2023 Free Agents

[a700hitter]

McGuire for Diekman was absolutely not a wash, and it doesn’t matter who brought in Diekman. He dumped a player whom wasn’t working out and brought in one who has so far. That was absolutely a good trade.

 

I think it’s too early to give up on Winckowski. He still could be a solid contributor, but he doesn’t look like a starter right now.

 

And German is up next to prove something…

Diekman was his key pickup in the off season. He bombed. That is why it was a wash getting McGuire.

[mvp 78]

I could handle 15 DRS from a ninth hitting sub-.600 OPS shortstop…

 

Even with a 15 DRS, he wasn't worth 1 fWAR. I don't know. People didn't enjoy a poor hitting JBJ.

[a700hitter]

Are there any Red Sox fans who don't expect at least equal value back in the context of trades?

 

None of Bloom's major trades have added significant longterm talent to the Red Sox. Getting McGuire for Diekman was a wash, since Diekman was Bloom's fault in the first place. It was great Schwarber helped them make a run, but he obviously wasn't valued enough to be part of the core going forward.

 

I still have hope for the Vazquez and Renfroe returns. I have absolutely none for the Benintendi garbage haul. I like Verdugo, because he helped get rid of Price, but Dugie will have to buy a ticket to visit the Hall of Fame to see Mookie's plaque someday.

]I fixed your post. See above.

[moonslav59]

Diekman was his key pickup in the off season. He bombed. That is why it was a wash getting McGuire.

 

It doesn't make the trade not a good one.

 

He gets dinged for a bad signing and a plus for the trade. Overall, it was still a net plus, as we have McGuire for several more years and only had to pay 1/3 of Diekman's 2 year deal.

[notin]

Even with a 15 DRS, he wasn't worth 1 fWAR. I don't know. People didn't enjoy a poor hitting JBJ.

 

I didn’t mind JBJ. Until the pitchers all went on the IL in early July, the Sox had a winning record…

[mvp 78]

I didn’t mind JBJ. Until the pitchers all went on the IL in early July, the Sox had a winning record…

 

If JBJ wasn't 12M, maybe it's not an issue?

 

If they can sign him for cheap money, I'm not opposed to the idea. If he's still the 20 wRC+ guy through Memorial Day and the glove isn't making up for it, just move on. It's not like Elvis Andrus really guarantees the Sox a hot bat.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

McGuire for Diekman was absolutely not a wash, and it doesn’t matter who brought in Diekman. He dumped a player whom wasn’t working out and brought in one who has so far. That was absolutely a good trade.

 

I think it’s too early to give up on Winckowski. He still could be a solid contributor, but he doesn’t look like a starter right now.

 

And German is up next to prove something…

 

If you consider McGuire -- a career back-up -- "significant longterm talent" -- power to people right on.

 

When I see regulars from the greatest team in franchise history traded, I'm also not hoping for guys who might contribute, like Winckowski.

[notin]

If JBJ wasn't 12M, maybe it's not an issue?

 

If they can sign him for cheap money, I'm not opposed to the idea. If he's still the 20 wRC+ guy through Memorial Day and the glove isn't making up for it, just move on. It's not like Elvis Andrus really guarantees the Sox a hot bat.

 

Exactly.

 

At this point in the off-season, the Sox are not getting a shortstop with even average offense and defense. Getting one who excels defensively and whose offensive shortcomings can be buried at the bottom of the lineup is best case.

 

And I don’t suspect Simmons will cost much more than even Arroyo. He’d be cheap enough to bench every so often…

[Bellhorn04]

Exactly.

 

At this point in the off-season, the Sox are not getting a shortstop with even average offense and defense. Getting one who excels defensively and whose offensive shortcomings can be buried at the bottom of the lineup is best case.

 

And I don’t suspect Simmons will cost much more than even Arroyo. He’d be cheap enough to bench every so often…

 

Andrus was plus on both O and D last year.

[notin]

If you consider McGuire -- a career back-up -- "significant longterm talent" -- power to people right on.

 

When I see regulars from the greatest team in franchise history traded, I'm also not hoping for guys who might contribute, like Winckowski.

 

I never said McGuire was significant anything, just that he was better than Diekman.

 

I’d like to have gotten more for Benintendi, but he was not exactly helping his trade value. Had the Sox kept him, would the team have ever acquired Renfroe? Or, as I thought at the time, platooned the two?

[harmony]

Andrus was plus on both O and D last year.

At this point Elvis Andrus may be a near-perfect fit for the Red Sox and his agent knows that. The Sox may need Andrus more than Andrus needs the Sox.

 

Can't blame Andrus and his agent for holding out for the best deal.

[mvp 78]

Exactly.

 

At this point in the off-season, the Sox are not getting a shortstop with even average offense and defense. Getting one who excels defensively and whose offensive shortcomings can be buried at the bottom of the lineup is best case.

 

And I don’t suspect Simmons will cost much more than even Arroyo. He’d be cheap enough to bench every so often…

 

He signed for 10.5M in '21 and 4M in '22. Must be even cheaper in '23.

[mvp 78]

At this point Elvis Andrus may be a near-perfect fit for the Red Sox and his agent knows that. The Sox may need Andrus more than Andrus needs the Sox.

 

Can't blame Andrus and his agent for holding out for the best deal.

 

Andrus could retire and it wouldn't impact the Red Sox at all. If he wants multiple years, the answer is no.

[a700hitter]

It doesn't make the trade not a good one.

 

He gets dinged for a bad signing and a plus for the trade. Overall, it was still a net plus, as we have McGuire for several more years and only had to pay 1/3 of Diekman's 2 year deal.

pretty close to a wash.

[notin]

At this point Elvis Andrus may be a near-perfect fit for the Red Sox and his agent knows that. The Sox may need Andrus more than Andrus needs the Sox.

 

Can't blame Andrus and his agent for holding out for the best deal.

 

Certainly he’s holding out for the best deal, but how many teams are looking at Andrus?

 

Boston is rumored to be. Anyone else? Atlanta makes sense, but are they?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I never said McGuire was significant anything, just that he was better than Diekman.

 

I’d like to have gotten more for Benintendi, but he was not exactly helping his trade value. Had the Sox kept him, would the team have ever acquired Renfroe? Or, as I thought at the time, platooned the two?

 

The whole Beni deal just seemed unnecessary, because if it wasn't, it can be considered an indictment of the whole Bloom Era.

 

My thoughts at the time of the Beni trade: 1. why sell low? 2. Beni is due for a few million more in arb, so we're dumping him? 3. Since when can't the Boston Red Sox afford a couple mil for a starting position player?

 

Then at the time of the Renfroe deal: 1. we're doing this again, because now he's due for a raise? 2. I know this isn't because they expect JBJ to replace 30 HRs-90 RBI, so Bloom must be taking on his contract for ... 3. Binelas and Hamilton -- power and speed; ok, hope one makes it soon.

 

And now, the same winter the White Sox give Beni the largest contract in franchise history (around twice Renfroe's AAV), the Red Sox sign a guy who's never had an MLB at bat... for more money. Man, a lot is riding on Yoshida for Bloom.

[harmony]

Certainly he’s holding out for the best deal, but how many teams are looking at Andrus?

 

Boston is rumored to be. Anyone else? Atlanta makes sense, but are they?

It takes only two suitors to keep the bidding going:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/01/which-teams-make-the-most-sense-for-elvis-andrus.htmlAdalberto Mondesí

 

Adalberto Mondesí it is!

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by harmony

[mvp 78]

Certainly he’s holding out for the best deal, but how many teams are looking at Andrus?

 

Boston is rumored to be. Anyone else? Atlanta makes sense, but are they?

 

1. Jon Morosi of MLB Network recently suggested the Sox would like to bring Andrus aboard as a non-roster invitee. LOL

2. Diamondbacks need a SS.

3. ChiSox need a 2b and Andrus said he'd be willing to play 2B next to Anderson.

4. Angels could be a fit.

5. Depth: Braves, Rockies

[mvp 78]

The whole Beni deal just seemed unnecessary, because if it wasn't, it can be considered an indictment of the whole Bloom Era.

 

My thoughts at the time of the Beni trade: 1. why sell low? 2. Beni is due for a few million more in arb, so we're dumping him? 3. Since when can't the Boston Red Sox afford a couple mil for a starting position player?

 

Then at the time of the Renfroe deal: 1. we're doing this again, because now he's due for a raise? 2. I know this isn't because they expect JBJ to replace 30 HRs-90 RBI, so Bloom must be taking on his contract for ... 3. Binelas and Hamilton -- power and speed; ok, hope one makes it soon.

 

And now, the same winter the White Sox give Beni the largest contract in franchise history (around twice Renfroe's AAV), the Red Sox sign a guy who's never had an MLB at bat... for more money. Man, a lot is riding on Yoshida for Bloom.

 

I agree on the Beni/Renfroe deja vu and questioning both decisions.

 

From all reports, Sox scouts have drooled over Yoshida for years. Bloom jumped at the chance to get their guy. Let's see if it works out.

[a700hitter]

I agree on the Beni/Renfroe deja vu and questioning both decisions.

 

From all reports, Sox scouts have drooled over Yoshida for years. Bloom jumped at the chance to get their guy. Let's see if it works out.

And Bloom blew away the market for Yoshida.

[mvp 78]

And Bloom blew away the market for Yoshida.

 

If he's the guy, you don't let the market develop.

[moonslav59]

pretty close to a wash.

 

Depends how McGuire does.

 

Trading Diekman without giving any money was a good trade with no return.

[moonslav59]

The whole Beni deal just seemed unnecessary, because if it wasn't, it can be considered an indictment of the whole Bloom Era.

 

My thoughts at the time of the Beni trade: 1. why sell low? 2. Beni is due for a few million more in arb, so we're dumping him? 3. Since when can't the Boston Red Sox afford a couple mil for a starting position player?

 

Then at the time of the Renfroe deal: 1. we're doing this again, because now he's due for a raise? 2. I know this isn't because they expect JBJ to replace 30 HRs-90 RBI, so Bloom must be taking on his contract for ... 3. Binelas and Hamilton -- power and speed; ok, hope one makes it soon.

 

And now, the same winter the White Sox give Beni the largest contract in franchise history (around twice Renfroe's AAV), the Red Sox sign a guy who's never had an MLB at bat... for more money. Man, a lot is riding on Yoshida for Bloom.

 

I thought the Beni trade was to build up farm depth and some hopes that one of the 5 guys we got would end up balancing out Beni's questionable future.

 

Cordero and Winkowski were ML or near ML ready, and the other 3 were long shots, but our farm was weak and shallow. It looks like the return will not pay off, as with Hamilton & Binelas with the Renfroe trade, but I suppose more time might flip the script. (Unlikely, in my view.)

 

The Pivetta trade was better than some seem to think it was. He's been on of MLB's best 5th starters over the past 2.5 years. While the 5th starter is not a shiny position, 180 solid innings has been very helpful. He's even pitched like man teams' number 3 for much of his time with the Sox.

 

The Vaz trade is still largely unknown, but I do think EValdez and WAbreu look better now than hamilton and Binelas looked at the time of their trade and Cordero/Wink looked at the time of the Beni trade.

 

For someone who is supposed to be good at finding gems in the rough, Bloom has not done it via trades- only waivers, Rule 5 and MiLFAs.

[Hugh2]

If he's the guy, you don't let the market develop.

 

Does anybody here really have any ideal what his "market" was??? The narrative that the Sox grossly overpaid for him appears to be purely conjecture. In reality, an agent would never leak that kind of information, if anything they would make it seem like other teams were out there bidding up with them. If they get the reputation of blowing smoke at GM's and grossly overstating other offers they'd lose the trust of those front offices. People can say what they want about the John Henrys and the Scott Boras of the world but there is an unspoke business language they all generally follow. From what I've heard, teams often have a general ideal of what other teams are involved in and what they are willing to spend. But no one really knows.

 

If Yoshida is as good as they say he can be here, he would have got double in this market.

[notin]

Diekman was his key pickup in the off season. He bombed. That is why it was a wash getting McGuire.

 

 

But the point is that the trade was a good trade, even if McGuire isn’ta long term piece. By calling it an overall wash, you’re at least giving him credit for cleaning up his mistake…

[moonslav59]

 

If Yoshida is as good as they say he can be here, he would have got double in this market.

 

Key word "If," and that's why he got what he got.

 

He may be worth double: he may be worth nothing. He got about in the middle.

 

We'll see if it was an overpay. We may never know how high the second offer might have been. It won't matter, if he does great. If he sucks, we'll be hearing a lot about us "bidding against ourselves," like the Dice-K signing, years ago.

[mvp 78]

Does anybody here really have any ideal what his "market" was??? The narrative that the Sox grossly overpaid for him appears to be purely conjecture. In reality, an agent would never leak that kind of information, if anything they would make it seem like other teams were out there bidding up with them. If they get the reputation of blowing smoke at GM's and grossly overstating other offers they'd lose the trust of those front offices. People can say what they want about the John Henrys and the Scott Boras of the world but there is an unspoke business language they all generally follow. From what I've heard, teams often have a general ideal of what other teams are involved in and what they are willing to spend. But no one really knows.

 

If Yoshida is as good as they say he can be here, he would have got double in this market.

 

Nobody really knows. In the end, if he's a 3 fWAR guy, he'll be worth the contract.

[moonslav59]

But the point is that the trade was a good trade, even if McGuire isn’ta long term piece. By calling it an overall wash, you’re at least giving him credit for cleaning up his mistake…

 

3 years of control could turn into a big win.

 

We basically traded Diekman (a net negative), Groome, Northcut and 2 months of Vaz for...

 

3.3 yrs of McGuire

0.3 years of Pham and Hosmer

5+ years of EValdez, WAbreu, MFerguson, CRosier

 

The deadline trades of 2020 (Hembree, Workman, Moreland and others for Pivetta and others) worked.

 

The deadline trades of 2021 (ARamirez and scraps for Schwarber, Iggy, Shaw, Robles and davis) worked.

 

It's the winter trades that kill Bloom. let's hope that changes with Mondesi and Mills help Bloom turn the corner on this phase of his job.

[mvp 78]

@redsoxpayroll

With Hosmer signing in Chicago, Barnes' $9.38MM AAV is now Boston's only dead $ for `23.

 

2022 ~$20MM (Price, JBJ)

2021 ~$30.3MM (Price, Pedey,

2020 ~$2.5MM (Worman/Hembree, Lucroy)

2019 ~$24.5MM (Pablo, Thornburg, Nunez)

2018 ~$33.6MM (Hanley, Pablo)

2017 ~$18.5MM (Pablo)

[Bellhorn04]

@redsoxpayroll

With Hosmer signing in Chicago, Barnes' $9.38MM AAV is now Boston's only dead $ for `23.

 

2022 ~$20MM (Price, JBJ)

2021 ~$30.3MM (Price, Pedey,

2020 ~$2.5MM (Worman/Hembree, Lucroy)

2019 ~$24.5MM (Pablo, Thornburg, Nunez)

2018 ~$33.6MM (Hanley, Pablo)

2017 ~$18.5MM (Pablo)

 

Sure, if we count Story's 23.3 as "live $" for '23...

 

Plus, why is JBJ there for '22 and at what $ amount?