Will there be a 2022 season?

[notin]

Rob Manfred is not a strong commissioner . And he is no baseball man. He is a pencil neck geek. He is just a puppet for the owners. He is not even a good puppet. Knucklehead Smiff was a smarter puppet. This whole thing is disgusting.

 

Absolutely Manfred is a puppet. And not a very good one. His speech about the state of baseball revenues suffering “over the last 5 years” due to the pandemic was ridiculous on multiple fronts. Not only was only one season affected, MLBs revenue grew over the previous 4 season to a record $10billion in 2019 while the aggregate payroll of the players was actually shrinking…

[jad]

My questions: small market teams are obviously delighted--they can put out a crappy product and the worse it is, the more pure profits they get from big market teams, profits they don't even have to invest. Don't the big market teams eventually get p.o.'ed at this? And if so, what can they do? Or are they like NCAA D-1 teams: you don't want competitive balance; you're happy to pay crappy teams to come in so that you can build up your record and shellack them in front of a sold out stadium. And maybe you accountants can help with this: at what point does the lock-out really hurt owners? or are they figuring they can just manipulate these paper losses into massive tax breaks?

[dgalehouse]

Absolutely Manfred is a puppet. And not a very good one. His speech about the state of baseball revenues suffering “over the last 5 years” due to the pandemic was ridiculous on multiple fronts. Not only was only one season affected, MLBs revenue grew over the previous 4 season to a record $10billion in 2019 while the aggregate payroll of the players was actually shrinking…

 

The man does not speak the same language as the average fan. He is doing harm to the game at a time when it is having trouble attracting young fans , while facing ever increasing competition for the entertainment dollar. He is actually hurting the sport that he is supposed to be leading.

[mvp 78]

I don’t care if the owners only care about money. (What business owner doesn’t?), but if that’s the case get your product together so you can make some. If they want to save money, learn to say “no” once in a while. No one put a gun to Chris Young’s head and said “Give Corey Seager $325 million or else!” Sign the CBA and live with the repercussions of being cheap. I’m fine with that. But don’t line yourself up with a $220 million dollar payroll and then tell the players “you need to stop me from doing this!”

 

Yes, the CBT could go up higher than they'd like in the short term if the conceded more to the players, but they run the risk of turning off many fair weather fans that will find something else to do with their time/money going forward.

[mvp 78]

Rob Manfred is not a strong commissioner . And he is no baseball man. He is a pencil neck geek. He is just a puppet for the owners. He is not even a good puppet. Knucklehead Smiff was a smarter puppet. This whole thing is disgusting.

 

He takes the bullets for small market owners. He's doing exactly what they want.

[mvp 78]

My questions: small market teams are obviously delighted--they can put out a crappy product and the worse it is, the more pure profits they get from big market teams, profits they don't even have to invest. Don't the big market teams eventually get p.o.'ed at this? And if so, what can they do? Or are they like NCAA D-1 teams: you don't want competitive balance; you're happy to pay crappy teams to come in so that you can build up your record and shellack them in front of a sold out stadium. And maybe you accountants can help with this: at what point does the lock-out really hurt owners? or are they figuring they can just manipulate these paper losses into massive tax breaks?

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why the vaunted "level headed" John Henry isn't putting a stop to this nonsense, unless he's ok with it.

[mvp 78]

The man does not speak the same language as the average fan. He is doing harm to the game at a time when it is having trouble attracting young fans , while facing ever increasing competition for the entertainment dollar. He is actually hurting the sport that he is supposed to be leading.

 

This comes from the top. The vast majority of owners don't understand what it means to be a fan. They'll sit in their luxury boxes and never have to even come into contact with the common rabble.

 

Who cares who wins? It's all about the investment!

[Old Red]

Yeah, I'm not sure why the vaunted "level headed" John Henry isn't putting a stop to this nonsense, unless he's ok with it.

 

Tony Mazz to the Red Sox booth? Way to go John Henry.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Old Red

[mvp 78]

Tony Mazz to the Red Sox booth? Way to go John Henry.

 

This news is honestly worse than the lockout. WTF?

 

1. Annoying voice.

2. Annoying personality.

3. Is overrated as a baseball guy.

 

If he's on, I'm putting the away team's feed on.

[Nick]

My questions: small market teams are obviously delighted--they can put out a crappy product and the worse it is, the more pure profits they get from big market teams, profits they don't even have to invest. Don't the big market teams eventually get p.o.'ed at this? And if so, what can they do? Or are they like NCAA D-1 teams: you don't want competitive balance; you're happy to pay crappy teams to come in so that you can build up your record and shellack them in front of a sold out stadium. And maybe you accountants can help with this: at what point does the lock-out really hurt owners? or are they figuring they can just manipulate these paper losses into massive tax breaks?

 

I'm not sure if I would use the phrase 'hurt'. But based on sheer numbers my initial thought is big revenue clubs such as Yankees would lose most in terms of 'lost opportunity'. Despite high payroll, some have estimated Yankees' gross revenue to approach close to $350M. The club may withstand it financially for lost season but they probably lose OPPORTUNITY to earn $50M. That would 'hurt' no matter how rich I am.

 

It may 'hurt' the Rays ownership more not to profit $10M. I'm just throwing out numbers.

 

Also someone mentioned what the lost season would do to 'value' of a club.

 

Most business takeovers I've been involved dealt with FUTURE free cash flow. I would guess that would be the case with baseball teams. So in example above, I would value the Yankees based on $50M annual free cash flow plus fair market value of hard assets. I doubt one partial season will diminish the value. As a seller, I'm asking you how much are you willing to pay me for a chance at earning $50M annual free cash flow? Obviously it's more complicated than that but an easy way to start thinking.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Nick

[Old Red]

This news is honestly worse than the lockout. WTF?

 

1. Annoying voice.

2. Annoying personality.

3. Is overrated as a baseball guy.

 

If he's on, I'm putting the away team's feed on.

 

Mazz would be a breath of fresh air compared to some of the hometown yuckers they have on there now. Let’s get this baseball thing settled now. Can’t wait.

[jad]

I'm not sure if I would use the phrase 'hurt'. But based on sheer numbers my initial thought is big revenue clubs such as Yankees would lose most in terms of 'lost opportunity'. Despite high payroll, some have estimated Yankees' gross revenue to approach close to $350M. The club may withstand it financially for lost season but they probably lose OPPORTUNITY to earn $50M. That would 'hurt' no matter how rich I am.

 

It may 'hurt' the Rays ownership more not to profit $10M. I'm just throwing out numbers.

 

Also someone mentioned what the lost season would do to 'value' of a club.

 

Most business takeovers I've been involved dealt with FUTURE free cash flow. I would guess that would be the case with baseball teams. So in example above, I would value the Yankees based on $50M annual free cash flow plus fair market value of hard assets. I doubt one partial season will diminish the value. As a seller, I'm asking you how much are you willing to pay me for a chance at earning $50M annual free cash flow? Obviously it's more complicated than that but an easy way to start thinking.

 

Thanks! So it sounds as if for the players to seriously threaten the value of a franchise, they not only have to sit this season out (or threaten that), but demonstrate a willingness to do it again!

[dgalehouse]

Dave O'Brien is not very good at baseball play by play. ( He definitely is better when doing football.) You need somebody with a little personality on commentary to offset O'Brien. Eck does not want to work full time. The guys they tried last year left something to be desired. It will be interesting to see what Millar can do with it.

[mvp 78]

Dave O'Brien is not very good at baseball play by play. ( He definitely is better when doing football.) You need somebody with a little personality on commentary to offset O'Brien. Eck does not want to work full time. The guys they tried last year left something to be desired. It will be interesting to see what Millar can do with it.

 

O'Brien is definitely a AAAA broadcaster, a dollar store Orsillo.

[mvp 78]

Mazz would be a breath of fresh air compared to some of the hometown yuckers they have on there now. Let’s get this baseball thing settled now. Can’t wait.

 

He has a very unpleasant voice. I'm also not so sure he'll be as critical on NESN as he is on the radio.

[Old Red]

Dave O'Brien is not very good at baseball play by play. ( He definitely is better when doing football.) You need somebody with a little personality on commentary to offset O'Brien. Eck does not want to work full time. The guys they tried last year left something to be desired. It will be interesting to see what Millar can do with it.

 

I grew up with Gowdy, Ned Martin, and Ken Coleman, and no OB is nothing close to them, or as good as Osillo for that matter. Millar should be better than Burks, or Lenny D, and Wake.

[Old Red]

He has a very unpleasant voice. I'm also not so sure he'll be as critical on NESN as he is on the radio.

 

I doubt he will, but he has bashed the Red Sox at times for years, so it will be very interesting to see how much Mazz will tone it down.

[Elktonnick]

He has a very unpleasant voice. I'm also not so sure he'll be as critical on NESN as he is on the radio.

 

Mazz is a horse's ass. I used to like his commentary but he has become a self righteous pompous ass. He is just like O'BRIEN just a bit more abrasive. I can not imagine a worse combination than these two.

[illinoisredsox]

You know who’s really going to be hurt? The bar and restaurant and souvenir stand owners near the ball parks. The servers, bartenders, cooks snd cashiers those owners employ. Those places have to make most of their money during the baseball season; they aren’t going to generate a lot of foot traffic at other times. Every missed home date is a big hit on their revenues and many are already hurting after the past two years.

[notin]

Tony Mazz to the Red Sox booth? Way to go John Henry.

 

Please God, no!

 

What is the logic here? Shaughnessy wasn’t available?

[Elktonnick]

You know who’s really going to be hurt? The bar and restaurant and souvenir stand owners near the ball parks. The servers, bartenders, cooks snd cashiers those owners employ. Those places have to make most of their money during the baseball season; they aren’t going to generate a lot of foot traffic at other times. Every missed home date is a big hit on their revenues and many are already hurting after the past two years.

That is why I say a Pox on both their houses. Owners and players both are getting rich. I have no sympathy for either.

[jad]

That is why I say a Pox on both their houses. Owners and players both are getting rich. I have no sympathy for either.

 

That's EXACTLY how Manfred hopes you feel.

[moonslav59]

Where does it say that I said that you called the players poor, and pitiful? Those are my words, and have said right along that with an average salary of 4+M the players are not poor,poor players, so you are WRONG that I said you did. I also said I agree with everything you said about the owners, and what other people have said about the owners too. Yes the players earn what they make, and the owners make much more, but where would each be without the other? I would be all for the players starting their own league, and paying all the expenses, and see how it goes. I also wouldn’t care if the players played, or not this season, because the greed does need to be checked on both sides. Soto turned down $300M+, because he wants more, and some owner will offer more. Filthy greed on both sides.

 

You clearly stated that you disagree with me on the players being “poor and pitiful,” which I never said or implied they were.

 

You answered my post and specifically said this is where you disagree with me. That implies you think I said or think the players are poor and deserving of pity.

[Elktonnick]

That's EXACTLY how Manfred hopes you feel.

Manfred is an awful commissioner but on the same token Clark is an awful union head. If you just want to hate the owners fine but pro baseball players do not have the skills nor talent to run a league by themselves just like John Henry and the owners can not play the game. Both sides need each other.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Elktonnick

[Old Red]

You clearly stated that you disagree with me on the players being “poor and pitiful,” which I never said or implied they were.

 

You answered my post and specifically said this is where you disagree with me. That implies you think I said or think the players are poor and deserving of pity.

 

Once again a day late, and a dollar short, and over analyze 101. I’ve already said that poor, poor, and pitiful we’re my words.

[Old Red]

Please God, no!

 

What is the logic here? Shaughnessy wasn’t available?

 

The fact that people on here are against Mazz makes it so much better. Once again credit to John Henry. Way to go John!

[Old Red]

That is why I say a Pox on both their houses. Owners and players both are getting rich. I have no sympathy for either.

 

That’s what I’ve been saying for weeks now. Both sides are greedy, and BOTH sides are at fault, and BOTH sides don’t give a damm about anyone else, but themselves.

[Elktonnick]

That’s what I’ve been saying for weeks now. Both sides are greedy, and BOTH sides are at fault, and BOTH sides don’t give a damm about anyone else, but themselves.

Amen!

[moonslav59]

Once again a day late, and a dollar short, and over analyze 101. I’ve already said that poor, poor, and pitiful we’re my words.

 

It's you that are a day late and 2 dollars short.

 

You said you agreed with everything I said, but where you "differ," which means you think I feel players are poor and pitiful, but you don't. Read what you wrote. The meaning is clear as day and not late or short on cash...

 

"Moon I agree with everything you have said about the owners, and along what others on here have said as well, but where I differ is on the poor, poor pitiful players, which I don’t believe they are. ....

[Old Red]

It's you that are a day late and 2 dollars short.

 

You said you agreed with everything I said, but where you "differ," which means you think I feel players are poor and pitiful, but you don't. Read what you wrote. The meaning is clear as day and not late or short on cash...

 

"Moon I agree with everything you have said about the owners, and along what others on here have said as well, but where I differ is on the poor, poor pitiful players, which I don’t believe they are. ....

 

And once again poor, poor, and pitiful is MY words, and how you want to interpret is your problem if you want to make it one. I don’t care either way. I blame both sides, and you don’t. I’m not saying my opinion is right, and you are wrong, but that is my opinion. Either way it doesn’t change a thing. Just because I don’t think the players are poor, poor, and pitiful doesn’t mean you did.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Old Red