A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[moonslav59]

Maybe they think he will clear waivers (he will) and they can negotiate a minor league deal with him after he refuses assuignment…

 

No MLB team would take Barnes on their 26 man roster at min wage?

 

I find that very hard to fathom, un less he's hurt and won't pass any physical.

 

Ort has options. Mills has options.

 

This makes no sense, unless he's pretty much traded, already or hurt or about to be charged with a crime.

[notin]

No MLB team would take Barnes on their 26 man roster at min wage?

 

I find that very hard to fathom, un less he's hurt and won't pass any physical.

 

Ort has options. Mills has options.

 

This makes no sense, unless he's pretty much traded, already or hurt or about to be charged with a crime.

 

Options aren’t the issue. There is no 26 man roster in January.

 

Any team claiming Barnes will take on his full salary. If Barnes clears waivers, he will very likely become a free agent. And any team signing him to an MLB contract might have to DFA someone themselves. But also by waiting until he clears waivers - Boston picks up the tab…

 

But I don’t hear why not Ort. He’s 31 and a career minor leaguer. He’s probably been exposed to waivers before. Did he get claimed then?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If the Red Sox had protected Ward from the Rule 5 Draft and exposed Barnes instead, would any team drafting Matt have had to pay his full salary?

[jacksonianmarch]

Matt isn’t eligible for the Rule V. He’d have to be cut

[Bellhorn04]

Per Chad Jennings of The Athletic:

 

(Barnes) had a 7.94 ERA through the first two months of last season before missing the middle two months with right shoulder inflammation. When he returned, the results were better — a 1.59 ERA, with many of his outings in a closer’s role — but the strikeout rate wasn’t what it used to be, and the Red Sox were not convinced that the underlying data suggested Barnes was on a path to regaining his past success.

 

“Probably not, unfortunately,” one evaluator inside the organization said. “Tough to say (why). Just wasn’t the same.”

[notin]

If the Red Sox had protected Ward from the Rule 5 Draft and exposed Barnes instead, would any team drafting Matt have had to pay his full salary?

 

No because removing him from the 40 man would have been the same process in December as it was yesterday, and Barnes would have been even more likely to refuse assignment and become a free agent.

 

But if he hypothetically did accept assignment, it would have to be after clearing waivers, so the Sox still pay his salary…

[moonslav59]

Options aren’t the issue. There is no 26 man roster in January.

 

Any team claiming Barnes will take on his full salary. If Barnes clears waivers, he will very likely become a free agent. And any team signing him to an MLB contract might have to DFA someone themselves. But also by waiting until he clears waivers - Boston picks up the tab…

 

But I don’t hear why not Ort. He’s 31 and a career minor leaguer. He’s probably been exposed to waivers before. Did he get claimed then?

 

The 26 is certainly a consideration in January.

[moonslav59]

Per Chad Jennings of The Athletic:

 

(Barnes) had a 7.94 ERA through the first two months of last season before missing the middle two months with right shoulder inflammation. When he returned, the results were better — a 1.59 ERA, with many of his outings in a closer’s role — but the strikeout rate wasn’t what it used to be, and the Red Sox were not convinced that the underlying data suggested Barnes was on a path to regaining his past success.

 

“Probably not, unfortunately,” one evaluator inside the organization said. “Tough to say (why). Just wasn’t the same.”

 

So all the talk of him being the "7th inning" guy was just bluster to amp up his trade value?

[notin]

The 26 is certainly a consideration in January.

 

Not really. DFAs have nothing to do with it. Right now there only have a 40 man roster.

 

They’re probably not going to sign a slew of players with no options, but they also don’t know who is going to get injured once spring training begins.

 

That’s why players like Raimel Tapia and Jorge Alfaro don’t appear to matter just yet, but one of them will probably take Trevor Story’s place on the 40 man roster and probably 26 man active roster as well once Story can be placed on the 60 day IL…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No because removing him from the 40 man would have been the same process in December as it was yesterday, and Barnes would have been even more likely to refuse assignment and become a free agent.

 

But if he hypothetically did accept assignment, it would have to be after clearing waivers, so the Sox still pay his salary…

 

Thanks. There doesn't seem any reasonable way out of paying him what's left on his contract... unless Bloom wants to "sell" a few minor leaguers attached to a package in a trade for someone else's expendable (though "better-valued") roster filler.

[moonslav59]

Not really. DFAs have nothing to do with it. Right now there only have a 40 man roster.

 

They’re probably not going to sign a slew of players with no options, but they also don’t know who is going to get injured once spring training begins.

 

That’s why players like Raimel Tapia and Jorge Alfaro don’t appear to matter just yet, but one of them will probably take Trevor Story’s place on the 40 man roster and probably 26 man active roster as well once Story can be placed on the 60 day IL…

 

They certainly weigh players with options vs players without options when making decisions like this in January. That is about 26 man roster flexibility, and it matters.

 

One can wonder why Brasier with no options was kept over Barnes with no options, but keeping Ort, Mills and players with options might be the only reason they are still here.

 

Options are about the 26 and 40.

[moonslav59]

Thanks. There doesn't seem any reasonable way out of paying him what's left on his contract... unless Bloom wants to "sell" a few minor leaguers attached to a package in a trade for someone else's expendable (though "better-valued") roster filler.

 

I can't believe no team in need of pen help and has someone making $4-8M at another position they could part with wouldn't want Barnes.

 

Maybe he has just "lost it" and his nice end of year ERA hid that fact.

[Old Red]

So all the talk of him being the "7th inning" guy was just bluster to amp up his trade value?

 

I don’t think Barnes has to much trade value, and it sounds like Cora, and Bloom might not be on the same page.

[mvp 78]

Chaim Bloom talks about the decision to designate Matt Barnes for assignment:

 

https://nesn.com/2023/01/chaim-bloom-explains-difficult-decision-for-red-sox-to-dfa-matt-barnes/

 

It seems to me that they don't have a trade partner yet. They just feel that Brasier has the better upside.

[mvp 78]

I don’t think Barnes has to much trade value, and it sounds like Cora, and Bloom might not be on the same page.

 

I still remain positive on Barnes this season. I think he'll be a valuable arm somewhere. He won't be a late inning guy.

[Bellhorn04]

I can't believe no team in need of pen help and has someone making $4-8M at another position they could part with wouldn't want Barnes.

 

Maybe he has just "lost it" and his nice end of year ERA hid that fact.

 

Barnes will be pitching for some major league team this year...

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think Barnes has to much trade value, and it sounds like Cora, and Bloom might not be on the same page.

 

Our public relations and messaging continues to suck.

[mvp 78]

Our public relations and messaging continues to suck.

 

It's the dirt worst. Better say nothing at all.

[Hugh2]

A small market team that doesn't plan on contending could trade for Barnes, in the hopes that he has trade value at the deadline this year. Sox would probably have to eat most of his salary.

[Hugh2]

Mondesi is an exciting player, not a superstar but he will add a lot of value......for a few weeks. Jokes aside, it's a low risk high-reward gamble BUT what is your plan if he goes down? because given his history that is a massive concern.

[moonslav59]

Barnes will be pitching for some major league team this year...

 

I guess this is an example of us fans thinking our players are better than they are.

 

I know Barnes' salary is too high, but I can't believe nobody wanted him, if we pay part or most of his salary or take back a salary dump in return.

 

BTV is not the bible on player value, but they still have him with $3.1M value ($-6.7 after applying his $9.8M contract hit.) In theory, we could pay someone $7M to take him for nothing in return and save $2.8M on our budget. That's bare minimum.

 

If some GM really wanted him, you'd think they take him and $4-6M. I'm sure we floated his name out there, and I guess we got no replies, unless there is already a deal in place.

 

What I don't get is did something happen, recently? Why did we keep his on the 40 and let Ward go, if we knew he sucked at the end of the '22 season.

[moonslav59]

A small market team that doesn't plan on contending could trade for Barnes, in the hopes that he has trade value at the deadline this year. Sox would probably have to eat most of his salary.

 

Or, a team that has budget space and is hoping to contend, but also has major pen issues.

[notin]

Thanks. There doesn't seem any reasonable way out of paying him what's left on his contract... unless Bloom wants to "sell" a few minor leaguers attached to a package in a trade for someone else's expendable (though "better-valued") roster filler.

 

There’s only four ways out of paying Barnes’ deal:

 

1. Another team claims him on waivers. (Not happening.)

2. Sox can deal him before he clears waivers. (Not likely since option #1is not happening.)

3. Barnes gets hit with a season-long suspension for something. (Not very likely either.)

4. Barnes voluntarily retires. (Not happening).

[notin]

A small market team that doesn't plan on contending could trade for Barnes, in the hopes that he has trade value at the deadline this year. Sox would probably have to eat most of his salary.

 

If the goal is to not pay Barnes, that doesn’t help.

 

Barnes will pitch this year, and the Sox will be paying him to do so. But he won’t be wearing their uniform…

[mvp 78]

Mondesi is an exciting player, not a superstar but he will add a lot of value......for a few weeks. Jokes aside, it's a low risk high-reward gamble BUT what is your plan if he goes down? because given his history that is a massive concern.

 

If Mondesi goes down:

Kiké SS

Arroyo 2B

[mvp 78]

I guess this is an example of us fans thinking our players are better than they are.

 

I know Barnes' salary is too high, but I can't believe nobody wanted him, if we pay part or most of his salary or take back a salary dump in return.

 

BTV is not the bible on player value, but they still have him with $3.1M value ($-6.7 after applying his $9.8M contract hit.) In theory, we could pay someone $7M to take him for nothing in return and save $2.8M on our budget. That's bare minimum.

 

If some GM really wanted him, you'd think they take him and $4-6M. I'm sure we floated his name out there, and I guess we got no replies, unless there is already a deal in place.

 

What I don't get is did something happen, recently? Why did we keep his on the 40 and let Ward go, if we knew he sucked at the end of the '22 season.

 

Nobody wants him for 8M. I bet they could trade him and eat 6M. That's probably what they'll end up doing.

[moonslav59]

If Mondesi goes down:

Kiké SS

Arroyo 2B

 

Yes, if everyone is healthy- I know, big if, Mondesi plays over Arroyo.

[moonslav59]

Nobody wants him for 8M. I bet they could trade him and eat 6M. That's probably what they'll end up doing.

 

Yes, or take on a $4-8M contract from the other team.

[moonslav59]

With the booting of Barnes off the 40, Verdugo now is listed as 5th in 40 man roster seniority! Pivetta is 6th.

 

While several players were in the Sox system and added after Verdugo and Pivetta, this is now clearly Bloom's team.

 

Mata is 9th in seniority. Whitlock 11th. Even Refsnyder, Schreiber, Paxton & Story are top 20. Story was added 10 months ago and is 18th.

[mvp 78]

Yes, if everyone is healthy- I know, big if, Mondesi plays over Arroyo.

 

I'm mashing the Mondesi/Arroyo timeshare button.