A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[moonslav59]

Yes, winning fixes everything, but the wisdom of our team and our ownership is thrown into question by the 5 last place finishes in the last 11 years.

 

Last place finished really suck. I don't think any of them, except maybe 2020 were planned or expected by most fans, but that doesn't help with the pain.

 

We did finish in last place in 3 of JH's first 13 seasons, too, but the stretch from 2003 to 2011 with nothing worse than a 3rd place finish was something we all hoped would last and last. We were also 90-72 (2011) and 89-73 (2010) in those two 3rd place finish seasons and 86-76 in the other (2006)

 

What was the key to that 9 year stretch? Theo did inherit some key players like Manny, Papi, Damon, VTek, Nomar, Nixon, Pedro and D-Lowe, but we also had a solid farm and signed a bunch or free agents, while missing out on some of the biggest ones, like Tiexiera. Key trades for aces like Schilling and Beckett helped a lot.

 

It was a mix of a lot of things, but many times it was having a bunch of good role players like Wake, Millar, Lowell, Bellhorn, Mueller, Foulke and others.

 

They had a healthy mix of quality and quantity and a farm that provided an influx of help, when needed or offered up in trades for essential pieces to keeping the team winning, every year and securing 2 rings in those 9 years, while leaving a foundation for the 2013 team and a farm the supported the years after 2013.

[notin]

Let's put it this way: remember all those months in '04 when Nomar -- smiling and whooping -- greeted teammates at the plate, high-fiving, high-tenning, backwards knuckling, fake waving, two-stepping, moon-walking, face-whomping, robot-rapping... daily?

 

Me neither.

 

So you’re saying Nomar didn’t meet your standards for a good teammate? At least not when on camera?

 

That would be like me adding he must have been a good teammate because there were no stories from his teammates about how glad they were that he was gone.

 

By your logic, Jose Canseco was a great teammate with all the Bash Brothers stuff and high fiving with forearms. And then we can ignore Canseco singing like the Tabernacle Choir when it can time to name the names he needed to in order to get his book on the New York Times best seller list…

Edited January 1, 2023 by notin

[moonslav59]

But just looking at the trade itself, the Sox got back nothing. They just saved a lot of cash. That’s all…

 

Unlike the Betts-Price trade, that actually brought back more but did not lead to winning.

 

It did save us a lot of money, so in that way both Dodger trades were similar.

 

Note: Ben was allowed to spend the money saved on players for the 2013 team. Bloom was forced to not replace the Betts and Price savings and spend only enough to make up for losing Porcello and Pearce.

[moonslav59]

So you’re saying Nomar didn’t meet your standards for a good teammate? At least not when on camera?

 

That would be like me adding he must have been a good teammate because there were no stories from his teammates about how glad they were that he was gone…

 

I remember loving the trade day one, and telling my friends and family the trade was going to "bring us a ring." They all said, "Orlando who?"

 

It turns out SS defense does matter, and OCab did fine on offense, too.

 

I sensed the negative vibes on Nomar, whether they were media creations, or not. The guy apparently lied about his spring injury and then pouted about the contract offer. That's how I saw it- justified or not.

 

The team got fed up with him, knew they weren't bringing him back and traded him for another 2 month rental- and a defensive 1Bman. The rest is history.

[notin]

Unlike the Betts-Price trade, that actually brought back more but did not lead to winning.

 

It did save us a lot of money, so in that way both Dodger trades were similar.

 

Note: Ben was allowed to spend the money saved on players for the 2013 team. Bloom was forced to not replace the Betts and Price savings and spend only enough to make up for losing Porcello and Pearce.

 

 

That’s the big difference.

 

Both Dodger trades were straight up financial decisions. But only one of them allowed to re-use that money to better the team…

[notin]

I remember loving the trade day one, and telling my friends and family the trade was going to "bring us a ring." They all said, "Orlando who?"

 

It turns out SS defense does matter, and OCab did fine on offense, too.

 

I sensed the negative vibes on Nomar, whether they were media creations, or not. The guy apparently lied about his spring injury and then pouted about the contract offer. That's how I saw it- justified or not.

 

The team got fed up with him, knew they weren't bringing him back and traded him for another 2 month rental- and a defensive 1Bman. The rest is history.

 

Cabrera was OK. He was better than Nomar defensively by that stage in Nomar’s career, which was two Achilles’ injuries too long already. But the contributions from Mientkiewicz might have been a bit overstated…

[moonslav59]

Cabrera was OK. He was better than Nomar defensively by that stage in Nomar’s career, which was two Achilles’ injuries too long already. But the contributions from Mientkiewicz might have been a bit overstated…

 

I did not think I implied Doug M helped us in any major way.

 

IMO, OCab made a major difference, but maybe that was more about my just wanting my prediction to come true.

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So you’re saying Nomar didn’t meet your standards for a good teammate? At least not when on camera?

 

That would be like me adding he must have been a good teammate because there were no stories from his teammates about how glad they were that he was gone.

 

By your logic, Jose Canseco was a great teammate with all the Bash Brothers stuff and high fiving with forearms. And then we can ignore Canseco singing like the Tabernacle Choir when it can time to name the names he needed to in order to get his book on the New York Times best seller list…

 

Canseco might have been one of the best teammates ever -- as far as helping guys secure contracts that set them and their families up for life. He had the contacts and chemistry sets with the magic potions that puffed up ballplayers like the Michelin Man, which helped them break records and make millions. When you get the time, check out all the teammates he had who won statistical titles, awards and enshrinement (you may be surprised at some of the hallowed names).

 

Jose was also a genius. He loved home runs so much that only he could devise a way to use his noggin to boost a fly ball over the fence -- and score a goal with a classic soccer header at the same time.

[notin]

Canseco might have been one of the best teammates ever -- as far as helping guys secure contracts that set them and their families up for life. He had the contacts and chemistry sets with the magic potions that puffed up ballplayers like the Michelin Man, which helped them break records and make millions. When you get the time, check out all the teammates he had who won statistical titles, awards and enshrinement (you may be surprised at some of the hallowed names).

 

Jose was also a genius. He loved home runs so much that only he could devise a way to use his noggin to boost a fly ball over the fence -- and score a goal with a classic soccer header at the same time.

 

I suppose one could take the view of Canseco and his Jr. Oppenheimer Chemistry Kit as being very helpful to some of his teammates. Do you think he traded steroids for cocaine with Dave Stewart?

[Bellhorn04]

I did not think I implied Doug M helped us in any major way.

 

IMO, OCab made a major difference, but maybe that was more about my just wanting my prediction to come true.

 

 

No, Cabrera did make a difference. In the Yankee series we needed everyone to contribute, and he did.

[notin]

I did not think I implied Doug M helped us in any major way.

 

IMO, OCab made a major difference, but maybe that was more about my just wanting my prediction to come true.

 

 

 

 

Cabrera was actually a step down defensively.

 

His Rtot/yr of 2 and Rdrs/yr of 15 were a far, far cry from what Pokey Reese game the Sox (37,27) in the exact same number of games…

Edited January 1, 2023 by notin

[moonslav59]

Cabrera was actually a step down defensively.

 

His Rtot/yr of 2 and Rdrs/yr of 15 were a far, far cry from what Pokey Reese game the Sox (37,27) in the exact same number of games…

 

From Nomar to OCab was a big plus on D.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Cabrera was actually a step down defensively.

 

His Rtot/yr of 2 and Rdrs/yr of 15 were a far, far cry from what Pokey Reese game the Sox (37,27) in the exact same number of games…

 

Red Sox fan who watched every inning of the '04 postseason probably remembers that Cabrera was nails when it counted: 14 total games, 0 errors (and second only to Big Papi in BA, OBP and hits vs. the Yankees).

[notin]

From Nomar to OCab was a big plus on D.

 

Nomar barely played SS that year…

[Bellhorn04]

Nomar barely played SS that year…

 

311 innings for the Red Sox that year. But it was reported that Theo was alarmed by his apparent lack of mobility, and the team did some of their own charting of Nomar's range that confirmed he wasn't moving well at all.

[moonslav59]

Nomar barely played SS that year…

 

He missed April & May due to his lied about injury.

 

He was the FT SS, when he returned. From June 9th, his return date to his trade date, all of his starts were at SS, except one at DH.

 

He started 37 out of those Sox 45 games.

 

Dude, he was our starting and FT SS when we swapped him out for OCab.

[moonslav59]

We will need to add Turner and Kluber to the 40, real soon, so I'm thinking a deal or two might happen, any day.

 

Maybe someone like Brasier and/or Taylor get traded for a non 40 man roster prospect.

 

I love to see something like:

 

Duran, Brasier and Dalbec

 

for

 

M Rojas (SS MIA)

or

R Laureano (RF OAK)

 

BTV accepted:

 

Duran & Seabold for Laureano

and

Murphy, Dalbec & Feltman for M Rojas

Edited January 2, 2023 by moonslav59

[notin]

We will need to add Turner and Kluber to the 40, real soon, so I'm thinking a deal or two might happen, any day.

 

Maybe someone like Brasier and/or Taylor get traded for a non 40 man roster prospect.

 

I love to see something like:

 

Duran, Brasier and Dalbec

 

for

 

M Rojas (SS MIA)

or

R Laureano (RF OAK)

 

BTV accepted:

 

Duran & Seabold for Laureano

and

Murphy, Dalbec & Feltman for M Rojas

 

Most likely the Sox DFA two players they think will clear waivers. Candidates include:

 

Ort

Dalbec

Taylor

D Hernandez

Mills

Duran

[Bobe2]

Most likely the Sox DFA two players they think will clear waivers. Candidates include:

 

Ort

Dalbec

Taylor

D Hernandez

Mills

Duran

 

First mlb power ranking for 2023

MLB New Year's Power Rankings 2023

WWW.MLB.COM

---

While it’s still the offseason, the New Year provides a perfect mile-marker for baseball fans. It’s almost the halfway point between the World Series ending, and Spring Training games beginning. At MLB.com, we produce two way-too-early Power Rankings during the offseason. The first one lands before the confetti has even

[moonslav59]

Most likely the Sox DFA two players they think will clear waivers. Candidates include:

 

Ort

Dalbec

Taylor

D Hernandez

Mills

Duran

 

The list is getting better and better.

 

I seriously doubt it will be Mills, but the whole Chang trade and release was strange. BTW, Mills has an option, so he is staying around.

 

I think everyone on this list is tradable, and Brasier may actually be on a short list, now.

Edited January 2, 2023 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

First mlb power ranking for 2023

MLB New Year's Power Rankings 2023

WWW.MLB.COM

---

While it’s still the offseason, the New Year provides a perfect mile-marker for baseball fans. It’s almost the halfway point between the World Series ending, and Spring Training games beginning. At MLB.com, we produce two way-too-early Power Rankings during the offseason. The first one lands before the confetti has even

 

I think we were like 20th to end the 2022 season.

 

What do these guys know?

 

LOL!

[notin]

The list is getting better and better.

 

I seriously doubt it will be Mills, but the whole Chang trade and release was strange.

 

I think everyone on this list is tradable, and Brasier may actually be on a short list, now.

 

 

They’re looking to sneak people through waivers and keep them. Like they tried with Park and Downs.

 

Zero chance Brasier clears waivers.

 

Mills? Probably not. Ort and Taylor or Darwinzon. A trade of Dalbec for a non-40 man player is also possible…

[notin]

I think we were like 20th to end the 2022 season.

 

What do these guys know?

 

LOL!

 

I put zero faith in power rankings, but I would have had to lower it even more if the Sox had been ranked highly right now.

 

But it’s not like the season begins tomorrow…

[Bobe2]

I think we were like 20th to end the 2022 season.

 

What do these guys know?

 

LOL!

 

It kinda gives you and idea the kind of off-season we’re having compared to other teams, it’s great the farm is ranked higher but the team is definitely going in the wrong direction

[moonslav59]

It kinda gives you and idea the kind of off-season we’re having compared to other teams, it’s great the farm is ranked higher but the team is definitely going in the wrong direction

 

To me, the farm is the ultimate direction setter, going forward, but the 26 and 40 man roster has not progressed as much or as quickly as I had hoped, and certainly much worse than many has hoped.

 

In all fairness, I did think we look competitive, last March- after the Story signing. Wacha, Hill and Strahm overshot my expectations, but still we got worse with out wins and losses.

 

It's not easy projecting this team Just ask Jacko. The guy is like oh for his last 5.

[moonslav59]

I put zero faith in power rankings, but I would have had to lower it even more if the Sox had been ranked highly right now.

 

But it’s not like the season begins tomorrow…

 

To me, this team would be clearly better on paper if we added M Rojas and Laureano via trades plus Fulmer as the final FA addition. We'd still be significantly under the tax line, so we could add players at the deadline and would not have to part with major FAs to get Rojas and Laureano. There are other players we could trade for or sign, but this team would look like a playoff contender:

 

1. L Yoshida LF

2. R Story 2B

3. L Devers 3B

4. R Turner DH

5. L Casas 1B

6. R Kike CF

7. L Dugo/ R Laureano RF

8. R Rojas SS

9. L McGuire/R Wong C

Bench: Arroyo & Dalbec

 

SP: Sale/Paxton, Whitlock. Bello, Kluber, Pivetta (AAA: Crawford, Wink, Seabold, Mata, Walter, Murphy)

RP: Jansen, Martin, Houck, Fulmer, Schreiber, Barnes, Joely, Brasier (AAA: Taylor, Mills, Kelly, German, Ort, DHern)

[notin]

To me, the farm is the ultimate direction setter, going forward, but the 26 and 40 man roster has not progressed as much or as quickly as I had hoped, and certainly much worse than many has hoped.

 

In all fairness, I did think we look competitive, last March- after the Story signing. Wacha, Hill and Strahm overshot my expectations, but still we got worse with out wins and losses.

 

It's not easy projecting this team Just ask Jacko. The guy is like oh for his last 5.

 

 

I think there is also some vast differences of opinion on the definition of “competitive.”

 

The Sox were 3 games out of the last wild card on July 31. Is that competitive? Some will say yes, but others will not, and might even add on additional factors.

 

As it stands now, it’s very possible the Sox view last year as a success in that they helped grow the farm while meeting their definition of “staying competitive.”

 

All a theory, but hardly a ridiculous one…

[Bobe2]

I think there is also some vast differences of opinion on the definition of “competitive.”

 

The Sox were 3 games out of the last wild card on July 31. Is that competitive? Some will say yes, but others will not, and might even add on additional factors.

 

As it stands now, it’s very possible the Sox view last year as a success in that they helped grow the farm while meeting their definition of “staying competitive.”

 

All a theory, but hardly a ridiculous one…

 

If I ran a business and hired away a competitors operating manager and my business got worse and my competitors got better, it wouldn’t take me years to figure out I made a huge mistake

[Bellhorn04]

If I ran a business and hired away a competitors operating manager and my business got worse and my competitors got better, it wouldn’t take me years to figure out I made a huge mistake

 

OK, but as we know, there are a lot of fluctuations in the business of sport. The Red Sox did made it to the ALCS in 2021. And if they make the playoffs in 2023, Bloom will be 2 for 4 in playoff appearances and suddenly assessments of him will look much better.

 

Yes, that's a big if right now. But it does illustrate how fast things can change.

[dgalehouse]

First mlb power ranking for 2023

MLB New Year's Power Rankings 2023

WWW.MLB.COM

---

While it’s still the offseason, the New Year provides a perfect mile-marker for baseball fans. It’s almost the halfway point between the World Series ending, and Spring Training games beginning. At MLB.com, we produce two way-too-early Power Rankings during the offseason. The first one lands before the confetti has even

 

To be ranked down there with the bottom feeders of MLB is an insult and embarrassment to the Red Sox organization. I hope it serves as motivation to management and players to go out and prove this wrong.