Path to relevance

[moonslav59]

He was handed Pedroia's unfortunately dead money too.

 

I don't think Pedey should count. He had a healthy .825 OPS in 2016 under DD. He got hurt under DD's era. He wasn't handed deadwood.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think Pedey should count. He had a healthy .825 OPS in 2016 under DD. He got hurt under DD's era. He wasn't handed deadwood.

 

Fair enough.

[notin]

I don't think Pedey should count. He had a healthy .825 OPS in 2016 under DD. He got hurt under DD's era. He wasn't handed deadwood.

 

No to mention he gave the Sox a massive discount with that contract…

[moonslav59]

Speaking of foundations and Deadwood, here's a rough breakdown each GM had when they started:

 

Theo/Port:

Foundation: Manny, Nomar, Nixon, VTek, Pedro, Lowe, Wake, Arroyo

Farm: HRam, Youk, F Sanchez, Shoppach, de la Rosa

Deadwood: Offerman

 

Ben:

Foundation: Ortiz, AGon, Pedey, Ellsbury, JD Drew, Youk, Beckett, Lester, Lackey, Buch

Farm: Middlebrooks, Kalish, Bogey, Iggy, Barnes, Doubront

Deadwood: Crawford, Dice K

 

DD:

Foundation: Papi, Manny, Betts, Bogey, Pedey, JBJ, Napoli, ERod, Porcello, Buch, Uehara

Farm: Devers, Beni, Moncada, Kopech, Margot, Espinoza, Guerra, Dubon

Deadwood: HRam, Pablito & Rusney

 

Bloom:

Foundation: Betts, Bogey, Devers, Beni, JBJ, JD, Vaz, ERod, Eovaldi, Barnes, Workman

Farm: Casas, Mata, Dalbec, Duran, Houck, Groome, Jimenez, Ward, Lugo, Rafaela

Deadwood: Price, Sale

 

Note: I just threw this together. There are probably some omissions and mistakes.

[JDavis76]

Only because the strong foundation was already there.

 

And Dave was only able to do what he did because the strong foundation was already there.

 

One could argue that he did what was necessary to put them over the top

[moonslav59]

One could argue that he did what was necessary to put them over the top

 

Really? I’ve never heard this before. So enlightening!

[Nick]

I don't think Pedey should count. He had a healthy .825 OPS in 2016 under DD. He got hurt under DD's era. He wasn't handed deadwood.

 

I call f***ing Bull s*** to everyone of you that keep claiming Dustin gave us a team discount.

 

He played 3 games in 2018, 6 games in 2019, 0 games in 2020 and 20121

 

Red Sox essentially paid him $110M for 4 healthy seasons, average of $28.5M per year. (obviously less if you discount the shortened 2020 season)

 

He also ONLY played 93 games in 2015, 105 games in 2017. What a f***ing discount.

 

Don't f***ing sugar coat it. It ended up being a BAD CONTRACT.

 

Tell me how in the hell you're going to defend that to Henry?

 

Same thing may ended up being applied to Chris Sale.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

I call f***ing Bull s*** to everyone of you that keep claiming Dustin gave us a team discount.

 

And I call f***ing Bull s*** to you for claiming that Dustin didn't give us a team discount because he got injured later.

[JDavis76]

And I call f***ing Bull s*** to you for claiming that Dustin didn't give us a team discount because he got injured later.

 

And I call who really f***ing cares? It didn't work out due to injury, case closed.

[moonslav59]

I call f***ing Bull s*** to everyone of you that keep claiming Dustin gave us a team discount.

 

He played 3 games in 2018, 6 games in 2019, 0 games in 2020 and 20121

 

Red Sox essentially paid him $110M for 4 healthy seasons, average of $28.5M per year. (obviously less if you discount the shortened 2020 season)

 

He also ONLY played 93 games in 2015, 105 games in 2017. What a f***ing discount.

 

Don't f***ing sugar coat it. It ended up being a BAD CONTRACT.

 

Tell me how in the hell you're going to defend that to Henry?

 

Same thing may ended up being applied to Chris Sale.

 

It's not sugar coating to point out the timing of when Pedey got hurt.

 

DD was not handed a deadwood contract. Pedey did very well in DD's first year (2016). He turned into deadwood after 2016.

 

When Bloom took over the team after 2019, Price and Sale we already deadwood. Neither gave Bloom any production worth note.

[Nick]

And I call f***ing Bull s*** to you for claiming that Dustin didn't give us a team discount because he got injured later.

 

Say what you want, this is why you don't give out 8 year deals.

 

You're pretty level headed guy. Apparently you didn't like my use of the words, "f***ing ********".

 

Same goes for extending both Sale and Barnes when YOU DIDN'T have to extend them when Sox did.

 

Is it any wonder that Henry has not allowed Bloom to approach Eovaldi with contract extension? And he's pitching well.

 

My guess is Henry rather pay little more to make sure Eovaldi is healthy when the extension offer is made. ie after he becomes FA.

 

You don't give out non athletic guy that stands 5'6" tall an 8 year deal.

[moonslav59]

Say what you want, this is why you don't give out 8 year deals.

 

You're pretty level headed guy. Apparently you didn't like my use of the words, "f***ing ********".

 

Same goes for extending both Sale and Barnes when YOU DIDN'T have to extend them when Sox did.

 

Is it any wonder that Henry has not allowed Bloom to approach Eovaldi with contract extension? And he's pitching well.

 

My guess is Henry rather pay little more to make sure Eovaldi is healthy when the extension offer is made. ie after he becomes FA.

 

You don't give out non athletic guy that stands 5'6" tall an 8 year deal.

 

Some might take issue with the non athletic statement.

[Old Red]

Some might take issue with the non athletic statement.

 

Might not be as athletic as Story, but he more than made up for it.

[moonslav59]

Might not be as athletic as Story, but he more than made up for it.

 

He was the original dirt dog, but he also seemed to make a lot of really spectacular defensive plays. Looked pretty athletic, to me. (Speed is not the only trait of an athlete.)

[Old Red]

He was the original dirt dog, but he also seemed to make a lot of really spectacular defensive plays. Looked pretty athletic, to me. (Speed is not the only trait of an athlete.)

 

He definitely got the most of what he had, and went all out to do it.

[moonslav59]

He definitely got the most of what he had, and went all out to do it.

 

Lots of fun memories.

 

Efin Machado!

[notin]

I call f***ing Bull s*** to everyone of you that keep claiming Dustin gave us a team discount.

 

He played 3 games in 2018, 6 games in 2019, 0 games in 2020 and 20121

 

Red Sox essentially paid him $110M for 4 healthy seasons, average of $28.5M per year. (obviously less if you discount the shortened 2020 season)

 

He also ONLY played 93 games in 2015, 105 games in 2017. What a f***ing discount.

 

Don't f***ing sugar coat it. It ended up being a BAD CONTRACT.

 

Tell me how in the hell you're going to defend that to Henry?

 

Same thing may ended up being applied to Chris Sale.

 

Right. That was Pedroia’s plan all along. Sign an 8 year deal and then pay Machado to kneecap him…

[notin]

Say what you want, this is why you don't give out 8 year deals.

 

You're pretty level headed guy. Apparently you didn't like my use of the words, "f***ing ********".

 

Same goes for extending both Sale and Barnes when YOU DIDN'T have to extend them when Sox did.

 

Is it any wonder that Henry has not allowed Bloom to approach Eovaldi with contract extension? And he's pitching well.

 

My guess is Henry rather pay little more to make sure Eovaldi is healthy when the extension offer is made. ie after he becomes FA.

 

You don't give out non athletic guy that stands 5'6" tall an 8 year deal.

 

Dude, it didn’t work out but it’s also not the San me as Sale’s contract. But when you look at Cano getting nearly 3 times as much ( and not for being 3 times the player), Pedroia gave the Sox a discount.

 

Sale was injured when extended. That is looking more and more like a stupid move every day.,.

[Larry Cook]

We are leaving Oakland back at .500!

 

Been a long time coming!

[Nick]

Of course major leaguers are better athletes than 99% of the posters here. By that standard, yes Pedey was great athlete.

 

Dustin was very good baseball player.

 

But the bottom line is we paid him $28.5M per year for 4 seasons (2 of which he did not play a full season). And of course we can't predict the future.

 

But the lookback from Henry's perspective is that he'll be cautious about giving out 8 year deals, even to a position player.

 

He did not make contributions in 2018 when we won the world series.

 

All your buddies can stick together, Notin, Bellhorne, Old Red and Moon, but the contract was a bust.

[Larry Cook]

Of course major leaguers are better athletes than 99% of the posters here. By that standard, yes Pedey was great athlete.

 

Dustin was very good baseball player.

 

But the bottom line is we paid him $28.5M per year for 4 seasons (2 of which he did not play a full season). And of course we can't predict the future.

 

But the lookback from Henry's perspective is that he'll be cautious about giving out 8 year deals, even to a position player.

 

He did not make contributions in 2018 when we won the world series.

 

All your buddies can stick together, Notin, Bellhorne, Old Red and Moon, but the contract was a bust.

 

The danger of guaranteed contracts.

[oldtimer]

Of course major leaguers are better athletes than 99% of the posters here. By that standard, yes Pedey was great athlete.

 

Dustin was very good baseball player.

 

But the bottom line is we paid him $28.5M per year for 4 seasons (2 of which he did not play a full season). And of course we can't predict the future.

 

But the lookback from Henry's perspective is that he'll be cautious about giving out 8 year deals, even to a position player.

 

He did not make contributions in 2018 when we won the world series.

 

All your buddies can stick together, Notin, Bellhorne, Old Red and Moon, but the contract was a bust.

 

Every front office makes contract mistakes. We are no different and have made some commitments that a more courageous and wise front office would not have made. Kimmi often is against extremely long contracts and I agree with her in that respect, even if it means parting with a very talented player. In addition offering expensive and long term contracts based on a player you should know is injured or going past their prime may be deciding with your heart and not your head. The effects of those decisions limit a team's competitiveness unless their is unlimited money. Not many teams are in that category. The talk here has been about Pedey and Sale. We are also now still dealing with the Price and Barnes contracts. Bring on Billy Ball. No more foolishness if we are to achieve Bloom's stated competitiveness objectives.

[moonslav59]

Of course major leaguers are better athletes than 99% of the posters here. By that standard, yes Pedey was great athlete.

 

Dustin was very good baseball player.

 

But the bottom line is we paid him $28.5M per year for 4 seasons (2 of which he did not play a full season). And of course we can't predict the future.

 

But the lookback from Henry's perspective is that he'll be cautious about giving out 8 year deals, even to a position player.

 

He did not make contributions in 2018 when we won the world series.

 

All your buddies can stick together, Notin, Bellhorne, Old Red and Moon, but the contract was a bust.

 

That wasn't what the debate was about. It was about the contract being a "discount" and later about whether he was a deadwood contract when DD took over control.

 

Of course, the injury made the contract an overall bust. I don't think anyone is saying it was not.

[jacksonianmarch]

When Pedroia signed, he took a discount. In retrospect, he was vastly overpaid. But if he wanted to go to the market at the time he signed his contract, he’d have made a lot more money

[jacksonianmarch]

Also, the AL is a collection of have’s and have-not’s with very few in between teams. The White Sox, Angels, and Sox fit in that category. Maybe the Guardians as well. But of all those teams, the angels have the most talent but have also been perennial under performers. The Sox have really put themselves in a good position to hold that third wild card spot. If they can do some damage in Anaheim they’ll make it easier

[mvp 78]

I call f***ing Bull s*** to everyone of you that keep claiming Dustin gave us a team discount.

 

He played 3 games in 2018, 6 games in 2019, 0 games in 2020 and 20121

 

Red Sox essentially paid him $110M for 4 healthy seasons, average of $28.5M per year. (obviously less if you discount the shortened 2020 season)

 

He also ONLY played 93 games in 2015, 105 games in 2017. What a f***ing discount.

 

Don't f***ing sugar coat it. It ended up being a BAD CONTRACT.

 

Tell me how in the hell you're going to defend that to Henry?

 

Same thing may ended up being applied to Chris Sale.

 

They should have traded him in 2014.

[mvp 78]

And I call f***ing Bull s*** to you for claiming that Dustin didn't give us a team discount because he got injured later.

 

What does that have to do with it not being a team discount? It was the highest 2b contract at the time it was signed.

 

It was long and due to his playing style, it was destined that Dustin was going to be in the dust bin before that contract was over.

[mvp 78]

He was the original dirt dog, but he also seemed to make a lot of really spectacular defensive plays. Looked pretty athletic, to me. (Speed is not the only trait of an athlete.)

 

Wrong. So very wrong. That's Trot Nixon.

[Bellhorn04]

What does that have to do with it not being a team discount? It was the highest 2b contract at the time it was signed.

 

Yeah, we've been through this one a few times...

 

It can be at a discount and still be the highest. Not mutually exclusive.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, we've been through this one a few times...

 

It can be at a discount and still be the highest. Not mutually exclusive.

 

That's not true.

 

I don't even know why we're talking about this old s*** anymore. He was signed a decade ago. He's off the books. It doesn't matter.

 

I was right all along, BTW.