2023 Free Agents

[redsoxrules]

I'd hate to see the Sox lose Devers because they signed anyone else for $22M right now.

 

And that includes Judge, who is not the overall hitter Devers is or will become, and who I seriously doubt will be as productive in the next decade...

 

You can't be serious, wtf has Devers done to match up what Judge has done? And don't give me this crap that he's still young and will get better. What you see form Devers currently is what you get. Someone who will hit you around 30 dingers a year with an OPS around 850. Meanwhile Judge has finished 2nd in MVP in 2017, 4th in 2021 and most likely to win it this year. It's not even close. Some people on here way evaluate Devers. He is not a 300 Mil player.

[Old Red]

You can't be serious, wtf has Devers done to match up what Judge has done? And don't give me this crap that he's still young and will get better. What you see form Devers currently is what you get. Someone who will hit you around 30 dingers a year with an OPS around 850. Meanwhile Judge has finished 2nd in MVP in 2017, 4th in 2021 and most likely to win it this year. It's not even close. Some people on here way evaluate Devers. He is not a 300 Mil player.

Well said, but who would you sign going forward?

[moonslav59]

You can't be serious, wtf has Devers done to match up what Judge has done? And don't give me this crap that he's still young and will get better. What you see form Devers currently is what you get. Someone who will hit you around 30 dingers a year with an OPS around 850. Meanwhile Judge has finished 2nd in MVP in 2017, 4th in 2021 and most likely to win it this year. It's not even close. Some people on here way evaluate Devers. He is not a 300 Mil player.

 

Well, $300M/12 is $25M a year. It's much longer than Nimmo's suggested $22M x 5, and the ages would be Nimmo 30-34/ Devers 27-38, if the deal started in 2023. If Prime is 27-30, we'd get 4 years of prime with Devers vs 1 for Nimmo. Of course, the downside would likely be 4 years of post prime from Nimmo v 8 for Devers. The AAV difference would be just $3M more for Devers for 5 years, then $25M for the last 7 years.

 

We might get Devers for less, but I just used that as an example.

[Larry Cook]

Devers, yorke and winkleman to the angels for othani.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You can't be serious, wtf has Devers done to match up what Judge has done? And don't give me this crap that he's still young and will get better. What you see form Devers currently is what you get. Someone who will hit you around 30 dingers a year with an OPS around 850. Meanwhile Judge has finished 2nd in MVP in 2017, 4th in 2021 and most likely to win it this year. It's not even close. Some people on here way evaluate Devers. He is not a 300 Mil player.

 

I can be serious if I expect Judge to be damaged goods for about half of the next decade -- because he was half the time in the last half decade.

[Hugh2]

Well said, but who would you sign going forward?

 

This is funny to me. Almost any time I’ve seen someone ask you “well what would you do” you pretty always pivot and do not. Just an observation

[Hugh2]

Devers, yorke and winkleman to the angels for othani.

 

Angels say no but why not? Both are free agents after next year. Sign Bogaerts to play 3B and a stop gap at SS/2B.

 

I wouldn’t trade significant prospects for Ohtani. He may be the first 50 million dollar long term player and he’s worth it. The problem is if he ever goes down, you’re effectively losing two superstars at once. Too many eggs in one basket for me. I’d rather resign Devers who will probably cost 60% of what Ohtani may get AAV.

[notin]

Well, $300M/12 is $25M a year. It's much longer than Nimmo's suggested $22M x 5, and the ages would be Nimmo 30-34/ Devers 27-38, if the deal started in 2023. If Prime is 27-30, we'd get 4 years of prime with Devers vs 1 for Nimmo. Of course, the downside would likely be 4 years of post prime from Nimmo v 8 for Devers. The AAV difference would be just $3M more for Devers for 5 years, then $25M for the last 7 years.

 

We might get Devers for less, but I just used that as an example.

 

Post-prime Devers doesn’t immediately mean he drops from an.850-.900 OPS to .680. Post-prime Devers should give a year or two (or more!) greater than Nimmo in his prime season…

[Old Red]

This is funny to me. Almost any time I’ve seen someone ask you “well what would you do” you pretty always pivot and do not. Just an observation

 

Example, and mostly it’s from 1 poster. I’ve been very clear about Bogey, Raffy, and a closer for the past year now, but thanks for asking.

[moonslav59]

Post-prime Devers doesn’t immediately mean he drops from an.850-.900 OPS to .680. Post-prime Devers should give a year or two (or more!) greater than Nimmo in his prime season…

 

Agreed, and that's one reason I'd go up to $300M/12 for Devers.

[moonslav59]

Example, and mostly it’s from 1 poster. I’ve been very clear about Bogey, Raffy, and a closer for the past year now, but thanks for asking.

 

You won't name the closer.

 

Is that it? We stay the same at SS and 3B, improve at Closer and still have a huge hole in RF, the rotation and pen depth, but thanks for being vaguely specific.

[notin]

Angels say no but why not? Both are free agents after next year. Sign Bogaerts to play 3B and a stop gap at SS/2B.

 

I wouldn’t trade significant prospects for Ohtani. He may be the first 50 million dollar long term player and he’s worth it. The problem is if he ever goes down, you’re effectively losing two superstars at once. Too many eggs in one basket for me. I’d rather resign Devers who will probably cost 60% of what Ohtani may get AAV.

 

The Angels say no because they don’t want $52mill AAV tied up at 3b while they weaken they’re already sub-mediocre pitching staff…

Edited November 12, 2022 by notin

[Old Red]

You won't name the closer.

 

Is that it? We stay the same at SS and 3B, improve at Closer and still have a huge hole in RF, the rotation and pen depth, but thanks for being vaguely specific.

I named a closer last year with either Jansen, or Bard. Diaz is gone now, and the Red Sox have already weakened the BP for this year at the moment by putting Whitlock back in the rotation, and they haven’t committed to Houck anywhere either. Who said anything about adding a closer, and keeping Bogey, and Raffy as being it. Once again NOBODY. I was commenting on one of your 100’s of scenarios about adding Correa over Bogey, and bring back pretty much the same cast of characters, so you were the one, and not me. I think most people know about all the holes that have to be filled.

[Old Red]

Agreed, and that's one reason I'd go up to $300M/12 for Devers.

 

I believe 12/year contracts are bad for anybody. I’m surprised you don’t want to give Raffy 14 yrs like you wanted to Mookie.

[Hugh2]

Yeah I don’t like the 12 year contract, even 10 I’m weary about. The only exception I’d make is for a generational player who is willling to sign it by year two and he’s proven. In todays game, given the need to reset the luxury tax line for big teams I think there’s value in paying a little more AAV for less years. There’s a reason why you’re seeing more of that.

[Hugh2]

The Angles say no because why on earth would they trace Ohtani for an MLB asset. Betts got you a prospect of similar value to Yorke and 5 years of a good mlb player. And Ohtani is better, why would LA take less?

[redsoxrules]

I can be serious if I expect Judge to be damaged goods for about half of the next decade -- because he was half the time in the last half decade.

 

You flat out said Devers is a better hitter than Judge currently and will be in the future. Devers is not a better hitter than Judge. You can't predict that someone will miss games due to injuries. Heck Devers could get a freak injury. You just don't know

[moonslav59]

I believe 12/year contracts are bad for anybody. I’m surprised you don’t want to give Raffy 14 yrs like you wanted to Mookie.

 

It's what I'd give them for 10 years, so giving 12 or 14 just lowers the AAV for tax purposes, and who knows, maybe they'll still be productive in years 11-12 or 11-14.

[Old Red]

It's what I'd give them for 10 years, so giving 12 or 14 just lowers the AAV for tax purposes, and who knows, maybe they'll still be productive in years 11-12 or 11-14.

 

I understand about the AAV, but to me a 10 yr contract is bad, and a 12, or 14 is even worse.

[moonslav59]

I understand about the AAV, but to me a 10 yr contract is bad, and a 12, or 14 is even worse.

 

You'd rather have Devers at $300M/10 than $300M/12?

 

He'd be 37 or 38 for his 12th year. He could still be good, then, and we'd save $5M a year on the tax budget for 10 years.

[Old Red]

You'd rather have Devers at $300M/10 than $300M/12?

 

He'd be 37 or 38 for his 12th year. He could still be good, then, and we'd save $5M a year on the tax budget for 10 years.

 

I wouldn’t rather have Devers at all for $300M. I don’t think he’s a $300M player.

[Hugh2]

I wouldn’t rather have Devers at all for $300M. I don’t think he’s a $300M player.

 

Then how can you possibly be upset the Sox didn’t extend him?

[Old Red]

Then how can you possibly be upset the Sox didn’t extend him?

 

I don’t think any player is worth $300M, and I don’t like 10 yr+ contracts, but that’s just me. If they could get Bogey for say 8 years/$225M, or something close I’d be fine with it. To me the Red Sox should have worked harder last off season, and if a deal could not have been worked out then the Red Sox should have traded him with two years of control left. It wouldn’t have looked good to trade him, but it’s not going to look good now either, and even worse if he just walks after this year.

[notin]

I don’t think any player is worth $300M, and I don’t like 10 yr+ contracts, but that’s just me. If they could get Bogey for say 8 years/$225M, or something close I’d be fine with it. To me the Red Sox should have worked harder last off season, and if a deal could not have been worked out then the Red Sox should have traded him with two years of control left. It wouldn’t have looked good to trade him, but it’s not going to look good now either, and even worse if he just walks after this year.

 

Bogaerts didn’t have two years of control last off-season.

 

And the Sox -coming off an ALCS appearance - absolutely should not have dealt anyone for reasons related to contract. For a guy who keeps saying Bloom can’t run this team like it’sTampa, that’s a VERY Tampa-like suggestion…

[Bellhorn04]

Bogaerts didn’t have two years of control last off-season.

 

And the Sox -coming off an ALCS appearance - absolutely should not have dealt anyone for reasons related to contract. For a guy who keeps saying Bloom can’t run this team like it’sTampa, that’s a VERY Tampa-like suggestion…

 

Right on.

[Old Red]

Bogaerts didn’t have two years of control last off-season.

 

And the Sox -coming off an ALCS appearance - absolutely should not have dealt anyone for reasons related to contract. For a guy who keeps saying Bloom can’t run this team like it’sTampa, that’s a VERY Tampa-like suggestion…

I really messed this one up, so thanks for correcting me. I was talking about Raffy, but thinking about Bogey.

[Hugh2]

I don’t think any player is worth $300M, and I don’t like 10 yr+ contracts, but that’s just me. If they could get Bogey for say 8 years/$225M, or something close I’d be fine with it. To me the Red Sox should have worked harder last off season, and if a deal could not have been worked out then the Red Sox should have traded him with two years of control left. It wouldn’t have looked good to trade him, but it’s not going to look good now either, and even worse if he just walks after this year.

 

You literally just made the argument for why they traded Mookie Betts

[Nick]

José Abreu rumors: Red Sox ‘high on the list’ with Cubs, Astros, Marlins (report)

 

If you recall we came in second when Abreu signed with the Sox.

 

Our response the following year?

 

7 year, $72.5M to Rusney Castillo.

 

Name a worst contract.

 

Chris Sale is one injury away from that distinction.

[Nick]

Signed with the White Sox....sorry. My text is not coming up when I go edit.

[notin]

I really messed this one up, so thanks for correcting me. I was talking about Raffy, but thinking about Bogey.

 

But even with Devers, that’s acting like Tampa. Especially after coming off an ALCS season…