How much would you offer Devers?

[moonslav59]

Bogey and devers are franchise cornerstones. You do what you need to do to keep them. You use your minor league system to bring in young (future) promising players around then and fill the rest of the roster with short term free agents.

 

Aka ….. the Atlanta blue print.

 

Atlanta rarely pays b ig for anyone, even their own.

 

I don't think our minor league system is strong and deep enough to fill all the holes we will have. We will need some money to fill the holes our farm can't fill. Some of our best prospects are too far away or too questionable to count on.

 

We also have to re-sign or replace...

 

JD

Wacha

Hill

Strahm

Kike

 

Counting on Sale or Paxton my be a pipedream.

[Larry Cook]

Atlanta rarely pays b ig for anyone, even their own.

 

I don't think our minor league system is strong and deep enough to fill all the holes we will have. We will need some money to fill the holes our farm can't fill. Some of our best prospects are too far away or too questionable to count on.

 

We also have to re-sign or replace...

 

JD

Wacha

Hill

Strahm

Kike

 

Counting on Sale or Paxton my be a pipedream.

 

And that is the rub for Hang’em Chaim. How to be competitive while needing to rebuild a decimated farm system!

 

2020 was a total reset. I get it.

 

2021, we were two wins from the World Series. That was the very rare circumstance where everything falls our way! Probably not going to happen that way again!

 

2022 hang’em Chaim did all but one thing correctly when it comes to roster building. And that one thing he bungled has killed us. He did not get a closer. 11 blown saves (and counting)is the anchor killing us thus far this season.

 

Meanwhile, our farm system is a bit of a donut. Some very high ceiling prospects in Worcester and Salem. Much less overall talent in Greenville and Portland. He needs more time and a couple more drafts to get this fixed!

[moonslav59]

And that is the rub for Hang’em Chaim. How to be competitive while needing to rebuild a decimated farm system!

 

2020 was a total reset. I get it.

 

2021, we were two wins from the World Series. That was the very rare circumstance where everything falls our way! Probably not going to happen that way again!

 

2022 hang’em Chaim did all but one thing correctly when it comes to roster building. And that one thing he bungled has killed us. He did not get a closer. 11 blown saves (and counting)is the anchor killing us thus far this season.

 

Meanwhile, our farm system is a bit of a donut. Some very high ceiling prospects in Worcester and Salem. Much less overall talent in Greenville and Portland. He needs more time and a couple more drafts to get this fixed!

 

To me, being a bit over simplistic here, we have too many holes to fill to spend so much of our budget over the next 5-10 years on Bogey and Devers. Signing one seems doable, and to me, Devers is the obvious choice.

 

If our farm had 6-8 guys that we ML ready to step in and fill all the other gaps we will have, then maybe, but that seems too far away to spend this big, now on both of these stars.

 

[mvp 78]

@Jared_Carrabis

Mookie Betts on April 26: .190 with a .646 OPS.

 

Mookie Betts MLB ranks since April 26: .362 BA (5th), .762 SLG (2nd), 1.186 OPS (2nd), 47 hits (3rd), 14 HR (1st), 24 XBH (2nd), 99 total bases (1st).

 

Just remember, we need to make sure we care about Henry's wallet and not re-sign the best ballplayers we have.

[notin]

To me, being a bit over simplistic here, we have too many holes to fill to spend so much of our budget over the next 5-10 years on Bogey and Devers. Signing one seems doable, and to me, Devers is the obvious choice.

 

If our farm had 6-8 guys that we ML ready to step in and fill all the other gaps we will have, then maybe, but that seems too far away to spend this big, now on both of these stars.

 

 

You sign players when they’re available, not when the farm system makes it convenient.

 

You can always trade lower level minor league talent for players closer to MLB, and this gets done more easily with teams having 40 man roster crunch issues…

[mvp 78]

To me, being a bit over simplistic here, we have too many holes to fill to spend so much of our budget over the next 5-10 years on Bogey and Devers. Signing one seems doable, and to me, Devers is the obvious choice.

 

If our farm had 6-8 guys that we ML ready to step in and fill all the other gaps we will have, then maybe, but that seems too far away to spend this big, now on both of these stars.

 

 

"We have too many holes to fill to spend on Devers and Xander for the next 5 years."

 

If the farm can't fill those holes within 5 years, Bloom should be sent to the moon.

[moonslav59]

"We have too many holes to fill to spend on Devers and Xander for the next 5 years."

 

If the farm can't fill those holes within 5 years, Bloom should be sent to the moon.

 

The problem is, if it takes 3-5 years to fill all those holes, you've wasted 2-3 years of paying the stars mega dollars.

 

DD and Bloom did a pretty good job rebuilding the farm to a point where it appears we will be getting some sporadic contributions over the next 4-6+ years, but it's never guaranteed, and just how many holes will we need to fill?

 

We'll have a bout 10 starting this winter.

 

Yes, free agency can and should be able to fill some or most of them, but without much low cost farm infusions, I doubt we can ever reach the promise land, let alone have any sort of sustained winning system, unless Henry lets the Sox become the Dodgers East. (Which is what some fans seem to think the solution is.)

[mvp 78]

There won't be 10 holes this offseason that will go unfilled. Give me a break.

 

Cliff 2.0.

[moonslav59]

There won't be 10 holes this offseason that will go unfilled. Give me a break.

 

Cliff 2.0.

 

Hello. Did I say "unfilled?"

 

I actually said free agency will likely fill most of them.

 

Try reading the whole post, for once. It wasn't all that long, even for your attention span.

[moonslav59]

Players on the 40 and still under team control after 2023:

 

Sale

Story

Whitlock

Houck

Barnes ($2.25M buyout)

Verdugo (last arb)

Diekman ($1M buyout)

Pivetta (last arb)

Cordero (last arb)

Dalbec, Davis, DHern & Valdez(2nd of 3 arbs)

Scheiber, Winckowski, Seabold, Wong

Duran, Bello, Mata, Downs, Groome, RHern

Arauz, Crawford, Danish

Arroyo (last arb, if he's not DFA'd by then)

Sawamura (3rd of 4th arb)

Add some rule 5 eligible players, this winter and next

 

I see dozens of holes coming up. Again, many will be filled through free agency or extensions, but to win consistently, we'll need plenty of help from the farm. It's just stating the obvious. It's not rocket science.

 

Yes, if Bloom has not gotten the farm to a point where they can fill several big need areas over the next 5 years, his days will be numbered. Dah!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

@Jared_Carrabis

Mookie Betts on April 26: .190 with a .646 OPS.

 

Mookie Betts MLB ranks since April 26: .362 BA (5th), .762 SLG (2nd), 1.186 OPS (2nd), 47 hits (3rd), 14 HR (1st), 24 XBH (2nd), 99 total bases (1st).

 

Just remember, we need to make sure we care about Henry's wallet and not re-sign the best ballplayers we have.

 

He's so short. Just wait until he's not tall anymore.

[JDavis76]

Hello. Did I say "unfilled?"

 

I actually said free agency will likely fill most of them.

 

Try reading the whole post, for once. It wasn't all that long, even for your attention span.

 

May I suggest pictures and memes to keep him entertained.......

[Larry Cook]

Players on the 40 and still under team control after 2023:

 

Sale

Story

Whitlock

Houck

Barnes ($2.25M buyout)

Verdugo (last arb)

Diekman ($1M buyout)

Pivetta (last arb)

Cordero (last arb)

Dalbec, Davis, DHern & Valdez(2nd of 3 arbs)

Scheiber, Winckowski, Seabold, Wong

Duran, Bello, Mata, Downs, Groome, RHern

Arauz, Crawford, Danish

Arroyo (last arb, if he's not DFA'd by then)

Sawamura (3rd of 4th arb)

Add some rule 5 eligible players, this winter and next

 

I see dozens of holes coming up. Again, many will be filled through free agency or extensions, but to win consistently, we'll need plenty of help from the farm. It's just stating the obvious. It's not rocket science.

 

Yes, if Bloom has not gotten the farm to a point where they can fill several big need areas over the next 5 years, his days will be numbered. Dah!

 

2023 starters

 

Sale

Pivetta

Whitlock

Bello

Resigned wacha or free agent

 

1b cassas (dalbec)

2b arroyo

SS story

3b resigned devers

Lf verdugo

Cf Cordero

Rf Bradley (Duran)

C wong (r hernandez)

Dh dalbec (cassas)

 

I see 3 holes

 

Catcher

2nd base

5th starter

[moonslav59]

2023 starters

 

Sale

Pivetta

Whitlock

Bello

Resigned wacha or free agent

 

1b cassas (dalbec)

2b arroyo

SS story

3b resigned devers

Lf verdugo

Cf Cordero

Rf Bradley (Duran)

C wong (r hernandez)

Dh dalbec (cassas)

 

I see 3 holes

 

Catcher

2nd base

5th starter

 

I see 7, not counting 3-4 in the pen and 1-2 on the bench.

 

C

1B

2B

OF

OF

DH

SP

 

[moonslav59]

Open Slots 2023:

 

C1 _______

C2 _______ (Wong/RHern?)

1B _______ (Casas/DalbecCordero?)

2B _______ (Arroyo/Downs/Fitzy/Arauz?)

3B Devers

SS Story

LF Verdugo

CF ______ (JBJ? option)

RF ______ (Cordero?)

DH ______ (Dalbec/Cordero?)

 

SP1 _______

SP2 Sale - maybe

SP3 Paxton - maybe

SP4 Whitlock

SP5 Pivetta

SP6 Bello/Seabold/Winckowski/Murphy/Groome/Mata

Closer ______

RP2 ______ (German?)

RP3 Houck

RP4 ______

RP5 Schreiber

RP6 Taylor

RP7 Diekman

RP8 Barnes Danish/Davis/Valdez/Sawamura/Brasier/Feltman (SP converted)

 

Maybe 9-11 open slots?

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by moonslav59

[notin]

Open Slots 2023:

 

C1 _______

C2 _______ (Wong/RHern?)

1B _______ (Casas/DalbecCordero?)

2B _______ (Arroyo/Downs/Fitzy/Arauz?)

3B Devers

SS Story

LF Verdugo

CF ______ (JBJ? option)

RF ______ (Cordero?)

DH ______ (Dalbec/Cordero?)

 

SP1 _______

SP2 Sale - maybe

SP3 Paxton - maybe

SP4 Whitlock

SP5 Pivetta

SP6 Bello/Seabold/Winckowski/Murphy/Groome/Mata

Closer ______

RP2 ______ (German?)

RP3 Houck

RP4 ______

RP5 Schreiber

RP6 Taylor

RP7 Diekman

RP8 Barnes Danish/Davis/Valdez/Sawamura/Brasier/Feltman (SP converted)

 

Maybe 9-11 open slots?

 

 

C and 2b and maybe DH. Most other spots might be filled already. And don’t sleep on Jeter Downs at 2b just yet…

[moonslav59]

C and 2b and maybe DH. Most other spots might be filled already. And don’t sleep on Jeter Downs at 2b just yet…

 

Filling just 3 slots pretty much guarantees mediocrity.

[notin]

Devers isn’t Harper or Machado, but I’d be surprised if he got less than $300 mill…

[Bellhorn04]

Devers isn’t Harper or Machado, but I’d be surprised if he got less than $300 mill…

 

Especially because he's off to such a great start this year...

[mvp 78]

Especially because he's off to such a great start this year...

 

And he is showing that he can stick at 3B for a few more years at least.

[Kimmi]

@Jared_Carrabis

Mookie Betts on April 26: .190 with a .646 OPS.

 

Mookie Betts MLB ranks since April 26: .362 BA (5th), .762 SLG (2nd), 1.186 OPS (2nd), 47 hits (3rd), 14 HR (1st), 24 XBH (2nd), 99 total bases (1st).

 

Just remember, we need to make sure we care about Henry's wallet and not re-sign the best ballplayers we have.

 

Stop.

 

You know there's a lot more to it than that.

[notin]

Filling just 3 slots pretty much guarantees mediocrity.

 

Filling 12+ slots guarantees a mess…

[moonslav59]

Filling 12+ slots guarantees a mess…

 

I've agreed, we'll attempt to fill 3 maybe 4 from within the system, but we've been signing 7-9 players for 2 years in a row. (I won't count 2020.)

 

My hope is we do it with a few players above the $3-10M range. Since we may be replacing or extending a few already above that range, I'm not sure why that would create a mess.

 

I'm not saying we will see 3-5 Story-like contracts, but I would not be surprised to see 4-6 contracts above $11M/yr and another 3-5 between $6-11M for a total of 7-9 above $5 or 6M.

 

How many of these guys will be the pencilled in starter/full-timer?

 

C Wong/RHern

1B Casas/Dalbec/Cordero

2B Arroyo/Downs/Fitzy (assuming Story at 2B)

OF Duran

DH Dalbec/Cordero

SP Sale, Paxton, Whitlock, Pivetta, Houck (RP?)/Bello/Seabold/Winckowski/Groome/Walter/Mata

RP Barnes,Taylor, Diekman, Schreiber, Danish, Davis, Sawamura, Brasier, Valdez, German

 

If we don't replace a large chunk of these guys from outside the sytem, it will be an ugly mess:

 

Bogey

JD

Eovaldi

Kike

Wacha

Hill

Strahm

 

If we had ML ready players in the system that could step in and play, right now, why haven't we seen them, already? It's not like we are doing so well, there is no way to try them out, now.

Vaz & Plawecki

 

[redsoxrules]

@Jared_Carrabis

Mookie Betts on April 26: .190 with a .646 OPS.

 

Mookie Betts MLB ranks since April 26: .362 BA (5th), .762 SLG (2nd), 1.186 OPS (2nd), 47 hits (3rd), 14 HR (1st), 24 XBH (2nd), 99 total bases (1st).

 

Just remember, we need to make sure we care about Henry's wallet and not re-sign the best ballplayers we have.

 

I suppose his stats until April doesn't count

[mvp 78]

@BeyondtheMnstr

Jon Heyman of the New York Post says that the Boston Red Sox have offered All-Star third baseman Rafael Devers “$220M or so.”

 

Heyman says there’s optimism that both sides can bridge the gap and come to an agreement on a deal.

[Hugh2]

Remember this is a starting point, that’s a very reasonable opening offer. I think they get something done

[mvp 78]

Remember this is a starting point, that’s a very reasonable opening offer. I think they get something done

 

As long as their offers keep going up, I'm fine with it. In other instances that we've spoken about endlessly, the offers just stopped and the players were offered fair market value elsewhere.

[Hugh2]

As long as their offers keep going up, I'm fine with it. In other instances that we've spoken about endlessly, the offers just stopped and the players were offered fair market value elsewhere.

 

I think depending on where a player is at is important. Devers is close to FA, hes' going to have to be offered something close to what he thinks hes' worth on the FA market. When a guy is multiple years away he has to decide if he wants to take security or bank on a payday. I can understand a team not negotiating with a guy 2-4 years away. This is the price now, take it or leave it.

[a700hitter]

Are you asking what is his worth on the open market or what can the Red Sox afford to pay him in the context of their budget, including Henry’s other bad investments?

[Bellhorn04]

Are you asking what is his worth on the open market or what can the Red Sox afford to pay him in the context of their budget, including Henry’s other bad investments?

 

The poll question was just how much you would offer him, maximum.