Kike Hernandez signs 1 year extension

[Hugh2]

Well I hardly consider a Jon Berti trade a depletion of resources.

 

I actually think the Sox are in a rare position where they have more MLB-ready pitchers than hitters/position players. The OF is particularly weak at the upper levels. Next year (if not sooner) the Sox could see the MLB debuts of Mata, Walter, Murphy and Ward to go along with this year’s class of Bello, Winckowski, Crawford and Kelly. But what position players? Valdez? Anyone else? (Not counting Wong, as he debuted last year.)

 

This is true, but I don’t see any of those guys being an ACE, I have faith that Mata and Bello will be good, but probably not TOTRS, most of the other guys will either fail or be relievers.

 

The team is more flush with starters than they’ve been in a long time, this is true, but it’s all #3-#5 talent. Even if Chris Sale is healthy (which you can’t bank on) another ACE makes you a WS caliber team. This is why I kind of like the ideal of signing a Rodon and trading Pivetta for either 2nd/RF. Really like Degrom here as well but he’s asking for stupid money. Maybe he’s worth it.

 

Still open to trade for a TOTRS

[moonslav59]

Well I hardly consider a Jon Berti trade a depletion of resources.

 

I actually think the Sox are in a rare position where they have more MLB-ready pitchers than hitters/position players. The OF is particularly weak at the upper levels. Next year (if not sooner) the Sox could see the MLB debuts of Mata, Walter, Murphy and Ward to go along with this year’s class of Bello, Winckowski, Crawford and Kelly. But what position players? Valdez? Anyone else? (Not counting Wong, as he debuted last year.)

 

Not counting Casas, too.

 

I could also see German added to your pitcher list.

 

Position players: R Hernandez, especially if we add no catchers. Maybe Wilyer Abreu (OF) , a big OBP guy, too.

[moonslav59]

This is true, but I don’t see any of those guys being an ACE, I have faith that Mata and Bello will be good, but probably not TOTRS, most of the other guys will either fail or be relievers.

 

The team is more flush with starters than they’ve been in a long time, this is true, but it’s all #3-#5 talent. Even if Chris Sale is healthy (which you can’t bank on) another ACE makes you a WS caliber team. This is why I kind of like the ideal of signing a Rodon and trading Pivetta for either 2nd/RF. Really like Degrom here as well but he’s asking for stupid money. Maybe he’s worth it.

 

Still open to trade for a TOTRS

 

Maybe they trade 2 excess 5th starters wanna-be's for a 2Bman, DH/RF'er or established RP'er.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Maybe they trade 2 excess 5th starters wanna-be's for a 2Bman, DH/RF'er or established RP'er.

 

I keep thinking back on your Rule 5 eligibles, guys that won't be added to the 40.... move them or you lose them.

[mvp 78]

I keep thinking back on your Rule 5 eligibles, guys that won't be added to the 40.... move them or you lose them.

 

Not necessarily. We tend to overrate our Rule V eligible guys and haven’t had anyone of note taken in a while. We’re typically more surprised of who is left available to be drafted.

[moonslav59]

I keep thinking back on your Rule 5 eligibles, guys that won't be added to the 40.... move them or you lose them.

 

Many are already on the 40.

 

SP- I don't count Bello or Mata as wanting to trade, but... these, yes: Wink, Crawford, Seabold

RP- Danish, Ort, Kelly, Bazardo

 

I am certain someone would take Ceddanne Rafael, Frank German and Brandon Walter

 

Other Rule 5 candidates:

OF Wilyer Abreu (103 BBs in AA)

P Wikelman Gonzalez (15th on soxprospects), Thaddeus Ward (17th on sp)

U Eddison Paulino (10th ranked on soxprospects)

 

Doubtful

IF Bonaci, D Hamilton, C Koss

OF G Jimenez

C Cottam

P V Santos, N Song, J Thompson, D Feltman

[moonslav59]

Not necessarily. We tend to overrate our Rule V eligible guys and haven’t had anyone of note taken in a while. We’re typically more surprised of who is left available to be drafted.

 

IMO, we haven't lost any, in a while, because our 40 man roster depth has been pretty weak, and we've been able to add any and all Rule 5 borderline prospects.

 

I see a possible logjam, this year, but only if we plan on adding, via trade or FA, 5-6+ players.

[Hugh2]

Maybe they trade 2 excess 5th starters wanna-be's for a 2Bman, DH/RF'er or established RP'er.

 

You're also not getting much for those guys. And I'd rather trade a guy like Pivetta than Bello, and Pivetta has a ton more value than Wink. Pivetta plus a prospect in the Yorke category probably gets you a pretty good up-the-middle player. Not great but good.

[moonslav59]

You're also not getting much for those guys. And I'd rather trade a guy like Pivetta than Bello, and Pivetta has a ton more value than Wink. Pivetta plus a prospect in the Yorke category probably gets you a pretty good up-the-middle player. Not great but good.

 

I don't think I'd be looking to trade the only pitcher we have that rates to go 150+ IP, next year, like Pivetta.

 

I don't think we'd get much for Wink or Seabold, but we would for Mata, Walter, Wikelman and maybe TWard and Murphy. Remember, I also said 2 of them. I think Wink & Walter or Wink & Wikelman gets us a 2Bman who is entering arb year or higher cots last 2 years of arb.

[notin]

Not necessarily. We tend to overrate our Rule V eligible guys and haven’t had anyone of note taken in a while. We’re typically more surprised of who is left available to be drafted.

 

That’s a good point.

 

Who was the last Rule 5 player the Sox lost that amounted to anything? Was it Ryan Pressly?

[notin]

I don't think I'd be looking to trade the only pitcher we have that rates to go 150+ IP, next year, like Pivetta.

 

I don't think we'd get much for Wink or Seabold, but we would for Mata, Walter, Wikelman and maybe TWard and Murphy. Remember, I also said 2 of them. I think Wink & Walter or Wink & Wikelman gets us a 2Bman who is entering arb year or higher cots last 2 years of arb.

 

Don’t trade Walter!

 

The Sox might only have 2 LHP on the 40 man next year, and the other one is Darwinzon!

[moonslav59]

That’s a good point.

 

Who was the last Rule 5 player the Sox lost that amounted to anything? Was it Ryan Pressly?

 

That could also be because we protect everyone who needs to be or even more than need to be.

[moonslav59]

Don’t trade Walter!

 

The Sox might only have 2 LHP on the 40 man next year, and the other one is Darwinzon!

 

I was just making a point that we could trade 2 SP'ers on the roster or about to be pre-Rule 5 for a very capable player.

 

Note: I'm not for depleting the pitching staff. If we traded 2 lower starters, I'd still want to add several pitchers to the current staff.

[Nick]

Bloom supposedly promised Kike we will be "much better" next year.

 

Bringing back same faces won't accomplish that goal.

 

He better be spending money.

[Hugh2]

I don't think I'd be looking to trade the only pitcher we have that rates to go 150+ IP, next year, like Pivetta.

 

I don't think we'd get much for Wink or Seabold, but we would for Mata, Walter, Wikelman and maybe TWard and Murphy. Remember, I also said 2 of them. I think Wink & Walter or Wink & Wikelman gets us a 2Bman who is entering arb year or higher cots last 2 years of arb.

 

No you're not. But if you're bringing in a TOTRS, somebody has to get booted from the rotation and I'd rather have him go than one of the younger promising arms coming up.

 

1. TOTRS (Degrom, Scherzer, Rodon, TRADE C)

2. Sale

3. Wacha

4. Eovaldi

5. Bello/Paxton/Whitlock/Houck

[mvp 78]

No you're not. But if you're bringing in a TOTRS, somebody has to get booted from the rotation and I'd rather have him go than one of the younger promising arms coming up.

 

1. TOTRS (Degrom, Scherzer, Rodon, TRADE C)

2. Sale

3. Wacha

4. Eovaldi

5. Bello/Paxton/Whitlock/Houck

 

Is Sale a #2 anymore? Can we even count on him to start going forward?

 

Are Wacha and Eovaldi both getting QO's? If so, that's a very expensive rotation that could vastly underperform.

 

Whitlock as the #5 seems fine to me. I don't know if we can count on anything from Houck going forward after this surgery.

[Hugh2]

The long-term plan was to always move Whitlock into the rotation, I'm wondering if they've abandoned that plan. This seems pretty stupid to me because he didn't fail as a starter, rather the bullpen failed and he moved there due to necessity. Seems to me that the way to right the ship is to fix the bullpen....but Maybe the Sox really think a clean bill of health next year and Whitlock/Houck can be a lockdown 8th/9th tandem.

[Hugh2]

Is Sale a #2 anymore? Can we even count on him to start going forward?

 

Are Wacha and Eovaldi both getting QO's? If so, that's a very expensive rotation that could vastly underperform.

 

Whitlock as the #5 seems fine to me. I don't know if we can count on anything from Houck going forward after this surgery.

 

If he's the healthy year. YOu have to assume he's in your rotation until he gets hurt because you're paying him a boatload of money.

[Hugh2]

I also wonder if the Sox would offer a QO to both Wacha and Eovaldi, or if they're just picking one. If it's only one, they probably still need Piveta AND have to go out and add another starter. Especially if Whitlock/Houck are permanently in the bullpen now.

[moonslav59]

Bloom supposedly promised Kike we will be "much better" next year.

 

Bringing back same faces won't accomplish that goal.

 

He better be spending money.

 

If he's just healthy, he's an upgrade. (Remember, our CF, this year, was .664 with JBJ and Duran playing the most after Kike, and Kike getting less than half the CF PAs.)

[moonslav59]

No you're not. But if you're bringing in a TOTRS, somebody has to get booted from the rotation and I'd rather have him go than one of the younger promising arms coming up.

 

1. TOTRS (Degrom, Scherzer, Rodon, TRADE C)

2. Sale

3. Wacha

4. Eovaldi

5. Bello/Paxton/Whitlock/Houck

 

I'd still want Pivetta, even if we brought back/in 2 SP'er.

 

We aren't bring 3.

[Hugh2]

Is Sale a #2 anymore? Can we even count on him to start going forward?

 

Are Wacha and Eovaldi both getting QO's? If so, that's a very expensive rotation that could vastly underperform.

 

Whitlock as the #5 seems fine to me. I don't know if we can count on anything from Houck going forward after this surgery.

 

 

IDK, I question that too, but if you're going over the luxury tax anyways next year why not? it's one year and you need pitching. But at this point Wacha has probably pitched himself into one over Nathan, my guess is Wacha gets one and Nathan does not. But people forget Nate is only 32 so I don't think it's out of the question.

 

If you can't count on Sale to stay healthy and you don't offer them to both then what's your rotation?

 

Wacha

Pivetta

Paxton

Bello

Paxton?

 

That could be disastrous as well. Maybe my ideal of trading Pivetta is dumb, but at least it's contingent on adding another (better pitcher). The better argument here may be they should be doing that regardless. I think that's the main take away here.

[Hugh2]

I'd still want Pivetta, even if we brought back/in 2 SP'er.

 

We aren't bring 3.

 

We need to seriously upgrade the pitching regardless of what we do with anyone of our middling to back-end starters. Hands down the biggest weakness on the team. Bringing back the same guy and expecting better results from fringey rookies with mediocre talent isn't going to net much better results.

[moonslav59]

We need to seriously upgrade the pitching regardless of what we do with anyone of our middling to back-end starters. Hands down the biggest weakness on the team. Bringing back the same guy and expecting better results from fringey rookies with mediocre talent isn't going to net much better results.

 

I don't disagree. I'm just saying we are not adding 3 SP'er, this winter (including QOs taken.)

[Hugh2]

I don't disagree. I'm just saying we are not adding 3 SP'er, this winter (including QOs taken.)

 

I don't think we would either, but if you add three and subtracting 1 you're left with two.

[Hugh2]

Also, it's hard to assume Wacha comes back, he will be 31 for 1/2 of next season. He probably gets a deal, and that could be elsewhere. I think Nathan accepts it if he's offered one. Maybe Nathan is the guy you role with and you take the pick with Wacha.

[mvp 78]

If he's the healthy year. YOu have to assume he's in your rotation until he gets hurt because you're paying him a boatload of money.

 

At this point in the contract, I'm not sure the money actually matters. What matters is the product that you put on the field. Sale just hasn't been able to lace them up every 5 days. Could he provide more benefit in a bulk relief role? Swap him with Whitlock?

[moonslav59]

Also, it's hard to assume Wacha comes back, he will be 31 for 1/2 of next season. He probably gets a deal, and that could be elsewhere. I think Nathan accepts it if he's offered one. Maybe Nathan is the guy you role with and you take the pick with Wacha.

 

I think both would take a QO.

 

I think Wacha would have to think he can make $50M/3 to turn down $18M/1. Does he get that?

[mvp 78]

I also wonder if the Sox would offer a QO to both Wacha and Eovaldi, or if they're just picking one. If it's only one, they probably still need Piveta AND have to go out and add another starter. Especially if Whitlock/Houck are permanently in the bullpen now.

 

I'd be really surprised if Wacha gets a QO. I think he's in Steven Matz territory from last offseason. A similar guy who had a bounce back year at age 30 and did NOT get a QO. He signed for 4/44. I think Wacha is more likely to get something like that rather than a QO.

 

Eovaldi? He was fantastic at age 31 last year, but injuries have always been in his rearview mirror. Even according to FanGraphs Value chart, Eovaldi was only worth over $20M one time since 2016. Maybe try to re-sign him at 2/26?

[mvp 78]

I think both would take a QO.

 

I think Wacha would have to think he can make $50M/3 to turn down $18M/1. Does he get that?

 

They'd take it, but isn't that just wasting Henry's money when you could spend it on other players? Why overpay Eovaldi and Wacha?