Red Sox trade Hunter Renfroe in trade involving Jackie Bradley Jr

[moonslav59]

Having first round draft picks at 20 or lower makes it hard.

 

Here is a closer look:

2012

#37 Pat Light for the great Abad.

#151 Ty Buttrey for Ian Kinsler

2013

#143 Corey Littrell was part of the Lackey for the great Joe Kelly deal.

#323 Carlos Asuage was part of the Kimbrel trade

2014

#26 Michael Chavis (should have traded Duran not Chavis)

#33 Michael Kopech was big part of Sale trade

#374 Jalen Beeks was traded for big Nate

2015

#7 Beni was traded of Wink, Franchy & 3 other

#231 Logan Allen (Part of Kimbrel trade)

2016

#12 Jay Groome traded for Hosmer & 2 prospects

#51 CJ Chatham traded for Santos

#88 Shaun Anderson traded w GSantos for Nunez

#118 Dalbec was the steal of the 4th round... lol

#178 Stephen Nogosek was included in the trade for Addison Reed

2017

#24 Tanner Houck

#131 Jake Thompson

#221 Tyler Esplin

#491 Kutter Crawford

2018

#26 Triston Casas

#100 Durbin Feltman

#130 Kole Cottam

#160 T Ward

#190 Devlin Granberg

#220 Jarren Duran

#340 N Northcut

2019

#69 Matthew Lugo

#137 Noah Song

#797 Brandon Walter

2020

#17 Nick Yorke

#89 Blaze Jordan

#148 Shane Drohan

2021

#4 Marcelo Mayer

#136 Nathan Hickey

#316 Niko Kavadas

#556 Tyler Uberstine

2022

#24 Mikey Romero

#41 Cutter Coffey

#79 Roman Anthony

Edited August 20, 2022 by moonslav59

[cp176]

Useless to you, maybe, because you want to avoid headaches, but to others the 4 stats you choose create headaches of their own, as no stat is perfect or a true reflection of the whole value of a player. Is one of your 4 stats- chosen a fielding one? If not, isn't that missing a significant part of a player's true or comparative value? I don't mean to give you a headache over this, but even errors are scored by a human just like the UZR/150 observers and DRS metric nerds are doing, but in a more in-depth manner.

 

BA & HRs are park influenced, strength of opponent influenced and more. RBIs are largely a product or how many runners were on base or in scoring position for one guy vs another. Sometimes, those factor disparities are great. Does it give you a headache trying to make those adjustments in your head, or do you just count Ruths HRs in left-friendly Yankees Stadium exactly the same as Williams'?

 

What? I was being humorous. For the record, because I am not a fan of an overdosing deluge of information doesn't mean I am opposed to someone who thinks otherwise. I wonder how many of our ml ballplayers constantly check and worry about their metrics?Once again, this debate simply amuses me. I have no pony in the game.

[Bellhorn04]

Right now the Sox farm has Houck, Dalbec and Crawford as draft picks. But also players like Moncada, Kopech, Presley, Espinal, Montas, etc who (not all draft picks) are helping other clubs. Most were dealt to help a then-current Sox team be more successful, participants with the last two titles…

 

I honestly don't think Moncada should count. He cost them $63 million.

 

As for the others, which one has the highest career WAR?

[moonslav59]

What? I was being humorous. For the record, because I am not a fan of an overdosing deluge of information doesn't mean I am opposed to someone who thinks otherwise. I wonder how many of our ml ballplayers constantly check and worry about their metrics?Once again, this debate simply amuses me. I have no pony in the game.

 

I don't know of a debate about players checking their metrics or not.

 

It's amusing to me that you think there is one.

[moonslav59]

I honestly don't think Moncada should count. He cost them $63 million.

 

As for the others, which one has the highest career WAR?

 

Do we count prospects we obtained via trade, minor league free agency (even if they have some ML experience) or Rule 5?

 

Then, there is the IFA's, who most count as prospects, even if they cost $63M. (I think they counted Dice-K as a prospect/rookie, too.)

 

IFA

2009

Bogey

Iggy

Montas

2010

Aro

2011

Margot

2012

2 x Basabe (traded for Sale and Brad Ziegler)

J Guerra (part of Kimbrel trade)

Bautista (part of A Reed trade)

2013-2014

Devers

DHern

2014-2015

Moncada (main piece in Sale trade)

Espinoza for Pomeranz

Castillo

Bazardo

2015-2016

Mata

2016-2017

H Velazquez

2017-2018

Bello

Rafaela

Jimenez

2018-2019

WGonzalez

Paulino

Bonaci

2019-2020

Perales

2021

Bleis

 

Current Rule 5 & Trades

Whitlock

German

Seabold

EValdez

Ort

CWong

RHernandez

WAbreu

Binelas

Almonte

Wallace

Koss

Ferguson

Rosier

Downs

Hamilton

Potts

 

Minor League FA signings/Waivers

Brasier

Arroyo

Schreiber

Refsnyder

Danish

 

I'm sure I left some names off this list.

[Bellhorn04]

Do we count prospects we obtained via trade, minor league free agency (even if they have some ML experience) or Rule 5?

 

I was only talking about our domestic drafts and international signings since 2011.

 

Devers of course was an international signing in 2013.

[moonslav59]

I was only talking about our domestic drafts and international signings since 2011.

 

Devers of course was an international signing in 2013.

 

...and Margot & Bello

 

Has been a pretty weak farm since 2011, though.

 

11 years and only Devers, Houk, Dalbec, Crawford, Bello and then Moncada, Kopech, Montas, Margot, Espinal, Beeks, Buttrey and scraps.

 

I suppose that's Bloom's fault, too.

Edited August 21, 2022 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

...and Margot & Bello

 

Has been a pretty weak farm since 2011, though.

 

11 years and only Devers, Houk, Dalbec, Crawford, Bello and then Moncada, Kopech, Montas, Margot, Espinal, Beeks, Buttrey and scraps.

 

I suppose that's Bloom's fault, too.

I wasn’t going to say that, but if you insist I’ll agree with you It Must Be Bloom’s Fault!

[cp176]

I don't know of a debate about players checking their metrics or not.

 

It's amusing to me that you think there is one.

 

once again - what? You think that my comment related in some way to players involved in a debate about the use of metrics?

[Bellhorn04]

once again - what? You think that my comment related in some way to players involved in a debate about the use of metrics?

 

You're always being misunderstood, cp.

 

I'm just messing around. That's actually what I'm doing about half the time in these arguments we all get tangled up in...

[cp176]

You're always being misunderstood, cp.

 

I'm just messing around. That's actually what I'm doing about half the time in these arguments we all get tangled up in...

 

Me as well. I have a great friend who refers to me as Eddie as in Eddie Haskell! I don't tend to take myself seriously most of the time.

[moonslav59]

once again - what? You think that my comment related in some way to players involved in a debate about the use of metrics?

 

Just commenting on your wonderings.

[notin]

Me as well. I have a great friend who refers to me as Eddie as in Eddie Haskell! I don't tend to take myself seriously most of the time.

 

Eddie Haskell??

 

You need younger friends!!

[cp176]

Eddie Haskell??

 

You need younger friends!!

 

I'm the youngest old guy that my younger friends know so i've been told.

[Old Red]

JBJ in town tonight. Hope he gets a Standing O. I know Bloom will be standing.

[Old Red]

JBJ in the lineup tonight. What are the chances he robs someone of a hit tonight?

[redsoxrules]

You know your pitching is bad when you allow JBJ to get 2 hits in a game.

And JBJ is not robbing a lot of hits anymore. His arm is not the same either. He's been trying all year long to throw out runners but can't do it

[moonslav59]

You know your pitching is bad when you allow JBJ to get 2 hits in a game.

And JBJ is not robbing a lot of hits anymore. His arm is not the same either. He's been trying all year long to throw out runners but can't do it

 

You know your pitching is bad when McGuire looks better than anyone else, last night.

[jad]

You know your pitching is bad when McGuire looks better than anyone else, last night.

 

I would not want to have been the umpire checking his hands.

[moonslav59]

I would not want to have been the umpire checking his hands.

 

Post of the Month!

[Bellhorn04]

Renfroe now has an OPS+ of 129. So much for the regression thing.

[Old Red]

Renfroe now has an OPS+ of 129. So much for the regression thing.

 

And some on here were so worried that while he’s was worth $3M he would not be worth $7M, and he wouldn’t be able to duplicate, or come close to his numbers from last year. Also that JBJ would be better than he was last year. JBJ didn’t hit 160, but still sucked with the bat.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And some on here were so worried that while he’s was worth $3M he would not be worth $7M, and he wouldn’t be able to duplicate, or come close to his numbers from last year. Also that JBJ would be better than he was last year. JBJ didn’t hit 160, but still sucked with the bat.

 

I seriously doubt Red Sox Nation cares or even thinks about the team paying a starting outfielder a whole $3 million less than what was wasted on Garrett Richards last year. Even if it's two or three posters who post daily about the budget the budget the budget -- the rest of us could care less if Chaim Bloom is "allowed" to spend $40 million or $400 million... it's who he spends it on, and how those players perform that matters.

[mvp 78]

Renfroe now has an OPS+ of 129. So much for the regression thing.

 

Positive regression

[Old Red]

I seriously doubt Red Sox Nation cares or even thinks about the team paying a starting outfielder a whole $3 million less than what was wasted on Garrett Richards last year. Even if it's two or three posters who post daily about the budget the budget the budget -- the rest of us could care less if Chaim Bloom is "allowed" to spend $40 million or $400 million... it's who he spends it on, and how those players perform that matters.

 

Agree 100%. I don’t like $300M+ contracts, but on the other hand I could care less if JH had to shell out $500M for payroll. I don’t know why some worry about JH money. I sure JH doesn’t worry when any fan shells out big money for a ticket.

[Hugh2]

I seriously doubt Red Sox Nation cares or even thinks about the team paying a starting outfielder a whole $3 million less than what was wasted on Garrett Richards last year. Even if it's two or three posters who post daily about the budget the budget the budget -- the rest of us could care less if Chaim Bloom is "allowed" to spend $40 million or $400 million... it's who he spends it on, and how those players perform that matters.

 

Yeah, I don't remember ever thinking Renfroe wasn't going to be worth the money, I was skeptical he could duplicate a career year but I didn't think he was going to be bad. There seems to be some revisionist history going on there. But people keep on talking about Renfroe like he would have been the savior of this team. REALLY? he and his .825 OPS is good but not elite by any means. Especially for a corner outfielder. His value is tied to his power which is nice, but how many more games do we win with him on this team? 1-3 maybe. We're still out of the playoff race. It can both be true that Renfroe wasn't saving this team and it was a bad move to trade him though. Also, he's battled a few (minor) injuries this year, and will probably end up playing in about 37 less games this year.

 

I get it the Sox suck, and I suppose the natural response to that is to project that anger out into everything and every move. Leave no stone unturned!!! it's a good thing teams aren't run like that.

[Old Red]

Yeah, I don't remember ever thinking Renfroe wasn't going to be worth the money, I was skeptical he could duplicate a career year but I didn't think he was going to be bad. There seems to be some revisionist history going on there. But people keep on talking about Renfroe like he would have been the savior of this team. REALLY? he and his .825 OPS is good but not elite by any means. Especially for a corner outfielder. His value is tied to his power which is nice, but how many more games do we win with him on this team? 1-3 maybe. We're still out of the playoff race. It can both be true that Renfroe wasn't saving this team and it was a bad move to trade him though. Also, he's battled a few (minor) injuries this year, and will probably end up playing in about 37 less games this year.

 

I get it the Sox suck, and I suppose the natural response to that is to project that anger out into everything and every move. Leave no stone unturned!!! it's a good thing teams aren't run like that.

 

It’s the whole sum of the team that went to the postseason last year that Bloom tinkered with this year like JBJ for Renfroe, and not resigning Schwarber that made the team worse off, and not just how much Renfroe would have made a difference this year.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, I don't remember ever thinking Renfroe wasn't going to be worth the money, I was skeptical he could duplicate a career year but I didn't think he was going to be bad. There seems to be some revisionist history going on there. But people keep on talking about Renfroe like he would have been the savior of this team. REALLY? he and his .825 OPS is good but not elite by any means. Especially for a corner outfielder. His value is tied to his power which is nice, but how many more games do we win with him on this team? 1-3 maybe. We're still out of the playoff race. It can both be true that Renfroe wasn't saving this team and it was a bad move to trade him though. Also, he's battled a few (minor) injuries this year, and will probably end up playing in about 37 less games this year.

 

I get it the Sox suck, and I suppose the natural response to that is to project that anger out into everything and every move. Leave no stone unturned!!! it's a good thing teams aren't run like that.

 

I don't remember people saying Renfroe would not earn his arb check, but some did say thing like "selling high" on him.

 

I'm still scratching my head on that trade, and the prospect end of the deal is still unknown, but we ended up adding money and getting worse on the big club. The topic has been beaten to death, so I'll leave it at that.

[Hugh2]

It’s the whole sum of the team that went to the postseason last year that Bloom tinkered with this year like JBJ for Renfroe, and not resigning Schwarber that made the team worse off, and not just how much Renfroe would have made a difference this year.

 

Schwarber had no place on this team. He's a DH/LF the one thing this team has plenty off. Renfroe is the one trade everyone seem to be on board with being a mistake. I suppose in hindsight you could have traded JDM and let Kyle take his place, but even then....how many more games do you win by adding .04 to your DH spot? At some point a logical conversation takes you to injury derailing this team. Because with a clean bill of health Story more than replaces Hunters bat.

[Bellhorn04]

Agree 100%. I don’t like $300M+ contracts, but on the other hand I could care less if JH had to shell out $500M for payroll. I don’t know why some worry about JH money. I sure JH doesn’t worry when any fan shells out big money for a ticket.

 

Come on, man. We've been over this so many times. Nobody here worries about JH's money. It's just we know he does have a budget/limit/cap/whatever, and we worry about how it's spent.