Kike Hernandez signs 1 year extension

[Hugh2]

Ref is a journeyman who seems to have become a pretty decent player. Hopefully he's back.

 

My only concern is players like he are so volatile, he looks great this year but he could be garbage next year. Three years from now Franchy Cordero could be a good player helping some other team win a pennant. It's a crazy world....I know.

[notin]

With Kike penciled in as your starting CFer, you need to worry about who backs him up

 

Yeah but everything could be different by then.

 

Duran remains the unflavored but existent option. But by early 2023, it’s possible someone like Wilyer Abreu or Cedanne Rafaela plays himself into the picture.

 

I think getting a starting lineup is more important than knowing the backups especially for the players who don’t have significant injury histories…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I really would prefer Dugo in LF, and since Pham and Refsnyder both bat righty, it's hard to work out a platoon for LF or RF. (I'm not counting lefty Duran in the OF mix, except as minor league depth.)

 

If we can find steep upgrades at SP & Pen, and someone close to Bogey's production at 2B or SS, I guess I'd be okay with ...

 

LF: Pham

CF: Kike

RF: Dugo

 

or

 

LF: Dugo

CF: Kike

RF: Refsnyder

 

Pham & Ref might end up being part of a rotating DH slot, along with Arroyo/EValdez and one from Hosmer, Dalbec or Cordero.

 

Either combo presents an outfield to play a big league game. But neither completes a World Series contender. Who is going to hit 30 home runs?

 

The Red Sox need a serious upgrade in the batting order, especially without replacing Renfroe or Schwarber (Story isn't as good as both combined), and the real-time/impending loss of JD's power bat. And since most of us suspect Bloom won't be spending big for a full-time DH, somewhere in the outfield seems like the place to add that production.

[moonslav59]

A Verdugo-Kike-Nimmo outfield who’d make so happy my bellybutton would squirt jelly…

 

I agree, and with Refsnyder and Pham as the 4th OF & possible DH platoon, we should be fine.

[notin]

My only concern is players like he are so volatile, he looks great this year but he could be garbage next year. Three years from now Franchy Cordero could be a good player helping some other team win a pennant. It's a crazy world....I know.

 

Most bench players have a degree of volatility. It’s what keeps many of them from being starters…

[moonslav59]

Dugy needs to go back to LF, and the Ref is nothing more than a journeyman 4th/5th OF. I don’t even count Duran as even minor league depth anymore, and same with Franchy. I’ve seen enough of both in the field, and at bat.

 

I don't want to see Farnchy or Duran either, and with Ref or Pahm as back-up, hopefully, we won't, but we will not be adding a 5th OF'er via trade or free agency, unless it's on a minor league deal (not a bad idea.)

 

If we add someone like Nimmo, we might have a hard time getting playing time for Pham and Ref, so no minor league depth should be needed.

[moonslav59]

Some of those guys are fine depth options or might end up being a good platoon/4th outfielder type. But how many of those do you need on your roster? sure if a guy has options you can keep him in AAA, but this team obviously still needs another CF/RF type for next year.

 

Assuming we add a RF'er, the only way Pham and ref stay on the 26 is if one is part of a DH platoon, otherwise, we wont carry 5 OF'ers. (Pham and Ref are out of options.)

[moonslav59]

Either combo presents an outfield to play a big league game. But neither completes a World Series contender. Who is going to hit 30 home runs?

 

The Red Sox need a serious upgrade in the batting order, especially without replacing Renfroe or Schwarber (Story isn't as good as both combined), and the real-time/impending loss of JD's power bat. And since most of us suspect Bloom won't be spending big for a full-time DH, somewhere in the outfield seems like the place to add that production.

 

Agreed, but I prefaced my statement with countering a rather weak OF by greatly upgrading in other areas, like SP, RP and staying even at SS/2B. (Maybe spend more on C or 1B or stack the pen.)

[notin]

Either combo presents an outfield to play a big league game. But neither completes a World Series contender. Who is going to hit 30 home runs?

 

The Red Sox need a serious upgrade in the batting order, especially without replacing Renfroe or Schwarber (Story isn't as good as both combined), and the real-time/impending loss of JD's power bat. And since most of us suspect Bloom won't be spending big for a full-time DH, somewhere in the outfield seems like the place to add that production.

 

And there comes the “careful what you wish for.”

 

The Dalbec/Cordero platoon has quietly combined for 19 HRs, placing 1b as the Sox second best power position. That can be read into multiple ways….

[Old Red]

With Kike penciled in as your starting CFer, you need to worry about who backs him up

 

There are lots of other questions that have to be answered 1st. Pitching, pitching, and pitching BP, and the rotation.

[notin]

Agreed, but I prefaced my statement with countering a rather weak OF by greatly upgrading in other areas, like SP, RP and staying even at SS/2B. (Maybe spend more on C or 1B or stack the pen.)

 

Stack the pen…

[Old Red]

I don't want to see Farnchy or Duran either, and with Ref or Pahm as back-up, hopefully, we won't, but we will not be adding a 5th OF'er via trade or free agency, unless it's on a minor league deal (not a bad idea.)

 

If we add someone like Nimmo, we might have a hard time getting playing time for Pham and Ref, so no minor league depth should be needed.

Most years you don’t need lots of minor league depth, but this year was not like most years.

[notin]

There are lots of other questions that have to be answered 1st. Pitching, pitching, and pitching BP, and the rotation.

 

The rotation probably mostly exists on paper. It’s easy (and to some degree, logical) on the forum to discount Sale and Paxton. But as they will (if/when Paxton’s option is picked up) combine for $40-ish mill in AAV. they won’t be ignored. With Pivetta likely back (although he could certainly be traded) and Bello making a strong push, the rotation could require a single pitcher at the MLB level. With Eovaldi likely getting a QO, and Wacha earning attention, the rotation for 2023 might already be in the organization.

 

Of course, depth beyond Mata, Ward, and Crawford will become essential…

[moonslav59]

Most years you don’t need lots of minor league depth, but this year was not like most years.

 

If we went with an OF of Dugo, Kike, Pham, Refsnyder, I'd want some minor league depth, and not just for injuries.

 

If we add Nimmo, we might have to trade Pham or Ref, since neither have options, or make them part of the DH role.

[Old Red]

If we went with an OF of Dugo, Kike, Pham, Refsnyder, I'd want some minor league depth, and not just for injuries.

 

If we add Nimmo, we might have to trade Pham or Ref, since neither have options, or make them part of the DH role.

I would really like to see a upgrade from Pham in the OF.

[Maxbialystock]

1. Cora came out, and said before the season even started, that Story would not be playing SS when Bogey didn’t, so don’t look at others playing SS as meaning anything. If Bogey isn’t resigned it remains to be seen who goes to SS, or 2B.

 

2. Dugo needs to go back to LF, and a RF would be more of a priority.

 

I'm fine with Story at 2b.

 

You are no doubt right about Dugo too, but I've seen him make more good plays in RF than in LF. Yes, he badly misplayed that carom off the right field wall in Fenway and had to run 40 years, but then he made a terrific no bounce throw to 3b to nail that guy--a huge play. Also at Fenway, he caught that fly/liner in deep right center that looked like it was going out.

[Maxbialystock]

And there comes the “careful what you wish for.”

 

The Dalbec/Cordero platoon has quietly combined for 19 HRs, placing 1b as the Sox second best power position. That can be read into multiple ways….

 

Their combined WAR to date is -0.6.

 

To me the problem with the Sox lineup in 2023 is simple. JDM, who has helped a lot but not so much this year, is probably gone. Devers and Bogey, who have been at least as useful, hitting-wise, want long-term contracts which JH and CB might be reluctant to offer.

 

Funny thing about those dingers everyone seems to crave. In their four WS seasons, the Sox were ranked 18th in MLB in dingers in 2007, 5th in 2004, 6th in 2013, and 10th in 2018.

 

In those same seasons, the Sox team ERA was 11th in 2004, 2d (!!!!) in 2007, 14th in 2013 (but it was an outstanding 1st in the postseason, 2.59!!), and 8th in 2018.

[moonslav59]

The rotation probably mostly exists on paper. It’s easy (and to some degree, logical) on the forum to discount Sale and Paxton. But as they will (if/when Paxton’s option is picked up) combine for $40-ish mill in AAV. they won’t be ignored. With Pivetta likely back (although he could certainly be traded) and Bello making a strong push, the rotation could require a single pitcher at the MLB level. With Eovaldi likely getting a QO, and Wacha earning attention, the rotation for 2023 might already be in the organization.

 

Of course, depth beyond Mata, Ward, and Crawford will become essential…

 

I'm not sure Eovaldi is "likely" to get a QO, but certainly 1 year deals are less risky.

 

I'd prefer giving Wacha a QO to Nate. maybe we give both one, and our rotation will be set.

 

1. Sale or Paxton

2. Wacha

3. Nate

4. Pivetta

5. Paxton or Sale (Bello & other prospects)

[moonslav59]

I would really like to see a upgrade from Pham in the OF.

 

If either Pham or Ref hit lefty, I'd be okay with a platoon, but they aren't, and I agree.

 

I'm not even sure I want either as part of a DH rotation or platoon, either, but if we upgrade enough, elsewhere, I can see going light in the OF or DH.

 

We could sign a RF/DH type, like Mancini, but I'm not sure I want him in Fenway's RF. (Haniger?)

[Old Red]

I'm not sure Eovaldi is "likely" to get a QO, but certainly 1 year deals are less risky.

 

I'd prefer giving Wacha a QO to Nate. maybe we give both one, and our rotation will be set.

 

1. Sale or Paxton

2. Wacha

3. Nate

4. Pivetta

5. Paxton or Sale (Bello & other prospects)

If Paxton was picked up along with QO to Nate, and Evol that would tie up around $50M. I agree with Wacha over Nate.

[notin]

I'm not sure Eovaldi is "likely" to get a QO, but certainly 1 year deals are less risky.

 

I'd prefer giving Wacha a QO to Nate. maybe we give both one, and our rotation will be set.

 

1. Sale or Paxton

2. Wacha

3. Nate

4. Pivetta

5. Paxton or Sale (Bello & other prospects)

 

MLBTR listed Eovaldi as definitely getting one.

 

I am on the fence…

[notin]

If either Pham or Ref hit lefty, I'd be okay with a platoon, but they aren't, and I agree.

 

I'm not even sure I want either as part of a DH rotation or platoon, either, but if we upgrade enough, elsewhere, I can see going light in the OF or DH.

 

We could sign a RF/DH type, like Mancini, but I'm not sure I want him in Fenway's RF. (Haniger?)

 

Pham is depth at this stage of his career.

 

I wouldn’t pick up the option, but I think the Sox might try to re-sign him for less…

[Bellhorn04]

MLBTR listed Eovaldi as definitely getting one.

 

I am on the fence…

 

When someone says that I can't help wondering what kind of fence it is. In some cases it would be pretty uncomfortable.

[redsoxrules]

1. Cora came out, and said before the season even started, that Story would not be playing SS when Bogey didn’t, so don’t look at others playing SS as meaning anything. If Bogey isn’t resigned it remains to be seen who goes to SS, or 2B.

 

2. Dugo needs to go back to LF, and a RF would be more of a priority.

 

I don't like Dugo in left. He blows playing the Monster. Even in away games he stinks playing balls off of high walls.

[Old Red]

I'm fine with Story at 2b.

 

You are no doubt right about Dugo too, but I've seen him make more good plays in RF than in LF. Yes, he badly misplayed that carom off the right field wall in Fenway and had to run 40 years, but then he made a terrific no bounce throw to 3b to nail that guy--a huge play. Also at Fenway, he caught that fly/liner in deep right center that looked like it was going out.

I’m fine with Story at 2B too, but if the new shift rules are put in next year Story won’t be playing out in short RF so much, and might be more valuable at SS if Bogey leaves.

[moonslav59]

Pham is depth at this stage of his career.

 

I wouldn’t pick up the option, but I think the Sox might try to re-sign him for less…

 

I think Pham is tradeable at $6M, but maybe he re-signs for $9-10M/2.

 

If we sign someone like Nimmo, Ref & Pham are out of options, and we don't need Pham.

[notin]

When someone says that I can't help wondering what kind of fence it is. In some cases it would be pretty uncomfortable.

 

In this case, wooden like in western movies.

 

Not picket. I’m not miserable or anything…

[Maxbialystock]

I’m fine with Story at 2B too, but if the new shift rules are put in next year Story won’t be playing out in short RF so much, and might be more valuable at SS if Bogey leaves.

 

Story was not bargain at $22M x 6, but I think he was a good acquisition because 2d base has been weak since Pedey got nailed by Machado. Plus he's a good SS. Plus maybe Bogey would settle for 6 X $25M.

[moonslav59]

Story was not bargain at $22M x 6, but I think he was a good acquisition because 2d base has been weak since Pedey got nailed by Machado. Plus he's a good SS. Plus maybe Bogey would settle for 6 X $25M.

 

I agree, but it's $23.4 x 6.

[Hugh2]

The great thing about QO's is even if you blow up your cap that's money you know is coming off the books next year. There's a difference between paying a guy 40/1 and 20 a year X2.