Best Red Sox SS of All Time

[Bellhorn04]

That must have been cool watching a Hall of Fame DP combo on a team that literally won the pennant on pitching and D.

 

As a disappointed 13-year old Red Sox fan, I only remember Aparicio for starting his Boston days in an 0-for-45 slump and then wiping out rounding third on what should've been an RBI-triple by Yaz in a big '72 showdown vs. Detroit.

 

It's incredible the way we remember things like Aparicio's fall. I was listening to that game on the radio.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's incredible the way we remember things like Aparicio's fall. I was listening to that game on the radio.

 

Right? I wasn't even a bitter fan yet...

 

I looked him up: voted starting All-Star shortstop by the fans in '71 and '72 (ok, name recognition maybe)... but Aparicio also got MVP votes from the writers in '72, behind only Fisk and Tiant among Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

Right? I wasn't even a bitter fan yet...

 

I looked him up: voted starting All-Star shortstop by the fans in '71 and '72 (ok, name recognition maybe)... but Aparicio also got MVP votes from the writers in '72, behind only Fisk and Tiant among Red Sox.

 

He was a great fielder- back before metrics.

[cp176]

That must have been cool watching a Hall of Fame DP combo on a team that literally won the pennant on pitching and D.

 

As a disappointed 13-year old Red Sox fan, I only remember Aparicio for starting his Boston days in an 0-for-45 slump and then wiping out rounding third on what should've been an RBI-triple by Yaz in a big '72 showdown vs. Detroit.

 

I remember that 72 season. it was cool to have a chance to see some of the greats who played the game in different times.

[moonslav59]

I remember that 72 season. it was cool to have a chance to see some of the greats who played the game in different times.

 

That 72 season was my first, as a Sox fan. I remember it well.

 

40 years!

[Bellhorn04]

That 72 season was my first, as a Sox fan. I remember it well.

 

40 years!

 

72 wasn't my first Sox season, but it was my first Sox heartbreaker.

[moonslav59]

72 wasn't my first Sox season, but it was my first Sox heartbreaker.

 

The first of many to come, unfortunately.

 

2004 was so overdue!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

72 wasn't my first Sox season, but it was my first Sox heartbreaker.

 

Mine too, but '74 was worse. In first place all summer, by as much as 7 games in late August. Then we went back to school all excited and September was like, What the Hell?

[moonslav59]

Mine too, but '74 was worse. In first place all summer, by as much as 7 games in late August. Then we went back to school all excited and September was like, What the Hell?

 

That was hell, as was '78, but losing the season by a half game was unprecedented and extremely heartbreaking.

[mvp 78]

Those don't compare with being 9 years old in October 1986. Pain.

[Bellhorn04]

Mine too, but '74 was worse. In first place all summer, by as much as 7 games in late August. Then we went back to school all excited and September was like, What the Hell?

 

74 was my first trip to Fenway, right in the middle of the slide.

[jad]

I kinda lost touch with them from 1967 (WS loss) to 1975 (another one) so I missed that. Do not speak to me of Yaz's pop-up, nor of 1986, nor of the dozen straight Postseason losses after that ...

[cp176]

I still loved those early 60's teams. In 1966, we really could see that something new and fresh was coming our way. It was great baseball. The current number of teams and the likewise number that make the playoffs makes me believe that we would have had numerous other chances with some of those early 70's teams if the format had been different.

[moonslav59]

I still loved those early 60's teams. In 1966, we really could see that something new and fresh was coming our way. It was great baseball. The current number of teams and the likewise number that make the playoffs makes me believe that we would have had numerous other chances with some of those early 70's teams if the format had been different.

 

Nice post.

 

Things might have been different had we just kept our core together. The Fisk fiasco was totally uncalled for and insane.

 

Trading Lynn, Burly, Carbo, Smith, Scott, Cooper, Lee and others and letting guys like Tiant walk really ruined the whole decade.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Nice post.

 

Things might have been different had we just kept our core together. The Fisk fiasco was totally uncalled for and insane.

 

Trading Lynn, Burly, Carbo, Smith, Scott, Cooper, Lee and others and letting guys like Tiant walk really ruined the whole decade.

 

Come on, everyone knows it was Nixon.

 

Students of the Seventies still bemoan the Sox' lack of a back-up catcher with a negative dWAR like Russ Nixon from the previous decade.

[cp176]

Come on, everyone knows it was Nixon.

 

Students of the Seventies still bemoan the Sox' lack of a back-up catcher with a negative dWAR like Russ Nixon from the previous decade.

 

Bob Tilman and Rus Nixon.

[cp176]

Nice post.

 

Things might have been different had we just kept our core together. The Fisk fiasco was totally uncalled for and insane.

 

Trading Lynn, Burly, Carbo, Smith, Scott, Cooper, Lee and others and letting guys like Tiant walk really ruined the whole decade.

 

That was a sad time for me.

[moonslav59]

That was a sad time for me.

 

To develop such a great core of young players and add a classy guy like Tiant was such a great thing to do, then the GM (and owner) destroyed it all.

[jad]

Not sure how folks can bemoan the loss of core players like that but still support getting rid of current (or near-current!) players whose salaries or d- or f-WAR (or whatever the f. it is that no human can explain in plain language) or speculative upside or downside isn't what a fantasy-sports-owners would prefer.

[Bellhorn04]

Not sure how folks can bemoan the loss of core players like that but still support getting rid of current (or near-current!) players whose salaries or d- or f-WAR (or whatever the f. it is that no human can explain in plain language) or speculative upside or downside isn't what a fantasy-sports-owners would prefer.

 

Times do change.

 

Back then guys were getting deals in the hundreds of thousands. Now they get deals in the hundreds of millions.

[moonslav59]

Not sure how folks can bemoan the loss of core players like that but still support getting rid of current (or near-current!) players whose salaries or d- or f-WAR (or whatever the f. it is that no human can explain in plain language) or speculative upside or downside isn't what a fantasy-sports-owners would prefer.

 

We got nothing for Fisk. We mailed his contract a day late.

 

We did get back good talent in many of the trades we made, but that winning team was dismantled and replaced by teams that did not really compete from 10980 to 1985.

 

Sure, we sucked for a year after trading Betts, but the future looks bright. It did not back then.

[mvp 78]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-fangraphs-war-fielding-update/

 

FanGraphs just changed their fielding WAR calculation retro to 2016.

 

Xander woke up today and somehow lost 3.2 fWAR.

[moonslav59]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-fangraphs-war-fielding-update/

 

FanGraphs just changed their fielding WAR calculation retro to 2016.

 

Xander woke up today and somehow lost 3.2 fWAR.

 

On defense?

[mvp 78]

On defense?

 

Overall.

[moonslav59]

Overall.

 

Let me rephrase...

 

Was the major part of the overall loss on defense?

[mvp 78]

Let me rephrase...

 

Was the major part of the overall loss on defense?

 

"FanGraphs changed the fielding WAR calculation retro to 2016."

[moonslav59]

"FanGraphs changed the fielding WAR calculation retro to 2016."

 

That's what I was guessing it would have to be.

[cp176]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-fangraphs-war-fielding-update/

 

FanGraphs just changed their fielding WAR calculation retro to 2016.

 

Xander woke up today and somehow lost 3.2 fWAR.

 

hmmm - so does that make him a much poorer shortstop than he was yesterday?

[mvp 78]

hmmm - so does that make him a much poorer shortstop than he was yesterday?

 

It should just be a reminder that solely using bWAR or fWAR isn't a way to judge players. You can't just rely on one stat, especially one that is so complicated that it is close to being convoluted. Remember that one of the things the owners were proposing was compensation based on WAR. Pretty scary that a guy can lose 10% of his WAR just because they wanted to adjust their calculation, which only goes back to 2016. There is no way to adjust any year prior to that.

[notin]

It should just be a reminder that solely using bWAR or fWAR isn't a way to judge players. You can't just rely on one stat, especially one that is so complicated that it is close to being convoluted. Remember that one of the things the owners were proposing was compensation based on WAR. Pretty scary that a guy can lose 10% of his WAR just because they wanted to adjust their calculation, which only goes back to 2016. There is no way to adjust any year prior to that.

 

That whole proposal was just stupid. I like what the folks at Fangraphs do, but a big reason they have any reliability is they’re completely impartial. Giving them leverage over financials opens way too many doors best left closed. And boarded up.

 

 

 

And then burned to the ground…