Sox extend Whitlock

[Bellhorn04]

Baseball could reach the point where the bullpen is more important than the starting rotation.

 

Yes, at some point those terms might disappear, and it's just called a pitching staff, period.

[notin]

Yes, at some point those terms might disappear, and it's just called a pitching staff, period.

 

Like back in the early 1900’s.

 

Everything old is new again..

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Like back in the early 1900’s.

 

Everything old is new again..

 

In that case, can I have my old back back?

[Bellhorn04]

In that case, can I have my old back back?

 

Heh. No, some things just get older.

[Kimmi]

Baseball could reach the point where the bullpen is more important than the starting rotation.

 

Things are trending this way, and I don't like it one bit. The analytics are most definitely correct about not letting your starter go through the line up a 3rd time, but I still don't like it.

[Bellhorn04]

Things are trending this way, and I don't like it one bit. The analytics are most definitely correct about not letting your starter go through the line up a 3rd time, but I still don't like it.

 

Like everything else in the modern game, I'm learning to accept it. My opinion won't change a thing. It's still a great game, fortunately, they can't really screw it up no matter what.

[Kimmi]

Like everything else in the modern game, I'm learning to accept it. My opinion won't change a thing. It's still a great game, fortunately, they can't really screw it up no matter what.

 

I guess we have no choice but to accept it. You're right, it's still a great game. While I prefer a starting pitcher being able to go 7+ innings, there's still a lot of beauty in someone like Whitlock pitching 4 great innings out of the pen. And a lot of beauty in watching a manager put his relievers into situations where they'll be the most successful.

[sk7326]

I guess we have no choice but to accept it. You're right, it's still a great game. While I prefer a starting pitcher being able to go 7+ innings, there's still a lot of beauty in someone like Whitlock pitching 4 great innings out of the pen. And a lot of beauty in watching a manager put his relievers into situations where they'll be the most successful.

 

That said, one of the effects could also be the evolution of more people like Whitlock - who could be true 100 inning relievers, which itself is kind of old school.

[moonslav59]

That said, one of the effects could also be the evolution of more people like Whitlock - who could be true 100 inning relievers, which itself is kind of old school.

 

Could we see a day where staffs have ten 3-5 inning guys and three one inning guys?

[Nick]

Could we see a day where staffs have ten 3-5 inning guys and three one inning guys?

 

Most definitely. Then you won't need a $30M/year starter, not even close.

 

You'll also need couple of guys on strict 'cleaner' roles. Guys that can come in and just pitch to eat innings where games are lost.

[moonslav59]

Most definitely. Then you won't need a $30M/year starter, not even close.

 

You'll also need couple of guys on strict 'cleaner' roles. Guys that can come in and just pitch to eat innings where games are lost.

 

That might be your worst 3-5 inning guys, but the days of rest availability might get tricky, if someone is shelled, early. Might need a 14 man staff.

[sk7326]

Could we see a day where staffs have ten 3-5 inning guys and three one inning guys?

 

If pitching staffs are going to allow for anti-public health cranks, it seems inevitable.

[Behindenemylines]

As long as he stays healthy it is great deal! His role on the Sox is evolving.

[moonslav59]

Time to extend Devers and others.

[Bellhorn04]

Time to extend Devers and others.

 

Which others?

[notin]

Which others?

 

Houck? Verdugo?

[mvp 78]

which others?

 

jbj

[moonslav59]

Houck? Verdugo?

 

I was thinking Houck and maybe Kike or Pivetta, but Verdugo, too.

[Kimmi]

That said, one of the effects could also be the evolution of more people like Whitlock - who could be true 100 inning relievers, which itself is kind of old school.

 

Absolutely.

 

Even though I have always felt starters are more valuable than relievers, and Whitlock looked great in his start against the Rays, it's really nice to a guy like Whitlock in the pen. I'd certainly rather have him pitch 3-4 innings to close out a game in which we have a lead then have him start a game, only to have it lost in late innings.

[moonslav59]

Absolutely.

 

Even though I have always felt starters are more valuable than relievers, and Whitlock looked great in his start against the Rays, it's really nice to a guy like Whitlock in the pen. I'd certainly rather have him pitch 3-4 innings to close out a game in which we have a lead then have him start a game, only to have it lost in late innings.

 

Great point, but the risk is, what if we go 8 games in a row where we are ahead or behind by 5 runs?

[mvp 78]

Absolutely.

 

Even though I have always felt starters are more valuable than relievers, and Whitlock looked great in his start against the Rays, it's really nice to a guy like Whitlock in the pen. I'd certainly rather have him pitch 3-4 innings to close out a game in which we have a lead then have him start a game, only to have it lost in late innings.

 

I'd rather have Whitlock start a game and give them a chance rather then see him languish in the pen as the Sox fall behind early.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'd rather have Whitlock start a game and give them a chance rather then see him languish in the pen as the Sox fall behind early.

 

... and every inning they actually let him pitch (like past the 4th) gives the Sox a better pitcher than anyone in the bullpen.

[mvp 78]

... and every inning they actually let him pitch (like past the 4th) gives the Sox a better pitcher than anyone in the bullpen.

 

Yup. I think he could get to 6 innings by midseason for sure.

[moonslav59]

Yup. I think he could get to 6 innings by midseason for sure.

 

Agreed, and with his next appearance, he may move to 3rd in total IP'd by Sox pitchers.

 

(He's currently 5th- just 2/3 behind Wacha and 2 IP behind Houck.)

[mvp 78]

Agreed, and with his next appearance, he may move to 3rd in total IP'd by Sox pitchers.

 

(He's currently 5th- just 2/3 behind Wacha and 2 IP behind Houck.)

 

With how MLB is going, it wouldn't be surprising to have some bullpen guys start to get 6-7 innings a week and have seasons of 150 IP. Instead of throwing 6 once a turn in the rotation, they'd be throwing 3 innings twice. Would that save some arms?

[mvp 78]

Chad Green led all relievers with 83.2 IP last year.

 

Eichhorn in 1986 pitched 150 innings with no GS.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/mark-eichhorn/1003712/game-log?position=P&gds=&gde=&type=0&season=1986

[Bellhorn04]

With how MLB is going, it wouldn't be surprising to have some bullpen guys start to get 6-7 innings a week and have seasons of 150 IP. Instead of throwing 6 once a turn in the rotation, they'd be throwing 3 innings twice. Would that save some arms?

 

150 IP of relief might be asking too much. The days of rest between outings would be hard to manage.

[moonslav59]

With how MLB is going, it wouldn't be surprising to have some bullpen guys start to get 6-7 innings a week and have seasons of 150 IP. Instead of throwing 6 once a turn in the rotation, they'd be throwing 3 innings twice. Would that save some arms?

 

It's hard to know. Maybe with some pitchers, it would work well, but others, used to the routines of every 5th day pitching, maybe not.

 

Starters do have a "throwing day" between starts, so maybe the adjustment might not be so unsettling.

 

Would throwing 3-4 innings every 3rd day vs 5-6 IP every 5th day be the trend of the future?

 

Over a 15 day/game period the 3rd day guy might pitch 17-18 innings (5 x 3.2 IP), while the every 5 day guy might pitch 17-18 IP (3 x 5.2), too.

[Bellhorn04]

Would throwing 3-4 innings every 3rd day vs 5-6 IP every 5th day be the trend of the future?

 

Nope, can't be done. Arms would fall off quickly.

[moonslav59]

150 IP of relief might be asking too much. The days of rest between outings would be hard to manage.

 

One problem might be, if it was Whitlock's "day to pitch," but we were up by 8 or down by 8. It would be a waste to pitch him, but not pitching him would upset the routine and force him to pitch less over a full season, assuming this happens multiple times.