2023 Free Agents

[moonslav59]

For those who think next year's free agent class will be better investments, which starting pitcher will Bloom bet on -- if he's finally willing to wager our wagers -- in the market a year from now?

 

Here are your under-30 candidates: Julio Urias, German Marquez, Jack Flaherty, Brad Keller.

 

Other youngish 31 year olds: Blake Snell, Zach Davies, Tyler Mahle, Jordan Montgomery. Aaron Nola could also be available, but he's a Phillie and his GM likes to spend big to lock up key guys before the bidding begins.

 

I'd be happy, if we never bet on a FA ace. Our history shows we do better trading for aces.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Then why did he let Mookie get away?

 

 

He saw what was coming, and he didn't want to make those betts...

[moonslav59]

He saw what was coming, and he didn't want to make those betts...

 

What a difference this team would be, right now, had DD extended Betts & Bogey early on, instead of Sale and Nate. It would have cost much more, so it's sort of apples and oranges, here, and it looked like Betts was determined to go to free agency, at the time, but still...

 

I am glad we did not lock up ERod, JBJ and Beni long term.

[dgalehouse]

Folks , here is the latest version : Bloom was forced to trade Mookie because Dombrowski " let him get away. " Ignore the fact that Dombrowski was axed in 2019 and Bloom traded Mookie in 2020.

[notin]

Folks , here is the latest version : Bloom was forced to trade Mookie because Dombrowski " let him get away. " Ignore the fact that Dombrowski was axed in 2019 and Bloom traded Mookie in 2020.

 

I guess he didn’t have 4 years to extend him. Let’s just ignore that…

[Bellhorn04]

Ok but that isn’t ERA. And ERA+ doesn’t take into account defense…

 

ERA+ is, however, superior to ERA and relatively easy to quantify and understand.

[moonslav59]

Folks , here is the latest version : Bloom was forced to trade Mookie because Dombrowski " let him get away. " Ignore the fact that Dombrowski was axed in 2019 and Bloom traded Mookie in 2020.

 

It's not ignoring anything, including the fact that Bloom had a chance to extend Betts, if he didn't spend a penny anywhere else and could have dumped half Price without attaching Betts to the deal.

 

DD tried to extend Betts. If it wasn't from Betts' mom, maybe he'd have done it. It appears DD changed his focus on extending Sa;e and Nate, and he got Bogey to extend one year beyond team control, too.

 

Nobody is ignoring anything. The fact that DD tried hard to extend Betts is proof of the possibility.

 

Do you honestly believe that when Bloom was hired, he had an opportunity to convince JH to spend on Betts? What? Bloom talked JH into slashing the budget b y $60M?

[moonslav59]

ERA+ is, however, superior to ERA and relatively easy to quantify and understand.

 

Does fangraphs' ERA- factor in/out defense or is that SIERA

[Bellhorn04]

Does fangraphs' ERA- factor in/out defense or is that SIERA

 

As I understand it, FanGraphs bases WAR for pitchers largely on FIP.

[Bellhorn04]

It's not ignoring anything, including the fact that Bloom had a chance to extend Betts, if he didn't spend a penny anywhere else and could have dumped half Price without attaching Betts to the deal.

 

DD tried to extend Betts. If it wasn't from Betts' mom, maybe he'd have done it. It appears DD changed his focus on extending Sa;e and Nate, and he got Bogey to extend one year beyond team control, too.

 

Nobody is ignoring anything. The fact that DD tried hard to extend Betts is proof of the possibility.

 

Do you honestly believe that when Bloom was hired, he had an opportunity to convince JH to spend on Betts? What? Bloom talked JH into slashing the budget b y $60M?

 

The very fact that Bloom was hired meant JH wanted some slashing.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The very fact that Bloom was hired meant JH wanted some slashing.

 

Henry had been salivating about hiring a slasher since Moneyball.

 

He was actually behind the scenes compelling Warner to produce the Big Bang episode where Sheldon wore the Slash costume and transported to mid-market MLB cities with his hologram machete...

[moonslav59]

The very fact that Bloom was hired meant JH wanted some slashing.

 

Indeed, so who is creating "versions?"

[moonslav59]

As I understand it, FanGraphs bases WAR for pitchers largely on FIP.

 

Yes, the "Factor out" D, which in a sense, creates an even playing field, but I don't like how it penalizes pitch to weak contact pitchers.

[notin]

Henry had been salivating about hiring a slasher since Moneyball.

 

He was actually behind the scenes compelling Warner to produce the Big Bang episode where Sheldon wore the Slash costume and transported to mid-market MLB cities with his hologram machete...

 

 

So you’re saying he assumed all slashing GMs would resemble Brad Pitt? And not Jonah Hill?

[notin]

Yes, the "Factor out" D, which in a sense, creates an even playing field, but I don't like how it penalizes pitch to weak contact pitchers.

 

It does so to negate defense. Even weak contact gets the defense involved.

 

But average exit velocity from a pitcher would be nice to incorporate somewhere…

[harmony]

For those who think next year's free agent class will be better investments, which starting pitcher will Bloom bet on -- if he's finally willing to wager our wagers -- in the market a year from now?

 

Here are your under-30 candidates: Julio Urias, German Marquez, Jack Flaherty, Brad Keller.

 

Other youngish 31 year olds: Blake Snell, Zach Davies, Tyler Mahle, Jordan Montgomery. Aaron Nola could also be available, but he's a Phillie and his GM likes to spend big to lock up key guys before the bidding begins.

Seattle righthander Chris Flexen, who turns 29 in July before entering free agency at the season's end, has outperformed Jack Flaherty and Brad Keller over the past two seasons:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/flexech01.shtml

[moonslav59]

It does so to negate defense. Even weak contact gets the defense involved.

 

But average exit velocity from a pitcher would be nice to incorporate somewhere…

 

Yes, I know weak hit balls require defenses to make the out, but to count weak hits as the same as hard hit balls is a weakness of that formula.

 

There are plenty of examples of pitchers who don't K a lot of batters, but continuously get batters out that are penalized by FIP.

 

Pitching is about a lot more than Ks, BBs and HRs.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yes, I know weak hit balls require defenses to make the out, but to count weak hits as the same as hard hit balls is a weakness of that formula.

 

There are plenty of examples of pitchers who don't K a lot of batters, but continuously get batters out that are penalized by FIP.

 

Pitching is about a lot more than Ks, BBs and HRs.

 

I have heard pitchers I play with say that their best ability is their availability.

 

There are also stars like Don Drysdale, who reportedly missed three scheduled starts in his entire career...

 

(how valuable to a staff is a guy whose 162-game averages include 237 IP... for 14 years?)

[notin]

I have heard pitchers I play with say that their best ability is their availability.

 

There are also stars like Don Drysdale, who reportedly missed three scheduled starts in his entire career...

 

(how valuable to a staff is a guy whose 162-game averages include 237 IP... for 14 years?)

 

 

I’ve posted similar stuff but not nearly as eloquently as Mr. Drysdale…

[moonslav59]

I have heard pitchers I play with say that their best ability is their availability.

 

There are also stars like Don Drysdale, who reportedly missed three scheduled starts in his entire career...

 

(how valuable to a staff is a guy whose 162-game averages include 237 IP... for 14 years?)

 

I'm fine with fangraphs counting IP more than B-R seems to do. I also get the reasoning behind FIP, but I think it needs an adjustment for "weak contact" pitchers.

[mvp 78]

The very fact that Bloom was hired meant JH wanted some slashing.

 

Was he unable to control Ben enough to tell him to slash the budget?

[Bellhorn04]

Was he unable to control Ben enough to tell him to slash the budget?

 

The Punto trade opened things up for Ben to spend.

[moonslav59]

The Punto trade opened things up for Ben to spend.

 

They also changed the no pitchers over 30 rule, right after Ben departed.

[notin]

Was he unable to control Ben enough to tell him to slash the budget?

 

If Ben had stayed on, I would imagine he’d be slashing budget as well…

[moonslav59]

If Ben had stayed on, I would imagine he’d be slashing budget as well…

 

After a spending frenzy from 2016-2017?

[notin]

After a spending frenzy from 2016-2017?

 

Dombrowski reportedly wanted Ben to stay on. Not sure if he would have been fired when Dombrowski was. His replacement, Mike Hazen, left on his own choice in 2016 for a better opportunity in Arizona. And Hazen wasn’t replaced. So if Cherington stated under Dombrowski, that he would have been fired along with DD is just speculation. Not necessarily incorrect speculation, but speculation nonetheless…

[mvp 78]

The Punto trade opened things up for Ben to spend.

 

Letting Xander go opened things up for Chaim to spend.

[mvp 78]

If Ben had stayed on, I would imagine he’d be slashing budget as well…

 

I just don't see that much of a difference between Ben and Chaim.

[mvp 78]

Dombrowski reportedly wanted Ben to stay on. Not sure if he would have been fired when Dombrowski was. His replacement, Mike Hazen, left on his own choice in 2016 for a better opportunity in Arizona. And Hazen wasn’t replaced. So if Cherington stated under Dombrowski, that he would have been fired along with DD is just speculation. Not necessarily incorrect speculation, but speculation nonetheless…

 

BOH has stuck around since 2002. I think Ben could still be here if he wanted.

[notin]

I just don't see that much of a difference between Ben and Chaim.

 

Ben is taller…