Devers next deal

[notin]

If they trade Devers for a pretty good haul and sign Correa and Senga, you are still a goner?

 

Many look back at the Betts trade as a total disaster, but at the time, Verdugo was looking very good and had 5 years of control to one of Betts, and Downs was pretty highly rated prospects. Wong was a flyer.

 

Just because Dugo's improvement stalled, and Downs has pretty much sucked, on offense, anyway, doesn't mean the plan.idea sucked, or that the next trade won't work out much better.

 

Beating a dead horse again, but won't Dugo's 5 years, at least match Bett's one year in value?

 

The Sox shed over $40mill in payroll in the Betts deal, which was the entire point. I don’t think getting back as many good prospects as possible was the priority. If it was, the Sox wouldn’t have attached Price and might have even paid some of Betts’ salary.

 

Anyone still complaining about what the Sox got for Betts clearly thinks this is just like Fantasy Baseball…

[notin]

I think Bloom did OK on the trade, but that's not the point.

 

Betts has an AAV of $29 mill (they finally adjusted for the deferred money), and he had an fWAR of 6.6 this year.

 

I think the Dodgers are more than happy with the swap of Dugo for Betts.

 

But if they didn’t extend him, he would have left two years ago. His stats are irrelevant to that swap just like how we don’t compare Sale to Kopech as an evaluation of that deal…

[Bellhorn04]

But if they didn’t extend him, he would have left two years ago. His stats are irrelevant to that swap just like how we don’t compare Sale to Kopech as an evaluation of that deal…

 

Please understand, my complaints about Betts are not with Bloom, they're with Krampus.

[moonslav59]

I think Bloom did OK on the trade, but that's not the point.

 

Betts has an AAV of $29 mill (they finally adjusted for the deferred money), and he had an fWAR of 6.6 this year.

 

I think the Dodgers are more than happy with the swap of Dugo for Betts.

 

Remember, I suggested $400M/14 for Betts. It's a separate issue in some ways.

 

Again, I'd be piossed if we trade Devers for the same type of promising players we got for Betts. I was pissed when we traded Betts.

 

One big negative about the Betts (and don't forget the Price aspect) was we did not replace his contract.

 

In theory, we could have gotten Verdugo, Downs, Wong and $45M worth of AAV signings the next winter had JH not chosen to drastically cut the budget. That winter, that was enough to get:

 

Cole (36) and C Martin (7)

 

or

 

Wheeler (24) and Abreu (18)

 

How would that trade look? Maybe not as good as extending Betts, but not so bad.

 

Maybe we do replace Devers' contract, if we trade him.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

The Sox shed over $40mill in payroll in the Betts deal, which was the entire point. I don’t think getting back as many good prospects as possible was the priority. If it was, the Sox wouldn’t have attached Price and might have even paid some of Betts’ salary.

 

Anyone still complaining about what the Sox got for Betts clearly thinks this is just like Fantasy Baseball…

 

I get that. See my last post that spells out what he financial benefit could have been had Krumpus not slashed the budget.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don’t think any of us think the Sox are in on Correa. But if they go sign him, 5Gold gets nominated for the long term prediction award, calling that one 3 years ago…

 

... mainly for his connection to Cora -- and he is both younger and better at shortstop than Bogey. Plus, Correa crushes it at Fenway (the games I attended).

 

Recently, I predicted a Carlos signing in Boston would mean that neither X nor Raffy would be extended... I was thinking Correa would lead the new wave, and be a team player willing to shift around the infield when core prospects are promoted.

 

But today I've changed my tune. Now the only way to save this offseason -- for the freaking fans -- is to extend Devers and sign Correa, and then ink either Rodon, Senga or Eovaldi, and either Wacha or Kluber.

 

People will be ok with Correa and Yoshida replacing Bogaerts and JD... and because of our better bullpen, that's a better team.

[notin]

... mainly for his connection to Cora -- and he is both younger and better at shortstop than Bogey. Plus, Correa crushes it at Fenway (the games I attended).

 

Recently, I predicted a Carlos signing in Boston would mean that neither X nor Raffy would be extended... I was thinking Correa would lead the new wave, and be a team player willing to shift around the infield when core prospects are promoted.

 

But today I've changed my tune. Now the only way to save this offseason -- for the freaking fans -- is to extend Devers and sign Correa, and then ink either Rodon, Senga or Eovaldi, and either Wacha or Kluber.

 

People will be ok with Correa and Yoshida replacing Bogaerts and JD... and because of our better bullpen, that's a better team.

 

 

You need Bloom’s cell number. Also his cell phone. That way you can go into the Contacts List and change John Henry’s name to “Scam Likely”…

[moonslav59]

... mainly for his connection to Cora -- and he is both younger and better at shortstop than Bogey. Plus, Correa crushes it at Fenway (the games I attended).

 

Recently, I predicted a Carlos signing in Boston would mean that neither X nor Raffy would be extended... I was thinking Correa would lead the new wave, and be a team player willing to shift around the infield when core prospects are promoted.

 

But today I've changed my tune. Now the only way to save this offseason -- for the freaking fans -- is to extend Devers and sign Correa, and then ink either Rodon, Senga or Eovaldi, and either Wacha or Kluber.

 

People will be ok with Correa and Yoshida replacing Bogaerts and JD... and because of our better bullpen, that's a better team.

 

I'm not seeing how we reset, next year after signing all these guys to 2+ year deals.

 

We only lose Kike, Barnes and Paxton.

 

38 Correa

30 Devers

26 Sale

23 Story

23 Senga

18 Yoshida

16 Jansen

13 Kluber

8 Martin

5 Whitlock

? Dugo last arb

? Pivetta last arb

? Refsnyder last arb

? McGuire 2nd of 3 arbs

? Schreiber 1st arb

 

We'd be counting on a lot of kids to fill some major roles.

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not seeing how we reset, next year after signing all these guys to 2+ year deals.

 

We only lose Kike, Barnes and Paxton.

 

38 Correa

30 Devers

26 Sale

23 Story

23 Senga

18 Yoshida

16 Jansen

13 Kluber

8 Martin

5 Whitlock

? Dugo last arb

? Pivetta last arb

? Refsnyder last arb

? McGuire 2nd of 3 arbs

? Schreiber 1st arb

 

We'd be counting on a lot of kids to fill some major roles.

 

 

 

I think your last line has always been part of the plan -- but like I've been saying all day, I think the rest of any plan has been obliterated by public outrage the past few days.

 

If the Red Sox are not in Defcon 1, they should be.

[notin]

I think your last line has always been part of the plan -- but like I've been saying all day, I think the rest of any plan has been obliterated by public outrage the past few days.

 

If the Red Sox are not in Defcon 1, they should be.

 

 

Maybe.

 

If they never wanted Bogaerts back, isn’t this sort of what was expected?

 

I have my doubts on Correa. I do think the Sox might have gotten that much more appealing to Senga (assuming he does not hate Yoshida’s guts) but they still need to make a competitive offer.

 

But SS (or CF) remains the question. I’d recommend gloves over bats. That way if you want to upgrade at DH, you can afford to follow the recommendation of bats over gloves…

[moonslav59]

I think your last line has always been part of the plan -- but like I've been saying all day, I think the rest of any plan has been obliterated by public outrage the past few days.

 

If the Red Sox are not in Defcon 1, they should be.

 

To me, a Corea signing and not letting Devers go is more than enough to at least muffle the irate fans enough to hear themselves think.

 

I'm not sure if Swanson & Senga/Nate does the same trick

 

I won't be surprised to see Senga, Conforto/Gallo and Andrus with a Devers extension mixed in there somewhere. We reset, this year and splurge in 2024.

 

The Devers extension might be enough to keep NESN subscriptions level.

[Old Red]

Maybe.

 

If they never wanted Bogaerts back, isn’t this sort of what was expected?

 

I have my doubts on Correa. I do think the Sox might have gotten that much more appealing to Senga (assuming he does not hate Yoshida’s guts) but they still need to make a competitive offer.

 

But SS (or CF) remains the question. I’d recommend gloves over bats. That way if you want to upgrade at DH, you can afford to follow the recommendation of bats over gloves…

Your glove over bats got you JBJ last year that you praised. How did that work out?

[notin]

Your glove over bats got you JBJ last year that you praised. How did that work out?

 

So you think defense is unimportant. No surprise.

 

Again - acknowledging the budget. If the Sox only have $40mill to spend, getting a defensive player will be cheaper and allow for at least one impact pitcher like Senga. So, two points.

 

1. You only picked on part of the post, despite the fact that all parts depended on other parts

 

2. If I asked you how to complete this team with only $40mill to spend, you wouldn’t answer. We both know it.

 

Sitting back and doing nothing but criticizing other posters brings nothing to the discussion. Nothing…

[Old Red]

So you think defense is unimportant. No surprise.

 

Again - acknowledging the budget. If the Sox only have $40mill to spend, getting a defensive player will be cheaper and allow for at least one impact pitcher like Senga. So, two points.

 

1. You only picked on part of the post, despite the fact that all parts depended on other parts

 

2. If I asked you how to complete this team with only $40mill to spend, you wouldn’t answer. We both know it.

 

Sitting back and doing nothing but criticizing other posters brings nothing to the discussion. Nothing…

Where did anyone say defense is unimportant? NOBODY! You praised the JBJ trade last year, and made all kinds of excuses why he didn’t hit in Milwaukee, and that’s what I was commenting on. Boy was you wrong on that one, but don’t worry you wasn’t alone, because Bloom was right there with you.

[notin]

Where did anyone say defense is unimportant? NOBODY! You praised the JBJ trade last year, and made all kinds of excuses why he didn’t hit in Milwaukee, and that’s what I was commenting on. Boy was you wrong on that one, but don’t worry you wasn’t alone, because Bloom was right there with you.

 

Two posts up…

[notin]

To me, a Corea signing and not letting Devers go is more than enough to at least muffle the irate fans enough to hear themselves think.

 

I'm not sure if Swanson & Senga/Nate does the same trick

 

I won't be surprised to see Senga, Conforto/Gallo and Andrus with a Devers extension mixed in there somewhere. We reset, this year and splurge in 2024.

 

The Devers extension might be enough to keep NESN subscriptions level.

 

If the Sox sign Correa and extend Devers, maybe some will realize the season isn’t decided on December 9?

 

I do think they’ve did a deep hole. Not one that’s impossible to get out of, but certainly not one that’s easy to get out of, either…

[Old Red]

Two posts up…

 

Two post up says the JBJ trade that you praised didn’t work out meaning that gloves over bats doesn’t always pan out, and nothing else. Over your head a little was it?

[Old Red]

If the Sox sign Correa and extend Devers, maybe some will realize the season isn’t decided on December 9?

 

I do think they’ve did a deep hole. Not one that’s impossible to get out of, but certainly not one that’s easy to get out of, either…

Right the Red Sox are going to sign Correa for more money than Bogey got, and then pony up, and sign Raffy too.If, if, and if, but not very logical.

[moonslav59]

Right the Red Sox are going to sign Correa for more money than Bogey got, and then pony up, and sign Raffy too.If, if, and if, but not very logical.

 

Can you at least entertain the thought that maybe the Sox did not value Bogey as much as you and many here did?

 

Maybe, just maybe, they value Devers or Correa more than they did Bogey or more than you or some of us do.

 

There is some evidence that even you pointed out, earlier. You think they paid Yoshida more than what he was worth. That means they valued him more than you do and paid him more than you or some here would have. $105M was not chump change.

 

Could they value, Correa, Swanson or Devers much more than Bogey?

 

You thought they overpaid on Story and Kike. Why can't they overpay on someone else?

 

BTW, I don't think the sign Correa. Others will offer grossly overpays, but I do think they value him more than Bogey-perhaps way more and would offer way more. (I just don't think our "way more" will be enough, assuming we even make an initial, let alone final offer.)

Edited December 10, 2022 by moonslav59

[notin]

Two post up says the JBJ trade that you praised didn’t work out meaning that gloves over bats doesn’t always pan out, and nothing else. Over your head a little was it?

 

Then why the f*** did you bring it up?

 

Oh that’s right. You said it in the post. That gloves over bats failed once before, so therefore it always will.

 

 

Or it was a personal attack on my acumen.

 

The only other option is it was a stupid Strawman argument…

[Old Red]

Then why the f*** did you bring it up?

 

Oh that’s right. You said it in the post. That gloves over bats failed once before, so therefore it always will.

 

 

Or it was a personal attack on my acumen.

 

The only other option is it was a stupid Strawman argument…

 

How did you get from Glove over bats got you JBJ last year that you praised, and how did that work out get you to where you got? Once again NOBODY SAID it failed once so it always will, but that’s where you chose to take it, and then you call it a personal attack. I said JBJ didn’t work out, but never said, because of that it never would. That’s where you took it, so get mad all you want, and take your toys, and go home. Say goodnight Dick.

[Hugh2]

Holy hell what a word salad.

[moonslav59]

Say goodnight Dick.

 

That's what you always say when you know you lost the debate.

 

Why bring it up, if you don't think it applies, now?

 

I don't expect an answer- just a rehash of the poster's previously wrong positions- like that helps strengthen your position.

 

Notin's point was maybe we can get by by stregthening D at SS but making up for it by adding O at DH. How does the JBJ position he held relate to this? We did not replace renfroe's offense anywhere else, and we lost Schwarber, too.

 

It's strawman, again.

 

How many times do you make a statement and then have to follow it up with, "Where did I ever say_____?"

 

If the point about JBJ did not pertain to what you were trying to say, why bring it up?

 

If it did, then you did "say it."

 

Either way, you lose.

 

[Hugh2]

I just looked. Kike, Barnes, Paxton and guys like Brasier can be let go.

 

Maybe that's $30M. Depending on what we pay the pitcher you mention and Correa, and how we handle RF, it will be very tight.

 

I do think, by 2024, we have enough upcoming prospects to fill in several need areas at min cost. It's doable. I want Correa. I'd even be willing to go less at SP'er to get him, but we could trade for a low cost SP'er, too.

 

If we sign Correa, as much as I hate to trade Mayer, we could. It might be worth holding onto him until next winter, when his trade value could significantly increase as he becomes ML ready and is coming off a great 2023 AAA season. If he does not have a great season, maybe waiting a year would hurt the return.

 

Is anyone saying we are "in on Correa?"

 

I guess Bloom has kept pretty stealth on his recent signings. I heard very little about any Sox interest in Yoshida, Jansen or Martin, until boom, they are signed. A few little mentions but nothing close to "heavy talking."

 

I understand why people so otherwise, but there is zero law against signing Correa and not trading Mayer.

[moonslav59]

Holy hell what a word salad.

 

What cracks me up, and I am literally laughing, right now, is the statement "Say Goodnight Dick" is exactly like taking your toys and going home, or wanting to end the discussion, right now.

[moonslav59]

I understand why people so otherwise, but there is zero law against signing Correa and not trading Mayer.

 

I'd be all for signing Correa and trading Mayer for Lopez and Berti.

 

Now, that's a team to get excited about. We might even have enough money to add a decent DH/RF'er.

[a700hitter]

Winning the argument and losing the season is what some would call a Pyrrhic victory.

[cp176]

there is an old saying - fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. It is really quite difficult for me to imagine how anyone can expect the Red Sox to all of a sudden come to their senses and actually sign a wonderfully talented home grown talent. They might even peddle the same old garbage about doing everything they can do to sign him. I'm not buying that line again. the way Bloom has played things, the best thing that he could do would be to trade him at some point.

[Bellhorn04]

there is an old saying - fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. It is really quite difficult for me to imagine how anyone can expect the Red Sox to all of a sudden come to their senses and actually sign a wonderfully talented home grown talent. They might even peddle the same old garbage about doing everything they can do to sign him. I'm not buying that line again. the way Bloom has played things, the best thing that he could do would be to trade him at some point.

 

I think it's also quite possible that Devers becomes disenchanted with the process of dealing with the Sox front office, and the state of the team, and just breaks off negotiations, knowing he's in line for a huge payday after 2023.

[cp176]

I think it's also quite possible that Devers becomes disenchanted with the process of dealing with the Sox front office, and the state of the team, and just breaks off negotiations, knowing he's in line for a huge payday after 2023.

 

As close as he is to X, this would not be a surprise to me at all. Losing the clubhouse is a distinct possibility as well. This isn't strat-o-matic baseball where overall attitude doesn't have to be considered. I will always be a fan of the team but likely not management the way things have gone for awhile now.