Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

Renfroe is under the Brewers' control this year and next.

 

He's making 7.5 mill this year and probably 10.5 or 11 next year.

 

This may turn out to be a minus trade, but it's unlikely to be a seriously bad one.

 

It was a major upgrade on defense.

 

Thanks for the correction, and ultimately how well Binelas and or Hamilton do might make or break the deal, but adding prospects like Binelas, Hamilton, German, Seabold, Winckowski and promising guys like Pivetta and Cordero improves the odds on someone coming through, eventually.

 

To me, the worst part of the Renfroe deal was not losing his offense, which should be offset some for his poor D, but the money aspect. That $8M option of JBJ's $12M 2023 salary gave me scalp scabs.

[Bellhorn04]

To me, the worst part of the Renfroe deal was not losing his offense, which should be offset some for his poor D, but the money aspect. That $8M option of JBJ's $12M 2023 salary gave me scalp scabs.

 

Assuming JBJ and Renfroe both play next year, JBJ will cost $24 mill and Renfroe will cost about $18.5 mill. So a $5.5 mill difference over 2 years.

 

A questionable move, but not nearly the fiasco some have tried to make it out to be.

[moonslav59]

Assuming JBJ and Renfroe both play next year, JBJ will cost $24 mill and Renfroe will cost about $18.5 mill. So a $5.5 mill difference over 2 years.

 

A questionable move, but not nearly the fiasco some have tried to make it out to be.

 

Add that $5.5M to what we paid Diekman, and maybe we get someone good/better.

 

(Yimi Garcia, Knebel, Raley, Tepera or add a little more and get Jansen)

[Fan_since_Boggs]

The mistake was going into the season with two losers in right field: Bradley and Arroyo, along with the same old issues at 1b. If the Red Sox wanted to trade Renfroe, fine, trade him, but don't trade him for garbage like Jackie Bradley. Get a prospect for Renfroe and figure out another plan for RF other than the clown show of Bradley and Arroyo.

[Bellhorn04]

Add that $5.5M to what we paid Diekman, and maybe we get someone good/better.

 

(Yimi Garcia, Knebel, Raley, Tepera or add a little more and get Jansen)

 

I realize.

 

The bottom line is Bloom had his reasons and he seems pretty smart to me. He's made a lot of good moves. I don't see getting up in arms about the possibility of being on the losing end of a relatively minor deal.

[Bellhorn04]

The mistake was going into the season with two losers in right field: Bradley and Arroyo, along with the same old issues at 1b. If the Red Sox wanted to trade Renfroe, fine, trade him, but don't trade him for garbage like Jackie Bradley. Get a prospect for Renfroe and figure out another plan for RF other than the clown show of Bradley and Arroyo.

 

Criticizing Bradley is one thing, calling him a loser and garbage is just wrong. He's a veteran who's been on division winning teams, won an ALCS MVP award and a World Series ring, career WAR of 18 etc.

[moonslav59]

Let's not forget the 40 man roster we had in 2020 cannot really be blamed on Bloom, and as reminder, here is a list of some of the players that played a significant amount of time in that short season:

 

Rank in PAs in '20:

5. JBJ

7. Chavis

8. Pillar

9. Peraza

10, Dalbec

11. Plawecki

12. Arauz (more than 1/3 the PAs as Bogey)

14. Lin

17. Munoz (1/5 the PAs as Verdugo)

 

Rank in IP

1. Perez (Bloom's highest paid FA)

3. Weber

4. Valdez

5. Mazza

6. Godley

7. Brewer

8. Brasier

10. Springs

11. Brice

13. Osich

14. Covey (about 30% of the IP as Eovaldi)

15. Kickham (same as Covey)

16. Stock

17. Walden

18. Hart (almost 20% of the IP Eovaldi had)

20. Hembree

21-.30 Hall, Triggs, Leyer, Tapia (com bined for more than 50% of Eovaldi)

 

Think about just how bad things were in Bloom's first year. He's made some mistakes on the way, most on low cost contracts, but the roster and farm have come a long way in about 2 years.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

I realize.

 

The bottom line is Bloom had his reasons and he seems pretty smart to me. He's made a lot of good moves. I don't see getting up in arms about the possibility of being on the losing end of a relatively minor deal.

 

I'm fine with Bloom, and expect GMs to miss on some trades and signings, and we're not even sure he missed on that deal, yet.

 

That doesn't stop me from scratching my head and expressing a different opinion, when I have one.

 

Overall, I really like the direction we are going and Bloom's ability to spot gems like Whitlock, Renfro (Yes, he spotted him to begin with), Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Schreiber (so far), Kike and rentals like Schwarber, Iggy and to a lesser extent Shaw & Robles. I also think the Story signing will end up being a net plus, despite my initial hesitancy, once the named him the 2Bman.

[moonslav59]

The mistake was going into the season with two losers in right field: Bradley and Arroyo, along with the same old issues at 1b. If the Red Sox wanted to trade Renfroe, fine, trade him, but don't trade him for garbage like Jackie Bradley. Get a prospect for Renfroe and figure out another plan for RF other than the clown show of Bradley and Arroyo.

 

The "same old issue" at 1B had an .819 OPS with 33 HRs in 545 PAs with the Sox going into 2022.

 

The guy we traded, Renfroe, had an .815 OPS with 31 HRs in 572 PAs with BOS before being traded going into 2022.

 

Okay, Bloom may have guessed wrongly, but it's not like it was such a clear choice.

[mvp 78]

Let's not forget the 40 man roster we had in 2020 cannot really be blamed on Bloom, and as reminder, here is a list of some of the players that played a significant amount of time in that short season:

 

Rank in PAs in '20:

5. JBJ

7. Chavis

8. Pillar

9. Peraza

10, Dalbec

11. Plawecki

12. Arauz (more than 1/3 the PAs as Bogey)

14. Lin

17. Munoz (1/5 the PAs as Verdugo)

 

Rank in IP

1. Perez (Bloom's highest paid FA)

3. Weber

4. Valdez

5. Mazza

6. Godley

7. Brewer

8. Brasier

10. Springs

11. Brice

13. Osich

14. Covey (about 30% of the IP as Eovaldi)

15. Kickham (same as Covey)

16. Stock

17. Walden

18. Hart (almost 20% of the IP Eovaldi had)

20. Hembree

21-.30 Hall, Triggs, Leyer, Tapia (com bined for more than 50% of Eovaldi)

 

Think about just how bad things were in Bloom's first year. He's made some mistakes on the way, most on low cost contracts, but the roster and farm have come a long way in about 2 years.

 

 

 

 

Why can't you blame the bottom half of that roster on Bloom? He grabbed those guys?

[Bellhorn04]

Why can't you blame the bottom half of that roster on Bloom? He grabbed those guys?

 

Because he had virtually no money to work with? That tends to limit you to the scrap heap.

[moonslav59]

Why can't you blame the bottom half of that roster on Bloom? He grabbed those guys?

 

I did expect he'd do better finding "Gems in the rough," as that was supposed to be his strength, but the guy had a tiny spending budget and 20 holes to fill, and his biggest emphasis was building the farm and by the end of 2020 and the start of 2021 he DID greatly improve the bottom of the roster.

 

Expecting a miracle in just a half season, within the context of what he took over and the budget he had was unrealistic. He was staring at a cliff. I know you hated that word from day one, but call it whatever you wish. He had a nice foundation of 6-8 players and very little else. With no budget to spend, did you really expect much better in 2020?

Edited June 8, 2022 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

Because he had virtually no money to work with? That tends to limit you to the scrap heap.

 

Maybe? But that pitching staff was a complete disaster. Just embarrassing from top to bottom. Yes, Sale AND ERod were hurt with no AAA pitching that could help.

 

Maybe he could have tried Mata? Gone to Houck sooner?

 

If he dealt Beni prior to 2020, he probably could have got a pretty substantial haul.

[mvp 78]

I did expect he'd do better finding "Gem in the rough," as that was supposed to be his strength, but the guy had a tiny spending budget and 20 holes to fill, and his biggest emphasis was building the farm and by the end of 2020 and the start of 2021 he DID greatly improve the bottom of the roster.

 

Expecting a miracle in just a half season, within the context of what he took over and the budget he had was unrealistic. He was staring at a cliff. I know you hated that word from day one, but call it whatever you wish. He had a nice foundation of 6-8 players and very little else. With no budget to spend, did you really expect much better in 2020?

 

Nobody expected a miracle. The turd that was provided wasn't even polished.

[Bellhorn04]

Nobody expected a miracle. The turd that was provided wasn't even polished.

 

60 games. And they were turning it around toward the end of them!

[mvp 78]

60 games. And they were turning it around toward the end of them!

 

The longest 60 games of my life. It somehow turned me into a Chris Mazza truther. I don't want to go back there.

[Bellhorn04]

The longest 60 games of my life. It somehow turned me into a Chris Mazza truther. I don't want to go back there.

 

2020 was definitely a year to forget, in many ways.

[notin]

The mistake was going into the season with two losers in right field: Bradley and Arroyo, along with the same old issues at 1b. If the Red Sox wanted to trade Renfroe, fine, trade him, but don't trade him for garbage like Jackie Bradley. Get a prospect for Renfroe and figure out another plan for RF other than the clown show of Bradley and Arroyo.

 

 

They did get a prospect for Renfroe. Two, in fact.

 

And Bradley is hardly the problem with this team….

[Bellhorn04]

They did get a prospect for Renfroe. Two, in fact.

 

And Bradley is hardly the problem with this team….

 

Bradley's bWAR inched up from 0.5 to 0.6 with his hit last night.

 

Hard to believe some people don't see the fun in WAR.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

They did get a prospect for Renfroe. Two, in fact.

 

And Bradley is hardly the problem with this team….

 

Calling perhaps the best defensive outfielder in MLB garbage is pretty asinine.

[mvp 78]

Calling perhaps the best defensive outfielder in MLB garbage is pretty asinine.

 

He's had a resurgent year, that's for sure. I can't outright say he's the best though. I think he's definitely a better fit in RF than in CF at this point in his career.

[moonslav59]

2020 was definitely a year to forget, in many ways.

 

People who blame Bloom for 2020 really don't understand the concept of context.

 

They see Bogey, Devers, Nate, and Sale and think, it's easy building up the rest of the roster on peanuts and with no high value prospects to trade, even if it was the right time to do so. (It wasn't.)

[mvp 78]

People who blame Bloom for 2020 really don't understand the concept of context.

 

They see Bogey, Devers, Nate, and Sale and think, it's easy building up the rest of the roster on peanuts and with no high value prospects to trade, even if it was the right time to do so. (It wasn't.)

 

Who said it was easy? It's not easy. The transaction wire from 2020 was an embarrassment though.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

He's had a resurgent year, that's for sure. I can't outright say he's the best though. I think he's definitely a better fit in RF than in CF at this point in his career.

 

I did post the word 'perhaps.' Btw, not that it matters because the SOX won, I believe JBJ catches that HR Trout hit last night.

[Old Red]

I did post the word 'perhaps.' Btw, not that it matters because the SOX won, I believe JBJ catches that HR Trout hit last night.

 

I believe he catches the ball before that too.

[moonslav59]

Who said it was easy? It's not easy. The transaction wire from 2020 was an embarrassment though.

 

Huh?

 

We traded scraps that amounted to crap in 2020 and beyond for...

 

Pivetta

Seabold

Wallace

Rosario

Potts

Z Bryant

 

Did you expect more for Moreland, Pillar, Workman and Hembree?

[moonslav59]

Who said it was easy? It's not easy. The transaction wire from 2020 was an embarrassment though.

 

Okay, maybe not "easy," but you expected mush better with that budget and tradeable resources?

[mvp 78]

Okay, maybe not "easy," but you expected mush better with that budget and tradeable resources?

 

I expected a team that could have been competitive rather than embarrassing. I'll take Mayer out of the deal in retrospect, but sheesh.

[mvp 78]

Huh?

 

We traded scraps that amounted to crap in 2020 and beyond for...

 

Pivetta

Seabold

Wallace

Rosario

Potts

Z Bryant

 

Did you expect more for Moreland, Pillar, Workman and Hembree?

 

So Pivetta, who nobody thought much of and not a whole lot else then.

[Old Red]

I expected a team that could have been competitive rather than embarrassing. I'll take Mayer out of the deal in retrospect, but sheesh.

 

Do you think Bloom would have taken Mayer if the Red Sox had the first pick?