient and knowledgable in the game. It's not like that today. There is absolutely more talented foreign players than ever before , but too many American kids have other things they prefer doing. I wouldn't necessarily say the sport is watered down however. There is still a lot of talent.

 

Twenty years ago, not many kids played travel ball. Back when it was reserved for elite players. But there are literally hundreds of teams and various levels now. It’s taken off a lot…

[notin]

It's funny, you'd think throwing the ball accurately to first would be easier than fielding it. But it's often the throwing that causes the most problems.

 

Why?

 

On those throws, the guy throwing the ball wants the first baseman to catch it. He’s doing everything within his power to make catching his throw as easy as possible.

 

Hitters are not so considerate with batted balls. In fact - complete opposite…

[moonslav59]

To you it’s all about Blaming Bloom, but the point I was making was the totality of the makeup of the team makes for the bad defense. I mentioned Raffy, and Casas, because they have been mentioned so much lately. I’m sorry for picking on poor Bloom.

 

When you and others keep naming Bloom when talking about DD players, it raises a flag.

 

I am with you and others on many of his mistakes and blunders that actually relate to him.

[moonslav59]

To you it’s all about Blaming Bloom, but the point I was making was the totality of the makeup of the team makes for the bad defense. I mentioned Raffy, and Casas, because they have been mentioned so much lately. I’m sorry for picking on poor Bloom.

 

I'm fine talking about Raffy and Casas and their issues with defense. I just was curious why you blame Bloom for them.

 

You went out of your way to say it was his fault.

 

It's you who is "all about blaming Bloom."

 

If you stop blaming him for things out of his control, you'd hardly hear a peep from me about "blaming Bloom."

 

I blame him for plenty. Things he's actually responsible for doing.

[illinoisredsox]

Pitches not only threw a lot more innings, but a lot more pitches with less time between starts. It doesn’t seem there was anywhere near as many arm problems back in the old days.

 

There were plenty of arm problems back then; we just didn't know about them. Guys just disappeared. We tend to remember the Gibsons, Marichals and Seavers who seemingly pitched forever. But as great as Koufax was, he was done at age 30 due to an arthritic elbow.

 

When Bruce Suter had his arm go out at the end of his long career, people kept saying how sorry they were for him. He said one of the classiest things I've ever heard. He said something to the effect of don't feel sorry for me, I had 15 great years (or whatever it was). Feel sorry for the kid in A ball who blew his arm out and will never get a shot.

[illinoisredsox]

One culprit is the growing proliferation of the slider and the damage it does to the elbow.

 

Increased velocity is an issue as well, especially at an early age. Lucas Giolito, for example, was throwing 98-100mph in high school and had TJ before he graduated. But higher radar gun readings lead to scholarships and signing bonuses so pitchers try to max out early on. It’s not like Giolito (and many others) needed to throw 98mph to get high school hitters out…

 

 

 

I agree. The max effort thing is a big deal. Guys back in the day didn't max out every pitch. Nolan Ryan could throw 103+, but he only did that when he needed to ramp it up, a few times a game. It wasn't every fastball he threw. Ditto most successful pitchers back then.

 

Too much breaking stuff too early as well. A kid with the talent to make it to the majors doesn't need a breaking ball as a 12 year old, and he sure as heck doesn't need a slider as high schooler. Plus to try and throw that hard, kids develop all sorts of bad fundamentals. Ryan was a scientific miracle, but he also had flawless mechanics. You what happens to the guys who can actually hit those kids a bit? They are the guys who get drafted.

 

A lot of that is simply asset management. If you invest $250mill in a pitcher for 8 years, you don’t want him to blow out his arm and miss two or three of them through straight up overwork. (Think Price and Sale.) Also having 8 man bullpens makes this much easier nowadays…

 

This is a huge reason.