A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[Bellhorn04]

Again, what should be expected when you have $20M to spend year 1 with 15 slots to fill, $20M to spend year 2 with 12 slots to fill and $40M to spend year 3 with 9 slots to fill?

 

It's not like he was signing guys for $217M/7 or $110M/5.

 

Well, to be technical about it...

 

DD signed JD for 5/110 before his third season.

 

Bloom signed Story for 6/140 before his third season.

[Old Red]

Sorry for the spin. And all along I was thinking that Bloom actually traded Mookie. Feel free to use your imagination and make up any scenario that suits you.

 

That’s his calling card. Right, or wrong, and mostly wrong day by day. It’s a curse! Not a gift.

[Bellhorn04]

This is the " disarray " that Dombrowski left for Bloom : Betts, Benintendi, JBJ, Devers, Bogaerts, J.D. Martinez, Vazquez, Sale, Eovaldi, E-Rod, Price, Barnes, Brasier, Workman and others. All that are left now are Devers, Sale and Brasier.

 

Some context is necessary, though...the Sale and Price left for Bloom were very expensive and very useless.

[Old Red]

No. I actually pointed out not looking at the cost.

 

Man, you really cannot understand simple English.

 

I worry about the cost of the payroll as much as JH worries about the HIGH cost of ticket prices.

[Old Red]

Some context is necessary, though...the Sale and Price left for Bloom were very expensive and very useless.

 

Two bad moves for sure. The extension for Sale, and substituting Price at a lot higher cost than Lester did not help the payroll situation.

[Bellhorn04]

Sorry for the spin. And all along I was thinking that Bloom actually traded Mookie. Feel free to use your imagination and make up any scenario that suits you.

 

Why was Mookie not signed to an extension by that point, only one year from free agency? Surely that has to enter any reasonable conversation on the subject.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So, we keep Beni and not sign Renfroe.

 

Do we keep JBJ after 2020, because he was one of our core players and was coming off a decent season?

 

Should we have kept Kimbrell, Kelly before 2019? How about ERod? Porcello?

 

How would you cut $60M from the 2019 budget and still keep all our favorite players?

 

I wish we could have, too.

 

I just don't blame Bloom for the mandates.

 

You know it's not just about 2019. Looking at the majority of your list of 18 names, there were a lot of Bloom acquisitions the past three years who were good and fit in -- Iglesias, Wacha, Schwarber (omg - where would we play a Home Run King) -- but not retained... even Strahm looked decent and wasn't part of the problem in the pen.

 

I'm trying to give the guy credit for picking up these players who looked like keepers. I just detest his strategy of constantly recycling them for the next worst thing to save value... and I get this was the reason Henry hired Bloom -- which makes it all the more deplorable for a fan not interested in collecting baseball cards of faceless Red Sox uniforms.

[Bellhorn04]

I worry about the cost of the payroll as much as JH worries about the HIGH cost of ticket prices.

 

We only worry about the payroll because we know JH does. That's the only explanation for why guys like Betts and Bogaerts are gone, after all.

[Bellhorn04]

You know it's not just about 2019. Looking at the majority of your list of 18 names, there were a lot of Bloom acquisitions the past three years who were good and fit in -- Iglesias, Wacha, Schwarber (omg - where would we play a Home Run King) -- but not retained... even Strahm looked decent and wasn't part of the problem in the pen.

 

I'm trying to give the guy credit for picking up these players who looked like keepers. I just detest his strategy of constantly recycling them for the next worst thing to save value... and I get this was the reason Henry hired Bloom -- which makes it all the more deplorable for a fan not interested in collecting baseball cards of faceless Red Sox uniforms.

 

I get what you're saying, but there are some exceptions to the recycling.

 

Whitlock

Kike

Story

Raffy

Yoshida

 

I think there will be more to come.

[Old Red]

You know it's not just about 2019. Looking at the majority of your list of 18 names, there were a lot of Bloom acquisitions the past three years who were good and fit in -- Iglesias, Wacha, Schwarber (omg - where would we play a Home Run King) -- but not retained... even Strahm looked decent and wasn't part of the problem in the pen.

 

I'm trying to give the guy credit for picking up these players who looked like keepers. I just detest his strategy of constantly recycling them for the next worst thing to save value... and I get this was the reason Henry hired Bloom -- which makes it all the more deplorable for a fan not interested in collecting baseball cards of faceless Red Sox uniforms.

 

But in the Renfroe/ JBJ disaster it cost more, and going over the dreaded tax last year, and getting worse doing it was just incompetence, and JH has the Gaul to up ticket prices to go watch that mess. What a deal.

[Old Red]

Why was Mookie not signed to an extension by that point, only one year from free agency? Surely that has to enter any reasonable conversation on the subject.

 

Mookie should have been signed, and it sounded like there wasn’t much counter offering going on before Mookie came back with the $420M

[Old Red]

We only worry about the payroll because we know JH does. That's the only explanation for why guys like Betts and Bogaerts are gone, after all.

 

I do get that, but it’s still hard to worry when you know JH could afford it, and he keeps raising ticket prices good team, or bad.

[dgalehouse]

Some context is necessary, though...the Sale and Price left for Bloom were very expensive and very useless.

 

I think Sale, Eovaldi and Price made up the start of a good rotation. Injuries happen. Now the second guess is that the two extensions were dumb moves. Price, of course, was dealt along with Mookie, while still paying half his salary. By the way, the Sale story is not finished as yet. The Sox ( and Bloom ) are still counting on him. My point was that Bloom inherited a lot of talent, not by any means a mess. He has pretty much disassembled the team and has not gotten very good results . There is no justification for blaming his failures on Dombrowski.

[notin]

This is the " disarray " that Dombrowski left for Bloom : Betts, Benintendi, JBJ, Devers, Bogaerts, J.D. Martinez, Vazquez, Sale, Eovaldi, E-Rod, Price, Barnes, Brasier, Workman and others. All that are left now are Devers, Sale and Brasier.

 

You forgot how much they cost.

 

Also, you seriously think Price was an asset by 2020? Heck, was Sale?

[moonslav59]

I worry about the cost of the payroll as much as JH worries about the HIGH cost of ticket prices.

 

Pretending the budget did not matter says it all about you and Dale, but remember, you brought it up, not me.

[moonslav59]

Two bad moves for sure. The extension for Sale, and substituting Price at a lot higher cost than Lester did not help the payroll situation.

 

No mention of not extending Betts, when he had the better opportunity.

 

No mention of giving Bogey an opt out, instead of just paying him more, when the opportunity was greatest.

 

No mention of creating the budget JH felt went too far and needed slashing.

 

No mention of the 5 year farm drought you hate me repeating.

 

Besides all this, DD did what needed to be done to win the division 3 years ina row and the great 2018 ring season. It was all worth it, to me, but why pretend the rest did not happen?

[dgalehouse]

Why was Mookie not signed to an extension by that point, only one year from free agency? Surely that has to enter any reasonable conversation on the subject.

 

Signing Mookie to an extension is a narrative that is pushed here by a couple of posters. It is very difficult to lock up a player of that caliber . They do like to taste free agency. And he was still under contract for 2020. Bloom traded him. That is a fact , not speculation.

[moonslav59]

I think Sale, Eovaldi and Price made up the start of a good rotation. Injuries happen. Now the second guess is that the two extensions were dumb moves. Price, of course, was dealt along with Mookie, while still paying half his salary. By the way, the Sale story is not finished as yet. The Sox ( and Bloom ) are still counting on him. My point was that Bloom inherited a lot of talent, not by any means a mess. He has pretty much disassembled the team and has not gotten very good results . There is no justification for blaming his failures on Dombrowski.

 

Not by any means a mess?

 

While it may not be DD's fault many of the stars declined or got hurt, some saw the Sale in jury as a given.

 

5 years with the fram giving just Houck cannot be viewed as a "mess?"

 

Being handed a budget and being told to slash $60M is not a "mess?"

 

Maybe we have different ideas on what the word "mess" means, but not by "any means?"

 

That's laughable.

[moonslav59]

You forgot how much they cost.

 

Also, you seriously think Price was an asset by 2020? Heck, was Sale?

 

... and these revisionist posters call us spin masters!

[Old Red]

No mention of not extending Betts, when he had the better opportunity.

 

No mention of giving Bogey an opt out, instead of just paying him more, when the opportunity was greatest.

 

No mention of creating the budget JH felt went too far and needed slashing.

 

No mention of the 5 year farm drought you hate me repeating.

 

Besides all this, DD did what needed to be done to win the division 3 years ina row and the great 2018 ring season. It was all worth it, to me, but why pretend the rest did not happen?

 

Ah couldn’t do a post without the 5 yr farm drought that we have heard about for the 1000th time now. We can pick apart every move DD made with the Red Sox, but he is gone, and Bloom is on his 4th year now, and all the bad things DD did to get get 4 winning seasons a a WS championship does not take away all the bad moves, blunders, and botched 3rd options in the fork in the road that Bloom had made no matter how many times you try to make it that way. BOO! You would get boo’d too like JH, and Bloom did if you got up, and tried to tell a crowd of Red Sox Nation some of your spins, and yes I would LMAO.

[moonslav59]

Ah couldn’t do a post without the 5 yr farm drought that we have heard about for the 1000th time now. We can pick apart every move DD made with the Red Sox, but he is gone, and Bloom is on his 4th year now, and all the bad things DD did to get get 4 winning seasons a a WS championship does not take away all the bad moves, blunders, and botched 3rd options in the fork in the road that Bloom had made no matter how many times you try to make it that way. BOO! You would get boo’d too like JH, and Bloom did if you got up, and tried to tell a crowd of Red Sox Nation some of your spins, and yes I would LMAO.

 

Laugh away.

 

Funny how you roasted me when I listed Bloom's biggest mistakes and did not mention no Bogey extension, yet you do worse with DD and spin it all away into blather.

[moonslav59]

Ah couldn’t do a post without the 5 yr farm drought that we have heard about for the 1000th time now. We can pick apart every move DD made with the Red Sox, but he is gone, and Bloom is on his 4th year now, and all the bad things DD did to get get 4 winning seasons a a WS championship does not take away all the bad moves, blunders, and botched 3rd options in the fork in the road that Bloom had made no matter how many times you try to make it that way. BOO! You would get boo’d too like JH, and Bloom did if you got up, and tried to tell a crowd of Red Sox Nation some of your spins, and yes I would LMAO.

 

You also still don't get the fact that I loved DD and was 100% behind his plan. I still have zero issues with what he did and didn't do.

 

I just don't stick my head in the sand about the consequences of building that fantastic window.

[Old Red]

laugh away.

 

Funny how you roasted me when i listed bloom's biggest mistakes and did not mention no bogey extension, yet you do worse with dd and spin it all away into blather.

 

b o o, b o o, b o o! Lmao. B o o, b o o, b o o!

[moonslav59]

b o o, b o o, b o o! Lmao. B o o, b o o, b o o!

 

That's the most sense you'll ever make.

[moonslav59]

Significant Sox Transaction Since the End of 2022's Season

 

QOs given to Eovaldi & Bogaerts

 

Avoided arb signings:

Refsnyder

J Taylor

Brasier

Pivetta

Arroyo

Verdugo

McGuire

 

Signed:

Joely Rodriguez

Chris Martin

Kenley Jansen

Masataka Yoshida

Rafael Devers (extended)

Justin Turner

Corey Kluber

Adam Duvall

 

Trades:

Jacob Wallace for Wyatt Mills

Connor Seabold for PTBNL or cash

Josh Taylor for Adalberto Mondesi

Matt Barnes + cash for Richard Bleier

Frank German for Theo Denlinger

 

Signed international free agents: Yoeilin Cespedes, Marcos Almanzar, Franklin Arias, Luis Arredondo, Obed Balderas, Alex Castillo, Albert Chalas, Nixson Cueche, Raimundo De Los Santos, Chad Delancey, Geiser Figueroa, Jesus Garcia, Nathanael German, Liosward Marin, Andruw Musett, Starlyn Nunez, Gerardo Rodriguez, Ricardo Rodriguez, Wuilliams Rodriguez, Yoiber Ruiz, Kleyver Salazar, Argeny Sanchez, Moises Semerite, Jhoan Solarte, and Stijn Van Der Schaaf, Nicolas de la Cruz

 

Key minor league signings:

Jorge Alfaro

Edwin Diaz

Raimel Tapia

Narisco Crook

Greg Allen, Ryan Sheriff, Matt Dermody

 

Lost to Rule 5:

Thad Ward

Noah Song

Andrew Politi

[cp176]

Even the hint that Bloom is in the same category as Dombrowski at this point in his career is a joke. There is virtually no comparison. Liking or disliking DD's moves makes no difference. One has climbed to the top on more than one occasion, the other not so much. it really shouldn't even be debatable which of the two has accomplished more. Bloom has and has had the job now for awhile and hopefully we'll see some positive gains soon. He has had enough time. I just find the majority of his moves to be kind of blah almost as if he just wants to get rid of any player with ties to past leadership. I really doubt that Devers would have been signed if not for immense public pressure. Someone mentioned the signing of Mayer to be a great sign as if it was unexpected - really? i think that he kind of stood out. Simply adding depth to our minor league system isn't enough to excite me. I hope that whatever he is doing works going forward.

[Bellhorn04]

Signing Mookie to an extension is a narrative that is pushed here by a couple of posters. It is very difficult to lock up a player of that caliber . They do like to taste free agency. And he was still under contract for 2020. Bloom traded him. That is a fact , not speculation.

 

Dombrowski failed to sign Betts to an extension. That's a fact too. You just don't like that one as much, for obvious reasons.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Even the hint that Bloom is in the same category as Dombrowski at this point in his career is a joke. There is virtually no comparison. Liking or disliking DD's moves makes no difference. One has climbed to the top on more than one occasion, the other not so much. it really shouldn't even be debatable which of the two has accomplished more. Bloom has and has had the job now for awhile and hopefully we'll see some positive gains soon. He has had enough time. I just find the majority of his moves to be kind of blah almost as if he just wants to get rid of any player with ties to past leadership. I really doubt that Devers would have been signed if not for immense public pressure. Someone mentioned the signing of Mayer to be a great sign as if it was unexpected - really? i think that he kind of stood out. Simply adding depth to our minor league system isn't enough to excite me. I hope that whatever he is doing works going forward.

 

Maybe with better depth in the minors, we'll finally get to see Bloom start to swing a few more trades, which is supposedly one of his strengths we have not seem much of -- as far as bringing in high quality contributors that become core roster members. It sure doesn't look like he wants to give up young talent for any talent... yet.

 

But looking at how recent blockbusters have worked out for others, can we blame the boss of a bad team for hanging on to the future (even if that means he's gone before it becomes the present)?

 

Look at what San Diego gave up for Soto, or what Seattle gave for Castillo, or LA for Scherzer and Turner -- and none of them made the World Series. At least the M's extended Castillo, so there's hope for their future...

[Bellhorn04]

Even the hint that Bloom is in the same category as Dombrowski at this point in his career is a joke. There is virtually no comparison. Liking or disliking DD's moves makes no difference. One has climbed to the top on more than one occasion, the other not so much. it really shouldn't even be debatable which of the two has accomplished more. Bloom has and has had the job now for awhile and hopefully we'll see some positive gains soon. He has had enough time. I just find the majority of his moves to be kind of blah almost as if he just wants to get rid of any player with ties to past leadership. I really doubt that Devers would have been signed if not for immense public pressure. Someone mentioned the signing of Mayer to be a great sign as if it was unexpected - really? i think that he kind of stood out. Simply adding depth to our minor league system isn't enough to excite me. I hope that whatever he is doing works going forward.

 

But see how you're putting down two good moves like Mayer and Devers as if Bloom gets no credit for them?

 

It's like when people who don't like Dombrowski say he shouldn't get any credit just for spending a pile of money on guys like Price and JDM.

 

It's easy to do. If you like the guy, you find things to credit him for and ignore things he should be blamed for. And vice versa.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe with better depth in the minors, we'll finally get to see Bloom start to swing a few more trades, which is supposedly one of his strengths we have not seem much of -- as far as bringing in high quality contributors that become core roster members. It sure doesn't look like he wants to give up young talent for any talent... yet.

 

But looking at how recent blockbusters have worked out for others, can we blame the boss of a bad team for hanging on to the future (even if that means he's gone before it becomes the present)?

 

Look at what San Diego gave up for Soto, or what Seattle gave for Castillo, or LA for Scherzer and Turner -- and none of them made the World Series. At least the M's extended Castillo, so there's hope for their future...

 

The Dodgers have cut way back on payroll this year, although they're still not under the first threshold, which is all kind of interesting - if you're into this crap like me, anyway.