Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

I know everyone has this thought lurking somewhere in their mind.

 

If this team is even worse than the 2022 team, is Bloom gone?

 

It might depend on how our young players are looking, and if 2024 looks hopeful, but that's a fine line to draw. If our young players are doing well, we should not be worse.

 

At least, in the past, when we sucked, we had so many 1 year deals, it was easier to move on. This time, we have more 2 year deals, options and even the Story, Yoshida, Whitlock and Devers long deals set in stone.

[mvp 78]

It might depend on how our young players are looking, and if 2024 looks hopeful, but that's a fine line to draw. If our young players are doing well, we should not be worse.

 

At least, in the past, when we sucked, we had so many 1 year deals, it was easier to move on. This time, we have more 2 year deals, options and even the Story, Yoshida, Whitlock and Devers long deals set in stone.

 

Even with some one year deals, what will Bloom replace them with? More old starting rotation guys on one year deals?

[mvp 78]

I know everyone has this thought lurking somewhere in their mind.

 

If this team is even worse than the 2022 team, is Bloom gone?

 

We've discussed this ad nauseam, I believe. He's following the Ben Cherington trajectory. It depends on if Henry is ok with it. If I'm the owner, I'm not happy with it.

[Bellhorn04]

With more facts now in, it's time for me to concede that you guys who said there should have been a fire sale last year were obviously right.

[mvp 78]

With more facts now in, it's time for me to concede that you guys who said there should have been a fire sale last year were obviously right.

 

Look, it's hard to not want to win as many games as possible every year. I get it. I don't fault posters that wanted to try for the playoffs last season.

 

To me, it just seemed like the team was treading water and Bloom's whole plan was to build for the future. Right now, it's unclear how he's building a future? He's hoarding average prospects. I'm not sure that gets the job done.

 

I agree with the theory of what was proposed, I don't agree with its execution.

[mvp 78]

I also completely understand why some people have hated Bloom from day one. He has no personality, got hosed on the Betts trade and looked absolutely foolish in 2020. If there was a carry over from 2021 into 2022, maybe there'd be an argument that Bloom is THE guy? Right now, his future is murky at best.

 

Aside from tanking a short season to get Mayer and selecting Whitlock, what has he done?

[jad]

So the RS now have a payroll of over 200M. They have gotten rid of productive and popular players (Vaz, Betts, Bogey, even JD), attendance is way down. And the team is dismal. You can blame Bloom; you can blame Henry. But you have to blame someone other than FATE for the thousands of fans who no longer bother to go to games.

[mvp 78]

Will look forward to Speier's next book: KaBloom: How the Red Sox Blew Up Their Historic Franchise...

[Old Red]

I know everyone has this thought lurking somewhere in their mind.

 

If this team is even worse than the 2022 team, is Bloom gone?

 

I’m not panicking yet, and it’s only 5 games into the season. I never wanted Bloom here in the first place, but i don’t want this team to be worse than the 2022 team either.

[Old Red]

Look, it's hard to not want to win as many games as possible every year. I get it. I don't fault posters that wanted to try for the playoffs last season.

 

To me, it just seemed like the team was treading water and Bloom's whole plan was to build for the future. Right now, it's unclear how he's building a future? He's hoarding average prospects. I'm not sure that gets the job done.

 

I agree with the theory of what was proposed, I don't agree with its execution.

I was one who wanted the Red Sox to win as many games as they could last year even though making the playoffs seemed murky at best. I wanted them to resign Bogey, and I haven’t gotten over how they went about, but I’ve gotten over that he’s gone. Some wanted a fire sale, but I just didn’t see getting back a bunch of average suspects would make the Red Sox any better in the future.

[Old Red]

With more facts now in, it's time for me to concede that you guys who said there should have been a fire sale last year were obviously right.

 

It might have been right to have had the fire sale, but to you really trust Bloom to have gotten something back that would make a difference?

[Bellhorn04]

It might have been right to have had the fire sale, but to you really trust Bloom to have gotten something back that would make a difference?

 

Two very separate questions indeed.

 

My confidence in Bloom is very low right now.

[moonslav59]

Even with some one year deals, what will Bloom replace them with? More old starting rotation guys on one year deals?

 

Hard to know. To me, it looked like the organization was starting to slowly more towards more stability with the Devers extension and the Yoshida/Story signings all coming within a 10 month period. Add to that more 2 year deals and 2nd year team options and the Whitlock extensión, and it seemed like the tide was turning.

 

I have always felt a strong Sox pattern has been to wait to add an ace, especially if expensive, until they felt like they were one or two big players away from ring contention, and it hasn't felt like we have reached that point since 2018 (when we added Nate.) I'm not sure next winter will be "that time," either. I had hopes this past winter might be "splurge time."

 

Losing Nate, Wacha and Hill and adding just Kluber was a huge gamble on Sale, Whitlock, Bello and Paxton. Certainly, this is not a ring contending rotation, and it is looking like the team is more than just one ace away from top contention.

 

The season is young. I still have hopes in Whitlock & Bello, and maybe Sale can find some lost magic. It could also be a really bad season, but I'm going to try and stay optimistic as long as I can. (I don't expect others to.)

[moonslav59]

It might have been right to have had the fire sale, but to you really trust Bloom to have gotten something back that would make a difference?

 

One has to think better than lowered comp picks.

[moonslav59]

I was one who wanted the Red Sox to win as many games as they could last year even though making the playoffs seemed murky at best. I wanted them to resign Bogey, and I haven’t gotten over how they went about, but I’ve gotten over that he’s gone. Some wanted a fire sale, but I just didn’t see getting back a bunch of average suspects would make the Red Sox any better in the future.

 

I think we could have gotten more than "average" for Bogey.

 

The haul we got for Diekman and Vaz may look "suspect," but I think we could have done better with Wacha, Hill and Strahm. Had we paid a chunk of Nate and JD's contracts, maybe better than suspects for them, too.

 

Having more and better prospects would also better position us for some sort of trade like the Seattle for Castillo one, but one wonders if Bloom has a trade like that in him.

[moonslav59]

One notable aspect of Bloom's trades for prospects is that many involved getting a vet with them. In some cases, the salary aspect of the trade sweetened the prospect value (like German with Ottavino and Hamilton/Binelas with JBJ,) but I think many broght down the value.

 

Wong and Downs with Verdugo

Winckowski & Co. with Cordero

Seabold with Pivetta

Ferguson & Rosier with Hosmer

 

Had Bloom just gone for a straight prospect package, maybe he does better- or NOT!

[mvp 78]

I’m not panicking yet, and it’s only 5 games into the season. I never wanted Bloom here in the first place, but i don’t want this team to be worse than the 2022 team either.

 

As always, it's just a wait and see until Memorial Day. No harm in complaining though.

[mvp 78]

I was one who wanted the Red Sox to win as many games as they could last year even though making the playoffs seemed murky at best. I wanted them to resign Bogey, and I haven’t gotten over how they went about, but I’ve gotten over that he’s gone. Some wanted a fire sale, but I just didn’t see getting back a bunch of average suspects would make the Red Sox any better in the future.

 

A good GM would get prospect that are not "average" for Xander or Betts.

[mvp 78]

It might have been right to have had the fire sale, but to you really trust Bloom to have gotten something back that would make a difference?

 

You have to. He has the job. Otherwise, you're just packing it in until he's fired.

[moonslav59]

You have to. He has the job. Otherwise, you're just packing it in until he's fired.

 

Yup.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I hate the Bloom Era, because he's done what he was hired to do -- which includes BSing the fanbase, while saying goodbye to expensive stars and pretending to build an annual contender. He's obviously patching holes with average big leaguers while trying to sell the illusion of fielding an above-average team.

 

Bloom has always insisted his goal is to build a sustained contender that aims for rings every year -- nothing wrong with that, and shouldn't every GM/CBO have such aspirations? The thing is, cultivating the farm, then wishing/hoping/praying for expedited germination doesn't necessarily yield a better harvest.

 

It would be great to keep promoting and locking up young studs on the cheap like Atlanta. But the Braves won in '21 because they also signed Morton for big money, as well as Smyly, to lead their young rotation. And then -- when they lost their best player, Acuna, to injury, and the NL's HR and RBI king Ozuna, to personal issues -- they didn't give up, but instead traded for the following: Duvall, who led the league in ribbies, Soler and Rosario, who each won postseason MVPs, and Pederson, who hit homers and wore pearls. They also landed highly-sought reliever Richard Rodriquez, who turned out to be a non-factor.

 

You gotta do both every year. And do better than adding the overrated Story, who couldn't even play the position he was obviously acquired for, to specifically replace the homegrown star and fan favorite for half the price...

[moonslav59]

I hate the Bloom Era, because he's done what he was hired to do -- which includes BSing the fanbase, while saying goodbye to expensive stars and pretending to build an annual contender. He's obviously patching holes with average big leaguers while trying to sell the illusion of fielding an above-average team.

 

Bloom has always insisted his goal is to build a sustained contender that aims for rings every year -- nothing wrong with that, and shouldn't every GM/CBO have such aspirations? The thing is, cultivating the farm, then wishing/hoping/praying for expedited germination doesn't necessarily yield a better harvest.

 

It would be great to keep promoting and locking up young studs on the cheap like Atlanta. But the Braves won in '21 because they also signed Morton for big money, as well as Smyly, to lead their young rotation. And then -- when they lost their best player, Acuna, to injury, and the NL's HR and RBI king Ozuna, to personal issues -- they didn't give up, but instead traded for the following: Duvall, who led the league in ribbies, Soler and Rosario, who each won postseason MVPs, and Pederson, who hit homers and wore pearls. They also landed highly-sought reliever Richard Rodriquez, who turned out to be a non-factor.

 

You gotta do both every year. And do better than adding the overrated Story, who couldn't even play the position he was obviously acquired for, to specifically replace the homegrown star and fan favorite for half the price...

 

There are so many similarities to Ben, it's hard to list them all.

[Bellhorn04]

I hate the Bloom Era, because he's done what he was hired to do -- which includes BSing the fanbase, while saying goodbye to expensive stars and pretending to build an annual contender. He's obviously patching holes with average big leaguers while trying to sell the illusion of fielding an above-average team.

 

I really don't think John Henry will be a happy camper if the team wins 75 games this year and attendance and ratings go down. He may have hired Bloom to get the payroll under control, but he didn't hire him to produce s***** teams and apathetic fans.

[jad]

I hate the Bloom Era, because he's done what he was hired to do -- which includes BSing the fanbase, while saying goodbye to expensive stars and pretending to build an annual contender. He's obviously patching holes with average big leaguers while trying to sell the illusion of fielding an above-average team.

 

Bloom has always insisted his goal is to build a sustained contender that aims for rings every year -- nothing wrong with that, and shouldn't every GM/CBO have such aspirations? The thing is, cultivating the farm, then wishing/hoping/praying for expedited germination doesn't necessarily yield a better harvest.

 

It would be great to keep promoting and locking up young studs on the cheap like Atlanta. But the Braves won in '21 because they also signed Morton for big money, as well as Smyly, to lead their young rotation. And then -- when they lost their best player, Acuna, to injury, and the NL's HR and RBI king Ozuna, to personal issues -- they didn't give up, but instead traded for the following: Duvall, who led the league in ribbies, Soler and Rosario, who each won postseason MVPs, and Pederson, who hit homers and wore pearls. They also landed highly-sought reliever Richard Rodriquez, who turned out to be a non-factor.

 

You gotta do both every year. And do better than adding the overrated Story, who couldn't even play the position he was obviously acquired for, to specifically replace the homegrown star and fan favorite for half the price...

 

100% agree!

[moonslav59]

I really don't think John Henry will be a happy camper if the team wins 75 games this year and attendance and ratings go down. He may have hired Bloom to get the payroll under control, but he didn't hire him to produce s***** teams and apathetic fans.

 

A lot has to do with how the future will be shaping up by the end of the season. If Mayer, rafaela, Yorke, Mata and others don't step up, and our longer term MLB players are not looking promising for 2024, we might win 85+ games and Bloom could be gone.

[Bellhorn04]

A lot has to do with how the future will be shaping up by the end of the season. If Mayer, rafaela, Yorke, Mata and others don't step up, and our longer term MLB players are not looking promising for 2024, we might win 85+ games and Bloom could be gone.

 

Only one of those is a pitcher, and he's not really considered to have a super-high ceiling AFAIK.

 

The biggest question with this team is the starting pitching.

 

IF Bello and Whitlock really step up, there may be some hope.

[notin]

Only one of those is a pitcher, and he's not really considered to have a super-high ceiling AFAIK.

 

The biggest question with this team is the starting pitching.

 

IF Bello and Whitlock really step up, there may be some hope.

 

Bello and Whitlock could be at/near the top of this rotation for the next 4 years. That’s not a bad starting point…

[Old Red]

Only one of those is a pitcher, and he's not really considered to have a super-high ceiling AFAIK.

 

The biggest question with this team is the starting pitching.

 

IF Bello and Whitlock really step up, there may be some hope.

Right now Casas has to step up. A lot is riding on him, and his hype, and if he doesn’t pan out it will be a serious blow to what has been counted on for a few years now. Maybe it’s been too cold to do his sun bathing ritual, and it’s messed him up. Hopefully that’s all it is.

[Old Red]

A good GM would get prospect that are not "average" for Xander or Betts.

 

What is Downs, and Wong?

[moonslav59]

Only one of those is a pitcher, and he's not really considered to have a super-high ceiling AFAIK.

 

The biggest question with this team is the starting pitching.

 

IF Bello and Whitlock really step up, there may be some hope.

 

If Whitlock, Bello and Casas do well, and most of our top prospects are looking good or better, it may be enough to over-ride a bad season. I think expensive players like Yoshida and Story will have to look promising, too.

 

The thing is, if all these guys look good, we should not have a bad season, unless everyone else craps themselves. I guess if Kluber, Turner, Duvall, Kike, jansen and Martin mostly suck, that's on Bloom, too, so maybe that would be enough to convince Henry he isn't good at evaluating FAs, and we need a change.

 

If Sale sucks, it would be hard to blame Bloom for that, but he alone will not decide what happens.

 

Bloom is out of excuses. This is his team, now.

 

He's had a decent budget for 2 years, and enough of his farm additions should be advanced enough to be either contributing or looking like can't miss by the end of 2023.

 

It's make or break time for Bloom.