Fire Bloom .

[Maxbialystock]

You might be surprised how horrible the average catcher is offensively

 

I'm sure you're right about that. All the more amazing that really good catchers like Johnny Bench and Yogi Berra were also good hitters.

[moonslav59]

You might be surprised how horrible the average catcher is offensively

 

I've looked at the average offense by catchers for many years. It certainly is a lower average than any other position and way lower than some.

 

That being said, the line between starting catcher and back-up is often blurry for many teams. To get a sample size of 60 catcher seasons over the last 2 years (30 teams x 2 seasons= 60 top samples) you have to lower the PAs to 300- by far the lowest of any position.

 

Here is what I found:

 

The top 30 samples range from a .710 OPS to .939 (Grandal '21). The 2022 Vazquez ranked 29th out of 60. The 2021 Vaz ranked 41st at .659.

 

Combine 2021 and 2022 and raise the min PAs to 577 and you get a sample size of 30 catchers (1 per team.)

Vaz places 17th out of 30 at .685. He's been average- not really above average.

 

It is telling to see the bottom quartile cut off is .643. Ten catchers were at .600 or lower.

 

On the larger scale, there are only 63 catchers with 1000+ PAs since 2014. Vaz is ranked 37th at .695. #30 is .707. #15 is .745.

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by moonslav59

[notin]

I'm sure you're right about that. All the more amazing that really good catchers like Johnny Bench and Yogi Berra were also good hitters.

 

I think Pudge Rodriguez and Joe Mauer could be on that list.

 

The best All Around catchers today are probably JT Realmuto and Sean Murphy. With Adley Rutschman looking to climb that ladder fast…

[vegasbob]

Bloom was officially quoted by Speier , "It's still very early " Everyday I learn more and more about baseball from the insightful wisdom of its highly compensated geniuses. One question, do these games not count ?

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom was officially quoted by Speier , "It's still very early " Everyday I learn more and more about baseball from the insightful wisdom of its highly compensated geniuses. One question, do these games not count ?

 

Bloom is correct that it's very early.

Those who say every game count are also correct.

 

Yours truly,

Mr. Objective

[mvp 78]

Bloom is correct that it's very early.

Those who say every game count are also correct.

 

Yours truly,

Mr. Objective

 

It is early, because all the games from May - September still count and have yet to be played.

[Bellhorn04]

After 27 games the allegedly much-improved 2023 Red Sox are at 13-14, which would put them on a pace to equal 2022's 78 wins.

 

And I have a feeling we're going to have trouble doing that.

 

Sorry Chaim, it just ain't happening the way it was supposed to, buddy.

[Bellhorn04]

Chaim is going down, I'm afraid. The guy has a great smile and puts an upbeat spin on everything, but the reality is this 2023 team is woefully thin and is going to get ground up into hamburger patties when it plays the other AL East teams.

[notin]

Bloom was officially quoted by Speier , "It's still very early " Everyday I learn more and more about baseball from the insightful wisdom of its highly compensated geniuses. One question, do these games not count ?

 

And from Speier, who chose that quote to publish!!

[moonslav59]

Chaim is going down, I'm afraid. The guy has a great smile and puts an upbeat spin on everything, but the reality is this 2023 team is woefully thin and is going to get ground up into hamburger patties when it plays the other AL East teams.

 

I hope you continuing pessimism subsides, soon, but it is getting harder and harder to find a silver lining.

 

We have played more .500> teams than anyone else, so maybe when we start playing worse teams, we can cheer up, a bit.

[Bellhorn04]

I hope you continuing pessimism subsides, soon, but it is getting harder and harder to find a silver lining.

 

We have played more .500> teams than anyone else, so maybe when we start playing worse teams, we can cheer up, a bit.

 

Sorry man, I don't like it either, but this team is dead meat. I have no hope for it at all. You can't win with a rotation that gives up over 6 runs a game. And there are no fixes in sight. Just a lousy job by the people in charge, and they deserve all the heat they get for it.

[moonslav59]

Sorry man, I don't like it either, but this team is dead meat. I have no hope for it at all. You can't win with a rotation that gives up over 6 runs a game. And there are no fixes in sight. Just a lousy job by the people in charge, and they deserve all the heat they get for it.

 

No, we cannot win with a 6.44 rotation, but I'm not convinced, after just 27 starts, that will continue.

 

None of our starters have been this bad over their whole careers. Many have not had 4 start bad stretches, like this, of if they have, maybe once or twice, before bouncing back.

 

I can understand thinking things won't change. We seem to have found a groove of win one-lose one that we can't get out of. I'm feeling gloomy, too.

 

It's still April, though. Thinking like this in May is pushing it. I thought I was bad giving up on the 2022 Sox in early July.

[Bellhorn04]

No, we cannot win with a 6.44 rotation, but I'm not convinced, after just 27 starts, that will continue.

 

None of our starters have been this bad over their whole careers. Many have not had 4 start bad stretches, like this, of if they have, maybe once or twice, before bouncing back.

 

I can understand thinking things won't change. We seem to have found a groove of win one-lose one that we can't get out of. I'm feeling gloomy, too.

 

It's still April, though. Thinking like this in May is pushing it. I thought I was bad giving up on the 2022 Sox in early July.

 

For me this year is different than any other year since before Henry bought the team. I'm bitterly disappointed with the effort that went into this year's team. I'm surprised Henry wouldn't spend more, and my doubts about Bloom's abilities have grown to the point that I may not feel bad about his departure.

 

It's the first time in a long time I've felt this hopeless this early, no question.

[Old Red]

For me this year is different than any other year since before Henry bought the team. I'm bitterly disappointed with the effort that went into this year's team. I'm surprised Henry wouldn't spend more, and my doubts about Bloom's abilities have grown to the point that I may not feel bad about his departure.

 

It's the first time in a long time I've felt this hopeless this early, no question.

 

I’m not going to say I told you so, but I’ve felt this way ever since Bloom got hired.

[Hugh2]

I hope you continuing pessimism subsides, soon, but it is getting harder and harder to find a silver lining.

 

We have played more .500> teams than anyone else, so maybe when we start playing worse teams, we can cheer up, a bit.

 

This was my take….until we lost the first two to the Guardians.

[moonslav59]

For me this year is different than any other year since before Henry bought the team. I'm bitterly disappointed with the effort that went into this year's team. I'm surprised Henry wouldn't spend more, and my doubts about Bloom's abilities have grown to the point that I may not feel bad about his departure.

 

It's the first time in a long time I've felt this hopeless this early, no question.

 

This was the winter the wallet was opened, but I guess the context included losing the salaries of Boegy, Nate, JD and others.

 

I expected more spent on the rotation-either money or via trade, but it looks like they placed all their beans on offense, the pen and hopes that 4 of the 6 or 7 SP'ers would come through.

 

The extreme high prices for the best of the best FAs hampered our haul, to some extent, but Bloom was given enough to make a difference. He chose to spend just $14M on the rotation- Kluber and Paxton taking his option. That's on him.

 

It's unfortunate we lost Duvall. The loss of Story was more predictable, but still a shame. He seemed to miscalculate Mondesi's recovery time and Kike's defensive skills at SS.

 

Despite the injuries to Martin, Joely and Mills, he seems to have done well on constructing a reliable pen.

 

He's been all over the map on choosing D over O, then O over D- each to an extreme. That is puzzling, to say the least.

 

It's still only April. Kike seems to be waking up. Duran has been a pleasant surprise, and his new approach seems to indicate this may not be a fluke. (Sure, he will come down to earth, but maybe not .650. Turner and Yoshida are looking like good signings, and Verdugo is looking as good as he has ever looked. Again, these are all offense, except for the pen.

 

McGuire and Wong seem to be handling the catcher slot well, unless you want to blame them (McGuire, mainly) for the rotation's woes.

 

The 1B, 2B and SS positions have been major issues, so far, but all is not lost at those 3 slots.

 

I certainly don't feel as optimistic about our chances as I did in March or after winning the first series of the season, but I am pretty far from giving up all hope. Our schedule will get easier. We will get some injured players back and move some low performing players off the 26 by attrition. Maybe some more get hurt, but maybe not.

 

These other teams ahead of us have some major issues, too.

[moonslav59]

This was my take….until we lost the first two to the Guardians.

 

We are turning Cleveland into a .500+ team.

 

We've last 3 in a row (to PIT) and 4 in a row (to TBR,) but have yet to win more than 3 in a row (done twice.)

 

2 more v CLE

4 w TOR

3 @ PHI

2 @ ATL

3 v STL

3 v SEA

3 @ SDP

then...

3 @ LAA

3 @ AZ

3 v CIN

then back to tough opps...

4 v TBR

3@ CLE

3@ NYY

Our schedule is not looking much easier, coming up:

[Hugh2]

We are turning Cleveland into a .500+ team.

 

We've last 3 in a row (to PIT) and 4 in a row (to TBR,) but have yet to win more than 3 in a row (done twice.)

 

2 more v CLE

4 w TOR

3 @ PHI

2 @ ATL

3 v STL

3 v SEA

3 @ SDP

then...

3 @ LAA

3 @ AZ

3 v CIN

then back to tough opps...

4 v TBR

3@ CLE

3@ NYY

Our schedule is not looking much easier, coming up:

 

Hey you no me, I’m not quitter, and it’s still early. Still, this team isn’t exactly inspiring me to start placing bets on a world championship.

 

A lot has to go right this season, and so far it’s been a mixed bag. And while no injuries have been devastating, the seemingly wave of them makes one think at some point it’s going to take its toll.

 

Lots of baseball left to play. Baseball is more fun when the Sox when.

[moonslav59]

Hey you no me, I’m not quitter, and it’s still early. Still, this team isn’t exactly inspiring me to start placing bets on a world championship.

 

A lot has to go right this season, and so far it’s been a mixed bag. And while no injuries have been devastating, the seemingly wave of them makes one think at some point it’s going to take its toll.

 

Lots of baseball left to play. Baseball is more fun when the Sox when.

 

I can see why so many don't feel any or feel very little hope. We've shown a little bit of fight in some comeback wins, and the offense and pen have looked encouraging, but the rotation is killing any glimmer of light, so far.

 

There is nothing to say about the rotation that can look optimistic, but I just feel like there is just no way these guys are this bad and will continue being this bad over the next 5 months. Yes, we have 5 months to go. If I end up being wrong, it won't be the first time, but I just can't see it.

 

The Whitlock injury scares the bejesus out of me. To me, he was my main hope.

 

The Mata-Walter-Murphy brigade is looking like just a fairytale.

 

To think Crawford and Wink are doing this well, and we still have a staff looking this badly, says a lot about rest of the pitchers able to go 2+ innings.

 

Nobody seems to be grabbing the stopper role. I'm not sure any starter has put together two straight good starts, let alone two great ones. We need a few starters to begin doing that, and real soon, or else this season will quickly slip away, like 2022.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I can see why so many don't feel any or feel very little hope. We've shown a little bit of fight in some comeback wins, and the offense and pen have looked encouraging, but the rotation is killing any glimmer of light, so far.

 

There is nothing to say about the rotation that can look optimistic, but I just feel like there is just no way these guys are this bad and will continue being this bad over the next 5 months. Yes, we have 5 months to go. If I end up being wrong, it won't be the first time, but I just can't see it.

 

The Whitlock injury scares the bejesus out of me. To me, he was my main hope.

 

The Mata-Walter-Murphy brigade is looking like just a fairytale.

 

To think Crawford and Wink are doing this well, and we still have a staff looking this badly, says a lot about rest of the pitchers able to go 2+ innings.

 

Nobody seems to be grabbing the stopper role. I'm not sure any starter has put together two straight good starts, let alone two great ones. We need a few starters to begin doing that, and real soon, or else this season will quickly slip away, like 2022.

 

I gotta say you are being very rational with your summaries lately. I want to be optimistic, too. I want the Red Sox to at least be alive for a postseason berth into September. I have high hopes for Bello and his stuff, but realize it may be a year or two before he strings together quality starts or better yet months of quality starts.

 

As for the rest of the rotation, I just don't see such a happening for any of them... unless improvement is defined by two good games in a row. Houck has been ok, but is he already at his ceiling as a starter? For the others, we can hope and wish and pray... but this staff sure looks destined to bounce between a few games over and a few games under .500 into the summer.

[moonslav59]

I gotta say you are being very rational with your summaries lately. I want to be optimistic, too. I want the Red Sox to at least be alive for a postseason berth into September. I have high hopes for Bello and his stuff, but realize it may be a year or two before he strings together quality starts or better yet months of quality starts.

 

As for the rest of the rotation, I just don't see such a happening for any of them... unless improvement is defined by two good games in a row. Houck has been ok, but is he already at his ceiling as a starter? For the others, we can hope and wish and pray... but this staff sure looks destined to bounce between a few games over and a few games under .500 into the summer.

 

My thought was starting with 2 good games in a row and then maybe repeating that a few more times, afterwards while avoiding two bad ones in a row, along the way.

 

You gotta start somewhere, and I'm not sure anyone has done even that, yet.

[mvp 78]

This was the winter the wallet was opened, but I guess the context included losing the salaries of Boegy, Nate, JD and others.

 

The wallet didn't open. It's just a shell game. They are UNDER the CBT. They signed Devers to an extension after being embarrassed at the winter meetings when Xander signed with the Padres, Chaim was left to look shell shocked at the airport and Henry was berated in public.

 

I don't think they realistically met the expectations of "opening their wallets" and acting as a large market franchise this offseason.

[Bellhorn04]

The wallet didn't open. It's just a shell game. They are UNDER the CBT. They signed Devers to an extension after being embarrassed at the winter meetings when Xander signed with the Padres, Chaim was left to look shell shocked at the airport and Henry was berated in public.

 

I don't think they realistically met the expectations of "opening their wallets" and acting as a large market franchise this offseason.

 

I don't disagree with you. At the same time, I don't think it's really fair to dismiss the Devers extension as "something they had to do". Have to give them credit for doing the right thing there.

[mvp 78]

I don't disagree with you. At the same time, I don't think it's really fair to dismiss the Devers extension as "something they had to do". Have to give them credit for doing the right thing there.

 

If they didn't do the Devers extension, what would the conversation be surrounding the team right now? What would the atmosphere be like?

[Old Red]

If they didn't do the Devers extension, what would the conversation be surrounding the team right now? What would the atmosphere be like?

 

I still surprised Raffy signed when he did, and didn’t at least see what FA had to offer. I think he left some money on the table.

[moonslav59]

The wallet didn't open. It's just a shell game. They are UNDER the CBT. They signed Devers to an extension after being embarrassed at the winter meetings when Xander signed with the Padres, Chaim was left to look shell shocked at the airport and Henry was berated in public.

 

I don't think they realistically met the expectations of "opening their wallets" and acting as a large market franchise this offseason.

 

Committing to over $650M since the Story signing is "opening the wallet," to me.

 

I get the fact that the added salary committed to 2023 barely replaced what came off the books from 2022, but when you look at where we were after the budget cuts that actually began before the 2019 season, we have begun to return to the high added spending of previous years. From the winter of '18-'19 to the Story signing in March 2022, we were far from spending like a large market team, but since then, I disagree with your take.

[mvp 78]

I still surprised Raffy signed when he did, and didn’t at least see what FA had to offer. I think he left some money on the table.

 

I think he had an amount in his head and the Sox got there. The risk of him getting seriously injured this year and affecting that money was too great. He gets 313, but leaves 40 on the table? It's still generational changing money. If he gets a serious back injury, maybe the contract is cut in half? He wasn't exactly the picture of health last season.

[Bellhorn04]

I still surprised Raffy signed when he did, and didn’t at least see what FA had to offer. I think he left some money on the table.

 

He can probably make ends meet with $331 million though.

[notin]

The wallet didn't open. It's just a shell game. They are UNDER the CBT. They signed Devers to an extension after being embarrassed at the winter meetings when Xander signed with the Padres, Chaim was left to look shell shocked at the airport and Henry was berated in public.

 

I don't think they realistically met the expectations of "opening their wallets" and acting as a large market franchise this offseason.

 

I thought you were fighting disinformation…

[notin]

I still surprised Raffy signed when he did, and didn’t at least see what FA had to offer. I think he left some money on the table.

 

Hard to walk away from $300+ million, especially knowing one bad knee injury can make it a horrible financial decision…