Fire Bloom .

[JDavis76]

Agreed.

 

Let's make "Devers Forevers" a reality!

 

Who says he even wants to stay?

[moonslav59]

He was in a classic no-win situation at the deadline.

 

According to Alex Speier, Bloom did put JD and Eovaldi on the market, but he was asking for a big return, and he didn't get any bites.

 

But, why insist on more than the most you can get?

 

The only way we should not have traded these two (plus Hill, Kike and Strahm) is if we planned to offer QO's and we felt the return offered was worse than a comp pick.

 

I did not mention Wacha, because I think he should get a QO. At the deadline, I was not so sure about that. Even that being said, we probably could have gotten more for Wacha than a QO, too.

[Bellhorn04]

But, why insist on more than the most you can get?

 

Hoping somebody overpays. It happens.

 

I think he had a plan. It was a plan that everyone can question, absolutely, but it had some reasoning behind it.

 

In retrospect a fire sale and 2012-style tank job was the call.

 

But that would have created a lot of bitterness with fans too.

[Elktonnick]

Hoping somebody overpays. It happens.

 

I think he had a plan. It was a plan that everyone can question, absolutely, but it had some reasoning behind it.

 

In retrospect a fire sale and 2012-style tank job was the call.

 

But that would have created a lot of bitterness with fans too.

Hope is not a plan.

[Bellhorn04]

Hope is not a plan.

 

Yes, I've heard that many times. But it's false. Every plan involves uncertainty and therefore hope.

[Elktonnick]

Yes, I've heard that many times. But it's false. Every plan involves uncertainty and therefore hope.

I see that you haven't done any serious planning in your professional career.

If I had submitted a plan based on hope to my boss I would have been fired before I left his office.

 

One deals with uncertainty by having contingency plans. I see no evidence that Bloom ever had either a plan or a contingency plan.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Elktonnick

[moonslav59]

Hoping somebody overpays. It happens.

 

I think he had a plan. It was a plan that everyone can question, absolutely, but it had some reasoning behind it.

 

In retrospect a fire sale and 2012-style tank job was the call.

 

But that would have created a lot of bitterness with fans too.

 

You can hope you get more, but when you are a minute from the deadline expiring, you take the best you can get. Yes, he'd have been bashed like he was for the Betts trade, where I think he got pretty close to the best he could do, despite it not being what we hoped for.

 

He could have also handled the Bogey situation differently.

 

Had he known all along he'd never come close to the number Bogey should get, he should have told him so, and asked if he'd waive his no trade clause and tell him where he prefers playing.

 

Had he known he would offer more, he should have sat him down- told him he wants him to stay and here is my top offer. If you don't want to take it, would you be okay with a trade to a team you'd like to play for?

 

If Bogey refused to waive the no-trade, so be it, but I don't think a comp pick is near what he is worth.

 

It is a no win situation, but you have to pick the best losing situation.

 

To me, those were Bloom's biggest mistakes, and not that he should have sold the arm on some wild goose chase idea that we might have wont, this year, with a few major deals.

 

There was a reason I started the 2023 Realistic thread on July 22nd. We were really out of it before then, but to me, it was clear by then. (Just my opinion, and I caught some flack for expressing it then.)

Edited August 26, 2022 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

You can hope you get more, but when you are a minute from the deadline expiring, you take the best you can get. Yes, he'd have been bashed like he was for the Betts trade, where I think he got pretty close to the best he could do, despite it not being what we hoped for.

 

Let me see how many times has the word bashed, or jock been used today by 1 certain poster today? Now this is where I normally would jump in the fray, and do some bashing, but I’m going to show some restraint, and not do so.today, and take the high road. My post earlier with the standings update says it all.

[notin]

I see that you haven't done any serious planning in your professional career.

If I had submitted a plan based on hope to my boss I would have been fired before I left his office.

 

One deals with uncertainty by having contingency plans. I see no evidence that Bloom ever had either a plan or a contingency plan.

 

 

And exactly what evidence would you look for to recognize either?

 

The ones out here on this board recommending moves, we’re the ones without plans. And of us if not all are aware of that…

[Bellhorn04]

I see that you haven't done any serious planning in your professional career.

If I had submitted a plan based on hope to my boss I would have been fired before I left his office.

 

One deals with uncertainty by having contingency plans. I see no evidence that Bloom ever had either a plan or a contingency plan.

 

He did have a plan. It was explained in the article by Speier we have both referred to. I thought you read that article.

[Bellhorn04]

Reese McGuire has a .906 OPS with the Red Sox. And he's a good defensive catcher. That's one of Bloom's deadline moves that is looking good. And he shed Diekman and his 2023 salary in that trade.

[Elktonnick]

He did have a plan. It was explained in the article by Speier we have both referred to. I thought you read that article.

That was no plan that was a hope.

[notin]

Reese McGuire has a .906 OPS with the Red Sox. And he's a good defensive catcher. That's one of Bloom's deadline moves that is looking good. And he shed Diekman and his 2023 salary in that trade.

 

This obviously isn’t going to last, but if McGuire can just bring his glove and bat ninth, I have no issues with him starting in 2023…

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

In case anyone's interested, and I wouldn't blame you if you're not, tonight's game against the Rays will be televised on Apple TV.

[notin]

That was no plan that was a hope.

 

So what does a plan to build a team look like? Or what makes you conclude he has no plan?

 

And I say this honestly not knowing…

[Bellhorn04]

That was no plan that was a hope.

 

OK Mr. Circular Argument.

[jad]

This obviously isn’t going to last, but if McGuire can just bring his glove and bat ninth, I have no issues with him starting in 2023…

 

As long as he keeps his gloves on, all should be well. If he takes them off, however, ...

[Old Red]

That's how I felt, but I guess criticizing Bloom for the opposite reasons is somehow translated into carrying his jock.

 

BAZINGA! It’s hilarious you think you are only carrying his jock. You are his jock.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

As long as he keeps his gloves on, all should be well. If he takes them off, however, ...

 

I believe the shelf life on those juvenile comments has expired.

[notin]

As long as he keeps his gloves on, all should be well. If he takes them off, however, ...

 

Would you prefer a catcher who enjoys his own company in his car or a closer who throttles his child’s mother and then lets off steam by blasting a few rounds into some perfectly innocent drywall?

[Elktonnick]

So what does a plan to build a team look like? Or what makes you conclude he has no plan?

 

And I say this honestly not knowing…

Sign players to fill the holes you have. Typically teams do this in the off season. They lay out the strategy targeting possible players to fill their holes with contingencies in the event their first choices was not available. What Bloom did was create more holes to fill and then failed to aggressively pursue players to fill those holes. He was repeatedly beaten to the punch by more aggressive teams. Hence the criticism of having no sense of urgency. Bloom misread the baseball market as a whole and the demands of his local fan base.

[Bellhorn04]

I believe the shelf life on those juvenile comments has expired.

 

It certainly should have by now.

[Bellhorn04]

Sign players to fill the holes you have. Typically teams do this in the off season. They lay out the strategy targeting possible players to fill their holes with contingencies in the event their first choices was not available. What Bloom did was create more holes to fill and then failed to aggressively pursue players to fill those holes. He was repeatedly beaten to the punch by more aggressive teams.

 

Right, like the Texas Rangers, who spent $500 million on Seager and Semien and have since fired the GM and the manager!

[Elktonnick]

OK Mr. Circular Argument.

Not if you accept the premise that Bloom had no plan to begin with. That everything he thought of doing was OBE by the time he got around to doing it. Face it Bloom is really a minor league GM unable to adjust to the speed of the big leagues.

[Elktonnick]

Right, like the Texas Rangers, who spent $500 million on Seager and Semien and have since fired the GM and the manager!

Non sequitur.

[dgalehouse]

The problem is simply that this Sox team has too much mediocrity and not enough quality players. And that is in all areas. Hitting, defense, starting pitching and bullpen. Bloom put this team together. It is on him. You can spin it any way you want, but that is the reality.

[moonslav59]

Sign players to fill the holes you have. Typically teams do this in the off season. They lay out the strategy targeting possible players to fill their holes with contingencies in the event their first choices was not available. What Bloom did was create more holes to fill and then failed to aggressively pursue players to fill those holes. He was repeatedly beaten to the punch by more aggressive teams. Hence the criticism of having no sense of urgency. Bloom misread the baseball market as a whole and the demands of his local fan base.

 

When you have many holes to fill and limited finances and resources, you have to rely on some hope, unfortunately... like Dalbec/Shaw/Casas at 1B and like Sale/Paxton/Wink/Seabold at SP'er.

 

Bloom did get a few things wrong on the choices he did make, but several worked- just not enough to counterbalance all that went wrong. Go ahead and blame Bloom for not foreseeing the declines from nearly every returning vet, but don't deny he'd have been blasted had he traded Bogey, JD, Nate, Dugo, Duran, Whitlock and others who declines from '21 to '22, last winter.

[oldtimer]

Sign players to fill the holes you have. Typically teams do this in the off season. They lay out the strategy targeting possible players to fill their holes with contingencies in the event their first choices was not available. What Bloom did was create more holes to fill and then failed to aggressively pursue players to fill those holes. He was repeatedly beaten to the punch by more aggressive teams. Hence the criticism of having no sense of urgency. Bloom misread the baseball market as a whole and the demands of his local fan base.

 

Bloom should be judged by the results of the team and the progress toward competitiveness. So far the results have been poor and we have gotten less competitive. I would suggest 2023 will be the final year for excuses. The team will have to show real progress if Bloom is to be kept as GM.

[moonslav59]

The problem is simply that this Sox team has too much mediocrity and not enough quality players. And that is in all areas. Hitting, defense, starting pitching and bullpen. Bloom put this team together. It is on him. You can spin it any way you want, but that is the reality.

 

Bloom signed Nate, Sale, Bogey, Dalbec, Vaz, Plawecki, JD, Brasier, and many others? Are you saying he should have almost totally white-washed the team over the past 2-3 years, and known exactly which ones were about to decline and dump them for the best he could get. Then, on a limited budget for nearly the full 3 years, he was supposed to fill all the gaps by being close to 100% correct on all signings and trades.

 

That was your idea of a good plan? (I don't want to put words in your mouth, so please explain, and please, no "he should have convinced JH to spend more" as part of your suggested plan.)

[moonslav59]

Bloom should be judged by the results of the team and the progress toward competitiveness. So far the results have been poor and we have gotten less competitive. I would suggest 2023 will be the final year for excuses. The team will have to show real progress if Bloom is to be kept as GM.

 

I don't think many would disagree with this. (Maybe Kimmi?)

 

I guess the next question might be, just how good do we have to be in 2023 to satisfy different posters? Can we come close to getting to the WS (again), and look very promising for 2024, or do we need a ring or WS appearance?