Fire Bloom .

[Bellhorn04]

I defended it at the time, saying he got the money he deserved for 4 healthy years on a 5 year deal.

 

The deal sucks, now.

 

I know many felt it sucked at the time, and they were right. I and others were wrong.

 

I don't see anybody saying it was a good deal, in hindsight.

 

I still say it was a case of depending on the medical staff. I don't see what's wrong with saying that. There were obvious ?'s about his health, but at the same time no one was sure about it one way or the other.

 

And Dave Dombrowski was not being paid to be a doctor.

 

For tax purposes the deal was valued at 5/$128. That sure seemed like a discount.

[moonslav59]

Btw, I seriously doubt the SOX FO could have acquired thru trade a quality 1st baseman any sooner then the TDL.

 

It's very rare to make meaningful trades in late May/early June, but usually 1Bmen are plentiful, and I do think we could have gotten a serviceable 1B after the Casas injury on May 24th.

 

I think Bloom and Cora were hoping Dalbec would repeat his 2021 second half hot streak, but it never happened. (BTW, he is at .729 since July 8th.)

 

I also think Henry was against adding more salary, so the types of 1Bmen available after May 24th, might have been mostly salary dump kind of 1Bmen.

[Old Red]

I don't think Cora is going anywhere unless he's fired. He makes a nice salary, I'm sure. And Tomase is wrong in his thinking that this team is in rebuild mode until 2025 or whatever.

 

I agree, but I guess my way of thinking is that a team with a $200M+ payroll should never be in any kind of rebuild mode unless things aren’t run right, and bad decisions are made. Just an opinion.

[Bobe2]

The Red Sox have a salary of approximately $230 million this year, with the highest average cost for a family of four to purchase tickets $324 (just tickets no refreshments). The Dodgers have a salary of approximately $330 million with a $47 million penalty yet a family of four can purchase tickets for $265, so the Dodgers pay $147 million more for salary and have cheaper ticket prices, the Red Sox if they don’t resign their free agents will have a salary under $90 million next year, and a team of AAA players playing in the major leagues exactly like they are doing now, I guess their getting us used to it, Bloom is building the Tampa Bay Rays of Massachusetts, never win it all but come just close enough to keep fans interested while making a larger profit at the fans expense, if the Sox keep doing things Blooms way settle back it’s going to be another long 86 years. Now all we can do is sit back and watch him screw up negotiations with Bogarts and Denver’s

[a700hitter]

You know what, though? I'll bet Bloom would have gotten hammered no matter what he did.

 

Fire sale? Oh yeah, sure, let's treat the fans to the end of 2012 all over again.

Go for it big time? What a fool, throwing away good prospects on a slim chance at a playoff run.

Don't do much either way? Indecisive bum!

He would have been hammered by one group of he sold and another group if he bought, but no one know what to make of this deadline strategy, so he is getting blasted by everyone including Pedro.

[Bellhorn04]

Now all we can do is sit back and watch him screw up negotiations with Bogarts and Denver’s

 

Especially Denver's.

[Bobe2]

Does anyone have any idea why they traded Vazquez, they got nothing for him, the only thing I can think of is he’s going to be a free agent and they don’t want to pay him, almost as stupid a trade as the Renfroe trade how can any sane person trade away 70 HR and not replace them and expect to win (Renfroe, Schwarber)

[dgalehouse]

Using injuries as an excuse is extremely lame. All teams have injuries.

[Maxbialystock]

Thanks for labeling me into a category. But if you actually read posts attributed to individual posters, you'd know that I never ignore the total payroll -- I always acknowledge we're Number Six! But thanks for pointing out again some of the contracts that Bloom had nothing to do with, thus bringing back the focus on the players he actually spent on. I have also acknowledged what I consider Story's Gold Glove defense several times, as I have always been an advocate of defense, above all other assets, for true contenders.

 

Maybe it's not so ludicrous, but only natural, that some fans here, as well as elsewhere, look at the the quality of players on the current Red Sox roster and wonder if Bloom could've spent some of those limited dollars in better places. His defenders argue that his plan was dashed by injuries, while his skeptics wish he could've monitored and adjusted sooner. It's what we do on Talk Sox forum.

 

Good comeback. I should have said "you and some Bloom-blamers." Agree completely that we need skeptics and defenders on Talk Sox.

 

Simply stated, my defense of Bloom is based on what he did at Tampa, John Henry's evident decision to try another way besides DD's "buy what you need" approach, and the fact that 2021 was a pretty good year.

 

On the other hand, I recognize the Sox ain't the Rays and that John Henry will spend a lot more for players than do the Rays. However, even John Henry has his limits.

[Bellhorn04]

Using injuries as an excuse is extremely lame. All teams have injuries.

 

The second sentence is 100% true.

 

But some teams do have very unlucky seasons for injuries.

 

The 2006 Red Sox come to mind.

[Bellhorn04]

Does anyone have any idea why they traded Vazquez, they got nothing for him, the only thing I can think of is he’s going to be a free agent and they don’t want to pay him, almost as stupid a trade as the Renfroe trade how can any sane person trade away 70 HR and not replace them and expect to win (Renfroe, Schwarber)

 

Schwarber was a rental last year and Dave Dombrowski gave him a 4 year/$79 million contract.

 

I like Schwarb a lot. He hits a lot of homers.

 

He's also hitting .204. It's not all good.

[jung]

The Red Sox have a salary of approximately $230 million this year, with the highest average cost for a family of four to purchase tickets $324 (just tickets no refreshments). The Dodgers have a salary of approximately $330 million with a $47 million penalty yet a family of four can purchase tickets for $265, so the Dodgers pay $147 million more for salary and have cheaper ticket prices, the Red Sox if they don’t resign their free agents will have a salary under $90 million next year, and a team of AAA players playing in the major leagues exactly like they are doing now, I guess their getting us used to it, Bloom is building the Tampa Bay Rays of Massachusetts, never win it all but come just close enough to keep fans interested while making a larger profit at the fans expense, if the Sox keep doing things Blooms way settle back it’s going to be another long 86 years. Now all we can do is sit back and watch him screw up negotiations with Bogarts and Denver’s

 

I think you may have hit on it. I am not even convinced that Kennedy and the business side of the house will let Bloom go "full Bloom" (pardon the pun). Nor am I convinced that JH considered that when he brought Bloom in here.

 

There are some overarching MLB issues and then some Sox issues that are a bit worrisome. For MLB, they have a 162 game schedule, by far the most regular season games of any of the four major team sports and yet we now have even more post season teams which dilutes the value of the 162. We now have three WC teams from each league instead of two. In other words if you are breathing, you are in. That is not a great way to sell a 162 game season. As for the Sox themselves their ticket prices make it even more of a challenge for them to make the 162 attractive to fans.

 

To be honest, the only way I can tolerate NESN and its goofy announcers and the usual TV camera angles is because I know what I am not seeing and much like a studious football fan that does not follow the football around like a lemming instead following the line play, I will try to find what I am looking for in a baseball telecast by looking AROUND the screen, at the edges. I already know where the damned ball is going. But I digress.

 

Kennedy IMO will force this to be partially what we have grown to expect from the Sox administration and partially what Bloom does from Baseball Operations and the result will be not enough of either....a middling approach which clearly Bloom never was a part of in Tampa because Tampa is Tampa and Boston is Boston.

 

I don't know what decision JH will make. But there will come a day when Kennedy pitches JH that their attendance sucks....which by Sox standards it does now and that TV ratings are pitiful.....they are now and the team is simply not something Boston fans can empathize with nor finds interesting. Bloom's pitch will be, ya' gotta' let me do my thing.

[Bellhorn04]

I actually think Henry has more guts than people give him credit for. I think he knew there was going to be pain when he replaced DD with Bloom.

 

Red Sox fans make a ruckus but at the end of the day they stick around. They have stuck around through 4 last place finishes since 2012, and yes, it may be 5 after this year.

[Old Red]

He would have been hammered by one group of he sold and another group if he bought, but no one know what to make of this deadline strategy, so he is getting blasted by everyone including Pedro.

 

That’s why looking for that third option when he came to that fork in the road was a good analogy of Bloom.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s why looking for that third option when he came to that fork in the road was a good analogy of Bloom.

 

He had no really good options IMHO.

[Bobe2]

Your living in the past, if that’s all you want is 4 championships then you have the right GM in Bloom, the Yankees have 27 titles and they are hungry for more and will do what it takes or costs to get it, So this fall when they raise the trophy and talk smack you tell them that’s alright we don’t care, we saved a lot of money for a group of billionaires

[Old Red]

I actually think Henry has more guts than people give him credit for. I think he knew there was going to be pain when he replaced DD with Bloom.

 

Red Sox fans make a ruckus but at the end of the day they stick around. They have stuck around through 4 last place finishes since 2012, and yes, it may be 5 after this year.

Actual attendance is on a pace to be the lowest in the Henry era, and NESN ratings are down too, and that JH does not like.

[a700hitter]

He had no really good options IMHO.

Don’t you live in Canada? You do realize there were better options?

[moonslav59]

Especially Denver's.

 

We should have never let John Denver go, although his personal life was a bit concerning.

[Old Red]

He had no really good options IMHO.

 

He would have if he would have done something in the last three years, so he wouldn’t have come to that fork in the road like not having all the existing expiring contracts, or Raffy, and Bogey twisting in the wind.

[moonslav59]

Does anyone have any idea why they traded Vazquez, they got nothing for him, the only thing I can think of is he’s going to be a free agent and they don’t want to pay him, almost as stupid a trade as the Renfroe trade how can any sane person trade away 70 HR and not replace them and expect to win (Renfroe, Schwarber)

 

To me, it was obvious.

 

They knew they were not going to re-sign him in 2 months. (Even if they like him, he's all but said, he'd come back as a FA.)

 

We got two rising prospects, and then we traded garbage (Diekman) for a decent defensive catcher that may hold his own when compared to the Astros now back-up catcher.

[Old Red]

He had no really good options IMHO.

 

You sound like Bloom thinks. You seriously think that Bloom had no really good options?

Edited August 6, 2022 by Old Red

[Old Red]

To me, it was obvious.

 

They knew they were not going to re-sign him in 2 months. (Even if they like him, he's all but said, he'd come back as a FA.)

 

We got two rising prospects, and then we traded garbage (Diekman) for a decent defensive catcher that may hold his own when compared to the Astros now back-up catcher.

You got two minor league players. Once again not all are prospects.

[Bobe2]

He has 34 HR

[Old Red]

Your living in the past, if that’s all you want is 4 championships then you have the right GM in Bloom, the Yankees have 27 titles and they are hungry for more and will do what it takes or costs to get it, So this fall when they raise the trophy and talk smack you tell them that’s alright we don’t care, we saved a lot of money for a group of billionaires

 

Plenty of truth, and plenty of substance, and you did have to write a whole page to do it. Well done.

[moonslav59]

Your living in the past, if that’s all you want is 4 championships then you have the right GM in Bloom, the Yankees have 27 titles and they are hungry for more and will do what it takes or costs to get it, So this fall when they raise the trophy and talk smack you tell them that’s alright we don’t care, we saved a lot of money for a group of billionaires

 

We are going to make a serious run at 5 rings under Henry. This is NOT the first time he's gone cheap on new spending, sometimes for 2-3 year stretches.

 

Nobody is hoping we become the Rays. We are hoping we can take the Rays' approach and add spending to the equation and become consistent winners but with actual rings to show for it.

 

The Dodger and Astros have taken that approach. The Dodgers have spent like drunken sailors, but the Astros have let some big stars walk and have made the ALCS 4 straight seasons. It can be done, but not overnight.

 

The Astros were as bad as our 2020 team, long ago. They did not rebuild overnight.

[jung]

To me, it was obvious.

 

They knew they were not going to re-sign him in 2 months. (Even if they like him, he's all but said, he'd come back as a FA.)

 

We got two rising prospects, and then we traded garbage (Diekman) for a decent defensive catcher that may hold his own when compared to the Astros now back-up catcher.

 

 

Well as long as they realize that they are out of it this year even if they get in it. They will be one of those last two WC teams that never would have even been in before this year.....in other words, post season teams of the barely breathing variety that did nothing significant enough to get them anywhere in the post season on top of everything else. This is not like Atlanta from the four WC team format buying up the world at the trade deadline for their run.

[Old Red]

We are going to make a serious run at 5 rings under Henry. This is NOT the first time he's gone cheap on new spending, sometimes for 2-3 year stretches.

 

Nobody is hoping we become the Rays. We are hoping we can take the Rays' approach and add spending to the equation and become consistent winners but with actual rings to show for it.

 

The Dodger and Astros have taken that approach. The Dodgers have spent like drunken sailors, but the Astros have let some big stars walk and have made the ALCS 4 straight seasons. It can be done, but not overnight.

 

The Astros were as bad as our 2020 team, long ago. They did not rebuild overnight.

You keep on talking of what Henry has done in the past, but this is not the same JH as in the past.

[jung]

I actually think Henry has more guts than people give him credit for. I think he knew there was going to be pain when he replaced DD with Bloom.

 

Red Sox fans make a ruckus but at the end of the day they stick around. They have stuck around through 4 last place finishes since 2012, and yes, it may be 5 after this year.

 

If you look at attendance and TV ratings, they are not sticking around this year and at Sox ticket prices empty seats leave a mark as do dropping ratings.

 

Henry IS getting on in years. Its possible that he is looking for a window to sell out.

[cp176]

I don't know, cp, most of the posters here now seem to agree that the Sale extension was a massive blunder.

 

And I've been one of the few who has tried to defend DD on that one.

 

In hindsight it absolutely could be called a blunder but at the time, I don't think so at all. Well worth the risk in my opinion. I've always been a JBJ fan but I don't see how anyone could come close to thinking that signing Sale to an extension in anyway compares to bringing him back. That move was really more than a blunder. With respect to Sale, he still might surprise us. Although Bell I have to say that based on Bloom's moves to date and all of the potential lineups for next season that I have seen people post here, i'm not sure any talented veteran would want to play for us regardless of the size of the contract. Some still want to win.