Fire Bloom .

[mvp 78]

I thought that, when talking about the history of talksox, a gom mention was warranted. Oh bosox21, where art thou?

 

You can summon SCM33 by saying his name 3 times in a row like Beetlejuice.

[moonslav59]

All kinds of fans see, and care about many different things. Some just go to the games to watch their favorite teams, and favorite players, and some just go to get the Fenway experience itself. Some get very technical, and deep in all the stats, and payroll, and follow all the farm boys like you do, and some could care less about any of all of that, and just want the Red Sox to win, and the only care about the standings today. In other words one type of fan isn’t any better than the other, or worse a fan than the other. I’ve said many times when I get mocked about the eye test, and the stats that I look at is that those are all I need, and care about. What’s good for me might not be what’s best for you, and vice versa. As for what you call the constant, repetitive, and excessive criticism all I can say about that is that I have a friend who prints tee shirts, and the Bloom Basher tee shirts way out sell the I’m a Bloom supporter tee shirts, and he thanks you for that. As always it’s been a pleasure. I don’t know about you, but I’m ready for some ND football. How about a hell yea.

 

I know there are about as many different fans as there are fans, and I get how some people just like to criticize much more than others (or can't help themselves.) I get that.

 

I also don't think what the majority of fans think has anything to do with what I think is right or wrong.

[Old Red]

I know there are about as many different fans as there are fans, and I get how some people just like to criticize much more than others (or can't help themselves.) I get that.

 

I also don't think what the majority of fans think has anything to do with what I think is right or wrong.

 

I’ll give you a Moon Speak of what you said about Cora. I don’t agree with what you say, but I don’t think you’re wrong.

[moonslav59]

I’ll give you a Moon Speak of what you said about Cora. I don’t agree with what you say, but I don’t think you’re wrong.

 

Another total misrepresentation of my position, but what else is new?

 

When a manager makes thousands of choices each season, is it not possible to disagree with many choices and still think he is a good manager?

 

Is it possible to think, "I'd have done _____," but Cora did that and still not think he was wrong? I'd say, "hell yah," especially when I often add, "He knows more about the situation than I do." Often, I have said, "I'd have started Refsnyer," hten find out he was hurt or had bad splits vs that pitcher, afterwards, so in cases like that, Cora was likely right, and I was wrong. I have no issues with being wrong, and I will admit it when I find out I was wrong.

 

BTW, the statement was, "I disagree with the move Cora made, but that doesn't mean I think HE was wrong."

 

 

[Old Red]

Another total misrepresentation of my position, but what else is new?

 

When a manager makes thousands of choices each season, is it not possible to disagree with many choices and still think he is a good manager?

 

Is it possible to think, "I'd have done _____," but Cora did that and still not think he was wrong? I'd say, "hell yah," especially when I often add, "He knows more about the situation than I do." Often, I have said, "I'd have started Refsnyer," hten find out he was hurt or had bad splits vs that pitcher, afterwards, so in cases like that, Cora was likely right, and I was wrong. I have no issues with being wrong, and I will admit it when I find out I was wrong.

 

BTW, the statement was, "I disagree with the move Cora made, but that doesn't mean I think HE was wrong."

 

 

 

Yes Cora, and Bloom have more information to go on than we do, but just because one is a big league manager, and the other one is a HOBO of a big league club doesn’t always means they know more than you, or anyone else in every situation, nor are they right every time.

[moonslav59]

Yes Cora, and Bloom have more information to go on than we do, but just because one is a big league manager, and the other one is a HOBO of a big league club doesn’t always means they know more than you, or anyone else in every situation, nor are they right every time.

 

They certainly are not right, every time. Nobody is, except MVP (in his own mind.) LOL

 

Yes, having more information does not mean they are right and I am wrong, but I feel, if I knew that information, before I gave my opinion, I might not have had the same opinion I gave when uniformed.

 

I do disagree on some things, where I believe I am right and Cora or Bloom are wrong, but again, I don't know what their bosses have tasked them to do or prioritize.

 

I'll name a few:

 

I think Cora rests players, too much, and should not choose days to rest players when the L-R splits go against the day in question. I think that is wrong, but maybe that player will do better with that day of rest, going forward, and Cora was right, afterall.

I think Bloom was wrong to not trade some marginal prospects for a SP'er, at the deadline, but I don't know, if the organization is dead set on keeping any prospect with a pulse. If that is the case, I won't say "Bloom was wrong."

 

I try not to see things in black and white. I like in a grey world. Maybe I lived in Gray, Maine, too long.

 

[Old Red]

They certainly are not right, every time. Nobody is, except MVP (in his own mind.) LOL

 

Yes, having more information does not mean they are right and I am wrong, but I feel, if I knew that information, before I gave my opinion, I might not have had the same opinion I gave when uniformed.

 

I do disagree on some things, where I believe I am right and Cora or Bloom are wrong, but again, I don't know what their bosses have tasked them to do or prioritize.

 

I'll name a few:

 

I think Cora rests players, too much, and should not choose days to rest players when the L-R splits go against the day in question. I think that is wrong, but maybe that player will do better with that day of rest, going forward, and Cora was right, afterall.

I think Bloom was wrong to not trade some marginal prospects for a SP'er, at the deadline, but I don't know, if the organization is dead set on keeping any prospect with a pulse. If that is the case, I won't say "Bloom was wrong."

 

I try not to see things in black and white. I like in a grey world. Maybe I lived in Gray, Maine, too long.

 

I agree with you on the resting of players 100%, and adding a starting pitcher at the deadline, which had been needed for weeks would have helped the morale of the ball club, and fans alike, and might have made a difference of a game, or two, which may turn out to be big later on.

[moonslav59]

I agree with you on the resting of players 100%, and adding a starting pitcher at the deadline, which had been needed for weeks would have helped the morale of the ball club, and fans alike, and might have made a difference of a game, or two, which may turn out to be big later on.

 

Without knowing if the no prospects traded was a directive from above, I cannot bring myself to hold it against Bloom.

 

If we find out he could have and chose not to do it, I would still want to withhold criticism, until we see how well the prospect we would have traded does going forward, and how well the pitcher we might have gotten does to end the year.

 

To me, it's never as cut and dried as some seem to think it is. Again, just my point of view.

 

[Dipre]

The going rate for mediocre SP was prohibitive IMO. Feel free to disagree.

[notin]

The going rate for mediocre SP was prohibitive IMO. Feel free to disagree.

 

Not prohibitive, but you needed to be willing to part with AA talent with a low ceiling…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The going rate for mediocre SP was prohibitive IMO. Feel free to disagree.

 

I'm in for a Brainer Bonaci, and will raise you a Chase Meidroth.

[moonslav59]

The going rate for mediocre SP was prohibitive IMO. Feel free to disagree.

 

At the deadline, prices are usually high, especially for pitchers with more than 2 months of control.

 

Winter is the best time for these sorts of deals:

 

Pedro

Schilling

Beckett

Sale

Porcello

 

(Nate is the only big one acquired mid season.)

[Maxbialystock]

Yes Cora, and Bloom have more information to go on than we do, but just because one is a big league manager, and the other one is a HOBO of a big league club doesn’t always means they know more than you, or anyone else in every situation, nor are they right every time.

 

If you really believe that, you are just dead wrong. They both know a ton more than any of us, and it's sheer folly to claim otherwise.

 

That does not, however, mean I don't enjoy the comments on talksox because I do. That especially includes moonslav because he does a lot of research before commenting. But I also don't put anyone on ignore so I usually read whatever you have to say--and sometimes agree with you.

[Maxbialystock]

At the deadline, prices are usually high, especially for pitchers with more than 2 months of control.

 

Winter is the best time for these sorts of deals:

 

Pedro

Schilling

Beckett

Sale

Porcello

 

(Nate is the only big one acquired mid season.)

 

I'm glad you said that because I was definitely thinking it as we approached 1 August.

[Maxbialystock]

Here's a topic for someone to research.

 

Is it true that Sox players traded away (or were simply offered a better contract) routinely play a lot better for other teams than they did for the Sox? The four most recent examples I can think of are Kike Hernandez, Wacha, Eovaldi, and JDM.

[Old Red]

If you really believe that, you are just dead wrong. They both know a ton more than any of us, and it's sheer folly to claim otherwise.

 

That does not, however, mean I don't enjoy the comments on talksox because I do. That especially includes moonslav because he does a lot of research before commenting. But I also don't put anyone on ignore so I usually read whatever you have to say--and sometimes agree with you.

 

Thanks for the kind words Max.

[Hugh2]

Here's a topic for someone to research.

 

Is it true that Sox players traded away (or were simply offered a better contract) routinely play a lot better for other teams than they did for the Sox? The four most recent examples I can think of are Kike Hernandez, Wacha, Eovaldi, and JDM.

 

I didn't research it in huge depth but at first glance here is what I see.

 

JD Martinez is having a good year, but not better than his overall slash line in Boston. He was overall better here, he's just having a better year this year than he had last year.

 

Nathan Eovaldi is having a career year, he's not just pitching better than he did here but everywhere.

 

Wacha you could say the same, but to be fair, he also pitched better for us than he did most other seasons he ever had in the big leagues.

 

Kike, was misused here, I really feel if he was in that super utility role his slash line might look better here. But then again, he may also be a change of scenery guy, because it's not like he never did here what he is doing there either.

[Hugh2]

FWIW both Wacha and Eovaldi have been banged up lately, Nate has barely pitched in 6

weeks.

 

Wacha hasn't pitched since July 1st.

 

Eovaldi hasn't pitched since July 18th.

 

If we resigned those two, we'd still be down two starters rigth now, and one less draft pick.

[moonslav59]

FWIW both Wacha and Eovaldi have been banged up lately, Nate has barely pitched in 6

weeks.

 

Wacha hasn't pitched since July 1st.

 

Eovaldi hasn't pitched since July 18th.

 

If we resigned those two, we'd still be down two starters rigth now, and one less draft pick.

 

With the same budget, maybe no Turner and maybe more...

[moonslav59]

Here's a topic for someone to research.

 

Is it true that Sox players traded away (or were simply offered a better contract) routinely play a lot better for other teams than they did for the Sox? The four most recent examples I can think of are Kike Hernandez, Wacha, Eovaldi, and JDM.

 

...and T Shaw, Beeks, Ty Buttrey, Springs, Martin Perez, Brasier off the top of my head.

 

Up & Down or Meh: Hill, Kelly, Beni, Hill, Strahm, Hill, Erod, Hill, Hill, Hill...

 

Worse: Kimbrell, Workman, Hembree, Price, Bogey, Vaz...

 

I'm sure I missed some or there will be a disagreement on how I categorized some.

 

[Randy Red Sox]

yeah Bloom is a genius

With the same budget, maybe no Turner and maybe more...

[Randy Red Sox]

you never hold ANYTHING against Bloom

Without knowing if the no prospects traded was a directive from above, I cannot bring myself to hold it against Bloom.

 

If we find out he could have and chose not to do it, I would still want to withhold criticism, until we see how well the prospect we would have traded does going forward, and how well the pitcher we might have gotten does to end the year.

 

To me, it's never as cut and dried as some seem to think it is. Again, just my point of view.

 

[moonslav59]

you never hold ANYTHING against Bloom

 

You obviously haven't read all my posts.

 

I caught grief for saying, day one, the JBJ trade was a "head scratcher" and "made no sense." I said similar things about the Diekman signing and several other moves.

 

I was highly critical of not selling, last summer (and not buying this summer,) but I'm not sure that Bloom is the one who made the call. If it was, then I'd bash him for that.

 

Providing context does not absolve the GM of all culpability and does not mean I support everything he has ever done.

 

I do think the overall 5 year plan is not his idea. He may be fully supportive of it, but who knows why?

Because he likes the plan?

Because he just does what the boss wants?

Maybe some of both?

 

Would you feel better, if you found out he begged JH to be allowed to trade for Lorenzen, but JH said no?

 

I don't see everything as black and white. I've given Bloom a grade of C or lower in at least one area, so your point about "never holding anything against him" is off base.

[mvp 78]

I'm in for a Brainer Bonaci, and will raise you a Chase Meidroth.

 

For who? Which pitcher does that get you?

[mvp 78]

Here's a topic for someone to research.

 

Is it true that Sox players traded away (or were simply offered a better contract) routinely play a lot better for other teams than they did for the Sox? The four most recent examples I can think of are Kike Hernandez, Wacha, Eovaldi, and JDM.

 

No.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

For who? Which pitcher does that get you?

 

Well, the Cardinals traded a decent starter and a reliever having a good year for two Rangers' prospects in the #11-15 range (plus a big league reliever). But far be it for me to equate actual prospect numbers -- or assume St. Lou would prefer guys from the Sox' 4th-ranked farm, compared to Texas' 7th-ranked farm, per fangraphs.

 

All Cora really needed was one. more. legitimate. starting. pitcher in the Toronto series -- instead of having to use back-to-back openers, which caused poor Pablo to burn out his shotputting shoulder heaving 37 mph Leephuses.

 

One win -- instead of getting swept by the Jays -- and the two clubs would be tied today in the loss column... of course, they'd both be chasing the sizzling Mariners.

[notin]

Well, the Cardinals traded a decent starter and a reliever having a good year for two Rangers' prospects in the #11-15 range (plus a big league reliever). But far be it for me to equate actual prospect numbers -- or assume St. Lou would prefer guys from the Sox' 4th-ranked farm, compared to Texas' 7th-ranked farm, per fangraphs.

 

All Cora really needed was one. more. legitimate. starting. pitcher in the Toronto series -- instead of having to use back-to-back openers, which caused poor Pablo to burn out his shotputting shoulder heaving 37 mph Leephuses.

 

One win -- instead of getting swept by the Jays -- and the two clubs would be tied today in the loss column... of course, they'd both be chasing the sizzling Mariners.

 

On BTV, the package the Cardinals received had a surplus value of $7.4mill, while a proposal of Brainer Bonaci and Chase Meidroth had a surplus value of $5mill. And also didn’t have a pitching prospect.

 

Assuming the Cardinals wanted the same positions and sticking with BTV, the Sox could have offered a package of Shane Drohan ($5mill) and Chase Meidroth ($3.3mill) and maybe made the trade.

 

So should the Sox have made that deal? With Sale, Houck and Whitlock coming back?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

On BTV, the package the Cardinals received had a surplus value of $7.4mill, while a proposal of Brainer Bonaci and Chase Meidroth had a surplus value of $5mill. And also didn’t have a pitching prospect.

 

Assuming the Cardinals wanted the same positions and sticking with BTV, the Sox could have offered a package of Shane Drohan ($5mill) and Chase Meidroth ($3.3mill) and maybe made the trade.

 

So should the Sox have made that deal? With Sale, Houck and Whitlock coming back?

 

Yes, if they were serious about making their best run for a wild card. Jordan Montgomery giving them 5-6 IP per start would've already made a huge difference in preserving the actual Big League relievers in the bullpen, plus Chris Stratton would've given them the missing RHP for the late innings to replace bargain bin waiver wire DFAed minor league detritus.

 

And no matter what Sam Kennedy says, relying on injured guys coming off the IL isn't as good as acquiring healthy guys having good years.

 

But we are where we are... and can only hope we don't fall a game or two short of the Jays for the postseason.

[Randy Red Sox]

we agree on one thing.I dont think Bloom is calling all the shots.

You obviously haven't read all my posts.

 

I caught grief for saying, day one, the JBJ trade was a "head scratcher" and "made no sense." I said similar things about the Diekman signing and several other moves.

 

I was highly critical of not selling, last summer (and not buying this summer,) but I'm not sure that Bloom is the one who made the call. If it was, then I'd bash him for that.

 

Providing context does not absolve the GM of all culpability and does not mean I support everything he has ever done.

 

I do think the overall 5 year plan is not his idea. He may be fully supportive of it, but who knows why?

Because he likes the plan?

Because he just does what the boss wants?

Maybe some of both?

 

Would you feel better, if you found out he begged JH to be allowed to trade for Lorenzen, but JH said no?

 

I don't see everything as black and white. I've given Bloom a grade of C or lower in at least one area, so your point about "never holding anything against him" is off base.

[notin]

Yes, if they were serious about making their best run for a wild card. Jordan Montgomery giving them 5-6 IP per start would've already made a huge difference in preserving the actual Big League relievers in the bullpen, plus Chris Stratton would've given them the missing RHP for the late innings to replace bargain bin waiver wire DFAed minor league detritus.

 

And no matter what Sam Kennedy says, relying on injured guys coming off the IL isn't as good as acquiring healthy guys having good years.

 

But we are where we are... and can only hope we don't fall a game or two short of the Jays for the postseason.

 

Unless the Sox did offer that and were not chosen anyway.

 

I was extremely disappointed with his deadline, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t do anything and just waited for the injured players to return. We have no idea if he talked to St. Louis and who was discussed, and just because you checked MLBTR 50,000 times on August 1 (like I did) doesn’t mean he didn’t make offers and doesn’t mean names were not bandied about with numerous GMs.

 

We have no idea what players from Boston St. Louis would have accepted, if any.

 

I get my consolation at this point from the fact that one Houck and Whitlock return, and Llovera and Barraclough depart, the Sox staff looks deep and formidable. But no depth in case of injury…